Should we Legalize marijuana?

[poollshark]

You will not change my mind, not ever. My opinion is the result of my personal family experiences. If you want to know what those are, PM me. I have been asked not to say them in public here on MT again and I understand the reasoning. Let's call my experiences 'intense' and leave it at that.

Okay.

To me, you're just a guy with a Bible tract at my front door. Not now, not ever, keep steppin', brother.

Don't think I've ever been compared quite like that before....lol

Sorry, you're wasting your time trying to convince me. But thank you for the 'educated' and 'reasonable' comments; may I say likewise. But educated and reasonable people can disagree.

Yes they can.

Let me just leave you with some food for thought as this reminded me of an old proverb one of my professor's used to constantly quote:

“A wise man changes his mind, a fool never will”

I understand personal experiences can have a strong effect on a persons opinion. Agreeing to disagree here seems to be our only option.

Have a great day Mr. Mattocks

 

[MJS]

Some states, the one I live in being one of them, are currently working on making possession, a lesser offense, depending on how much you have. So before, you'd probably get hauled in, possibly sent to jail, etc, whereas now its an infraction.

Do I think it should be made legal? Honestly, I could care less. I dont use it, never have, and never will. If its made legal, just like alcohol, then treat it just like that, meaning taxes, you have to be a certain age, and if you get caught for a DUI, then the same charges apply.

 

[Omar B]

No, I do not. I also do not have any personal desire to do so. I do have a personal desire to stop people from smoking pot.
Not my morality - my will. I see nothing inherently immoral about smoking pot. I just don't want anyone to be allowed to do it.

And there is the impasse. He wishes to choose for all.

 

[Sensei Payne]

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92273
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92719
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93793

Come on guys. This has been worked to death. Just read the other threads and save us all from rehashing exactly the same posts. After many posts, and a lot of hand wringing, it always boils down to some people just not liking it, and logic be damned. Nothing wrong with that, but it makes for hurt feelings, and unnecessary amounts of conflict.

PS EDIT: I am for legalizing pot, and that's how I vote when it comes up on a ballot.

There could be new members with new input this time around so its always good to get several sides of the issues as time goes on...with any topic, it evolves and changes with time.

As for Pot being legal...yeah it really should be. I have never heard of a pot head being violent...pot mixed with other drugs, perhaps, but not just pot.

It would free up our prison systems and make room for the real criminals, like Theives, Rapists and Murders.

Of course taxing it would also help clear up our deficets in this country, and pot such an untapped resourse.

As for personal opinions on the matter...everyone is entitled to there opinion of course, which is why I belive the pot issues should be hadled at state level, and not federal. If you don't like your states laws..its a whole lot easier to change laws at the state level than it is at the federal one, and the states will be able to change the laws as the people see fit. This in turn frees up our federal government to work on REAL issues like the Economy, Health Care, and Forgien Affairs.

All in all if you are a constitutionalist or a libritarian, or even one of those Tea Partier, you be default shouldn't be aginst legalizing it. It only seems to be those of the two party system that doesn't want the legalization to pass. Although there are a few exceptions.

The people should be able to choose how to live there lives and what to put in there bodies, as long as they are informed on the product they are intaking into there body.
For example: if you wanna eat Mcdonalds everyday, you should be well informed of the nutritian value of what you are eating and be informed that...you will get fat, and in turn be responsible for yourself. Information is key here, not conjecture or opinion, but science.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

And there is the impasse. He wishes to choose for all.

Everybody does. However, I realize I have only the authority of one vote. As it turns out, at the moment, the people who think like I do have the majority (a slight one, and slipping) and thus our will is law in many states. When that balance changes, then the laws will as well. Then you will decide 'for all'. This is how it works.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

As for Pot being legal...yeah it really should be. I have never heard of a pot head being violent...pot mixed with other drugs, perhaps, but not just pot.

Violence or lack therefore is no reason to make a substance legal or illegal.

It would free up our prison systems and make room for the real criminals, like Theives, Rapists and Murders.

Invalid logic, as I've already pointed out in this thread. We'd be able to 'free up our prison system' if we let child molesters out. Some people we want to be in prison.

Of course taxing it would also help clear up our deficets in this country, and pot such an untapped resourse.

So is sex trafficking and black market cigarettes. The fact that a market exists is no reason to legalize it. We can tax lots of things that are illegal and most of us wish to remain illegal.

As for personal opinions on the matter...everyone is entitled to there opinion of course, which is why I belive the pot issues should be hadled at state level, and not federal. If you don't like your states laws..its a whole lot easier to change laws at the state level than it is at the federal one, and the states will be able to change the laws as the people see fit. This in turn frees up our federal government to work on REAL issues like the Economy, Health Care, and Forgien Affairs.

I tend to agree with you on this issue, believe it or not.

All in all if you are a constitutionalist or a libritarian, or even one of those Tea Partier, you be default shouldn't be aginst legalizing it. It only seems to be those of the two party system that doesn't want the legalization to pass. Although there are a few exceptions.

When I left the Republican Party, I joined the Libertarian Party. I left because I could not reconcile myself to two major planks. One was drug legalization - all drugs - and the other was a policy of national isolationism. Could not agree with either one. Now I'm an independent conservative (or 'liberal' if you ask Twin Fist).

The people should be able to choose how to live there lives and what to put in there bodies, as long as they are informed on the product they are intaking into there body.
For example: if you wanna eat Mcdonalds everyday, you should be well informed of the nutritian value of what you are eating and be informed that...you will get fat, and in turn be responsible for yourself. Information is key here, not conjecture or opinion, but science.

Those who make this argument are seldom willing to agree that heroin should be legalized, and yet it is the same logic. So unless you think that everyone should be free to smoke crack and drop acid and snort coke and shoot heroin, that is also invalid logic.

I agree with you about state's rights. I agree with you that everyone has a right to their opinion. I disagree with you about your flat statement that pot is harmless - you don't know that and can't prove it, and the rest of your logic is invalid for reasons mentioned. In the end, you have an opinion unsupported by facts; as do I.

 

[Sensei Payne]

Violence or lack therefore is no reason to make a substance legal or illegal.

If it doesn't hurt anyone, besides the user, knowingly using the substance, then why not make it legal. Its there body they can do what they want with it. Any other crime commited while on the substance, is completely seperate.

Invalid logic, as I've already pointed out in this thread. We'd be able to 'free up our prison system' if we let child molesters out. Some people we want to be in prison.

Child molesters actually hurt people, a majority of pot smokers, do not.

So is sex trafficking and black market cigarettes. The fact that a market exists is no reason to legalize it. We can tax lots of things that are illegal and most of us wish to remain illegal.

Sex trafficking is illegal because it hurts people. Personally I think prostatution should be legal, but thats a different story and argument, as long as they "workers" are working on there own free will.

Black market cigs...honestly I don't really know what you mean by that. Homemade maybe?

As for personal opinions on the matter...everyone is entitled to there opinion of course, which is why I belive the pot issues should be hadled at state level, and not federal. If you don't like your states laws..its a whole lot easier to change laws at the state level than it is at the federal one, and the states will be able to change the laws as the people see fit. This in turn frees up our federal government to work on REAL issues like the Economy, Health Care, and Forgien Affairs.

I tend to agree with you on this issue, believe it or not.

Awesome

Those who make this argument are seldom willing to agree that heroin should be legalized, and yet it is the same logic. So unless you think that everyone should be free to smoke crack and drop acid and snort coke and shoot heroin, that is also invalid logic.

My logic is VERY valid..because I don't belive in making ANY drugs illegal. Would I do them, no, do I think that people should get help for addictions, yes. But do I think that every person is responsible for themselves, of course I do. You just shouldn't be able to come whining to big brothe when your broke and sick from abusing your body. Per the constitution, as long as the user isn't hurting anyone, but themselves...they have the right to do as they wish, all other crimes would be handled seperately as they are seperate. Drugs don't commit crimes, people do.

I agree with you about state's rights. I agree with you that everyone has a right to their opinion. I disagree with you about your flat statement that pot is harmless - you don't know that and can't prove it, and the rest of your logic is invalid for reasons mentioned. In the end, you have an opinion unsupported by facts; as do I.

My girlfriends mother is a Cancer research scientist. She tells me that pot eases the symptoms of someone dying of cancer. Among other Illnesses, such as Chrone's desise, Arthritis, Irritable Bowel syndrom, Anxity, and depression. Pot is a fantastic substance for those people, and thats just the tip of the Iceburg.

I will agree with you that there needs to be more research done on the subject. Of course if thats what you meant about opinions unsupported with facts. More research is always good, because it really won't hurt anyone...besides of course, the generation that belives in refer madness..lol...they might be a bit freaked out, because I can almost garentee you, the more research we do, the more were going to find out that Mary-J really isn't that bad after all.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Not making an argument for or against here, but I am against it because as I said I am not a big Bob Marley fan and I don't like Hostess Twinkies, but the following statement is a bit silly

If it doesn't hurt anyone, besides the user, knowingly using the substance, then why not make it legal.

Not sure where you live or what your state laws are but there is a little thing called Driving While Ability Impaired (DWAI) in my state which people can get arrested for if they have been smoking Marijuana and if they are being the wheel of a car they can potentially hurt a whole lot of people, much the same as a person who has an alcoholic beverage (which I realize is legal) can hurt and kill people while Driving While Intoxicated (DWI). Now I ma guessing, and this is only a guess, If you legalize Marijuana the charge would change from a DWAI to a DWI.

Now let’s talk Cigarettes. Second hand smoke has been proven to be rather bad for anyone nearby that happens to inhale it and doubly so for children. And I doubt second hand smoke from Marijuana is much safer.

So you are correct that it doesn't hurt anyone, besides the user, knowingly using the substance just as long as the user stays in a room away from everyone and does not drive or attempt to operate any sort of machinery.

Legal or not it has the same potential to hurt others who want absolutely nothing to do with it just like alcohol and cigarettes do right now

Basically basing part of your justification for legalization on the statement “it doesn't hurt anyone, besides the user, knowingly using the substance” when it most certainly can hurt others, and has in my state, just the same as alcohol and Cigarettes can and do is at best flawed

 

[Xue Sheng]

.

As to that cartoon

Alcohol = Violence, Rape, Stupidity = Harmless and Legal
Weed = relaxed, excessive laughing, hunger = dangerous and Illegal

it is flat out wrong in one area and missing a few bits in another

And I do not think anyone is trying to say alcohol is harmless

So to the cartoon let me fix that for you

Alcohol = Violence, Rape, Stupidity = Dangerous and Legal
Weed = relaxed, excessive laughing, hunger, stupidity = Dangerous and Illegal

Folks I do not want to drive on a road or train in an MA school with anyone who is drunk anymore than I want to drive on a road or train in an MA studio with anyone who is high. They are both potentially dangerous situation. I don’t want to sit in a room with a Cigarette smoke and breath second hand smoke anymore than I want to sit in a room with some one who is smoking “weed” and breath their second hand smoke, either way it just is not good for you

 

[Bill Mattocks]

If it doesn't hurt anyone, besides the user, knowingly using the substance, then why not make it legal. Its there body they can do what they want with it. Any other crime commited while on the substance, is completely seperate.

I'm sorry, that's your opinion that it doesn't hurt anyone.

And again, if the logic is valid, then the same can be said for heroin and meth and so on. The people who make this argument never want to answer that question.

Child molesters actually hurt people, a majority of pot smokers, do not.

Again, your opinion. And we also put people in prison who do not 'hurt people' such as white collar criminals, those who traffic in other controlled substances such as heroin, and so on. The logic is not valid. Just because a person doesn't 'hurt anyone' is not a logical reason the substance they use should be legal.

Sex trafficking is illegal because it hurts people. Personally I think prostatution should be legal, but thats a different story and argument, as long as they "workers" are working on there own free will.

You discount the damage done to the fabric of society as if society could withstand every assault on it. If this were the case, it should be perfectly legal to copulate in the streets. It hurts no one, it's their own free will, etc, etc. There are many things which are illegal and we want them to remain that way, even though they 'hurt no one'. I'm sorry, it is not a logical reason.

Black market cigs...honestly I don't really know what you mean by that. Homemade maybe?

Sorry, not everyone has a law-enforcement background. Yes, black market cigarettes, but not homemade. When a pack of smokes costs $4 in NC and $11 in NYC, there is a thriving market for them and people transport them by the truckloads from one place to another. My point is that if the economic profit motive is a logical reason to legalize pot, then so is the government getting involved in cigarette smuggling between states. They could make a bundle.

My logic is VERY valid..because I don't belive in making ANY drugs illegal. Would I do them, no, do I think that people should get help for addictions, yes. But do I think that every person is responsible for themselves, of course I do. You just shouldn't be able to come whining to big brothe when your broke and sick from abusing your body. Per the constitution, as long as the user isn't hurting anyone, but themselves...they have the right to do as they wish, all other crimes would be handled seperately as they are seperate. Drugs don't commit crimes, people do.

We disagree. And most people who are for the legalization of pot are not for the legalization of 'harder' drugs as you are. The Libertarian Party itself, which is the strongest proponent of legalizing all drugs, is a scan few percentage of the entire population. You're in the distinct minority.

My girlfriends mother is a Cancer research scientist. She tells me that pot eases the symptoms of someone dying of cancer. Among other Illnesses, such as Chrone's desise, Arthritis, Irritable Bowel syndrom, Anxity, and depression. Pot is a fantastic substance for those people, and thats just the tip of the Iceburg.

I'm sure it is. So is Morphine. Can you buy morphine legally on the street without a prescription? I have no problems with actual medical marijuana. I do have problems with so-called 'medical' marijuana which is just a ruse to cover recreational use, as it is in California.

I will agree with you that there needs to be more research done on the subject. Of course if thats what you meant about opinions unsupported with facts. More research is always good, because it really won't hurt anyone...besides of course, the generation that belives in refer madness..lol...they might be a bit freaked out, because I can almost garentee you, the more research we do, the more were going to find out that Mary-J really isn't that bad after all.

I don't care if pot is a 'bad thing' or not. Research is great - I'm sure there are many medical uses for pot, and low-THC hemp should be raised as a cash crop like cotton. Beyond that, I want it to remain illegal for recreational use.

 

[Steve]

There could be new members with new input this time around so its always good to get several sides of the issues as time goes on...with any topic, it evolves and changes with time.

As for Pot being legal...yeah it really should be. I have never heard of a pot head being violent...pot mixed with other drugs, perhaps, but not just pot.

It would free up our prison systems and make room for the real criminals, like Theives, Rapists and Murders.

Of course taxing it would also help clear up our deficets in this country, and pot such an untapped resourse.

As for personal opinions on the matter...everyone is entitled to there opinion of course, which is why I belive the pot issues should be hadled at state level, and not federal. If you don't like your states laws..its a whole lot easier to change laws at the state level than it is at the federal one, and the states will be able to change the laws as the people see fit. This in turn frees up our federal government to work on REAL issues like the Economy, Health Care, and Forgien Affairs.

All in all if you are a constitutionalist or a libritarian, or even one of those Tea Partier, you be default shouldn't be aginst legalizing it. It only seems to be those of the two party system that doesn't want the legalization to pass. Although there are a few exceptions.

The people should be able to choose how to live there lives and what to put in there bodies, as long as they are informed on the product they are intaking into there body.
For example: if you wanna eat Mcdonalds everyday, you should be well informed of the nutritian value of what you are eating and be informed that...you will get fat, and in turn be responsible for yourself. Information is key here, not conjecture or opinion, but science.

Then let me just recommend that everyone who has not already done so, read the three previous threads. There's a lot of background, and frankly, I'm not going to rewrite everything I took the time to contribute before. My position hasn't changed.

 

[Big Don]

It's amazing how so many of the proponents of so called medical marijuana and/or wholesale legalization are the same pot head dip ***** we all knew in high school...

 

[MJS]

If it doesn't hurt anyone, besides the user, knowingly using the substance, then why not make it legal. Its there body they can do what they want with it. Any other crime commited while on the substance, is completely seperate.

This is what I said in my first post. If its made legal, then it should be treated the same as alcohol. In other words, if you're so under the influence that your driving is seriously impared, then your *** gets locked up.

My logic is VERY valid..because I don't belive in making ANY drugs illegal. Would I do them, no, do I think that people should get help for addictions, yes. But do I think that every person is responsible for themselves, of course I do. You just shouldn't be able to come whining to big brothe when your broke and sick from abusing your body. Per the constitution, as long as the user isn't hurting anyone, but themselves...they have the right to do as they wish, all other crimes would be handled seperately as they are seperate. Drugs don't commit crimes, people do.

Well, you hit the nail on the head when you talked about responsibility. See, thats the problem....if I had to wager a guess, I'd say there will probably be more irresponsible people, than resonsible. Why? Because people can't seem to control intake.

Something else thats interesting....I havent heard of any criminal cases, in which an alcoholic robs people so he can buy a bottle, yet we here about lots of crimes in which people rob and steal so they can get their next fix.

Like I said, I dont do drugs...never have, never will. If the powers to be, decide to make it legal, then those powers need to be ready to accept the end results.

 

[Steve]

It's amazing how so many of the proponents of so called medical marijuana and/or wholesale legalization are the same pot head dip ***** we all knew in high school...

Are they? Sounds like you're talking out your *** to me.

 

[CanuckMA]

Now I'm an independent conservative (or 'liberal' if you ask Twin Fist).

Let's be fait. According to TF, Genghis Khan was a liberal. :lfao:

 

[Ken Morgan]

Hemp should be legal, it means we can make high grade paper without cutting down trees, and farmers get another cash crop to bring to market.

Marijuana should be decriminalized then strongly regulated and controlled. You don’t see many people growing their own tobacco or having stills set up in the backyard, because they can get what they need/want for a reasonable price. It just isn’t worth the hassle or the work.

 

[CanuckMA]

People keep comparing weed to alcohol. There are 2 major differences.

Injesting alcohol does not have a spill over effect on other people in the room. Smoke does.

There are road side tests for alcohol available to LEO, none for weed.

 

[MJS]

People keep comparing weed to alcohol. There are 2 major differences.

Injesting alcohol does not have a spill over effect on other people in the room. Smoke does.

Yes, that is true. Since I was one that was making the reference....my point was simply, that indirectly, it will have an effect on others. Just because I wont get drunk simply be sitting next to someone who's drinking, vs. sitting next to someone smoking, ie: 2nd hand smoke, doesnt mean that either alcohol or weed is better/worse than the other.

There are road side tests for alcohol available to LEO, none for weed.

Since I dont smoke or drink, let me ask you this....if someone were to spend 2hrs smoking weed, and then get behind the wheel, and get pulled over, would the officer, if they performed a field test, similar to one to determine whether or not someone is drunk, be able to tell whether or not someone was capable of driving?

 

[Sensei Payne]

People are smoking pot anyways...

how do they test and see if people having been smoking now?

How many times do you hear on the news that Pot was involved with that high speed chase last night?

How many times do you hear. "Two men kill each other in a fist fight, Marijuana was involved."

NEVER!

Its always booze.

 

[MJS]

People are smoking pot anyways...

how do they test and see if people having been smoking now?

How many times do you hear on the news that Pot was involved with that high speed chase last night?

How many times do you hear. "Two men kill each other in a fist fight, Marijuana was involved."

NEVER!

Its always booze.

http://www.sandiegopersonalinjurybl...r-influence-of-marijuana-causes-13-accidents/

http://www.californiaduiinjurylawye...luence-of-marijuana-in-highway-299-crash.html

http://seriousaccidents.com/blog/dr...ana-driver-allegedly-caused-13-car-accidents/

http://www.pennsylvaniapersonalinjuryblog.com/2010/12/fatal_tractortrailer_accident.html

Amazing what a simple google search turns up. As for the fighting....there are always turf wars over drugs. As for how they test....dont know, thats why I'm asking.