Short form three

[KenpoGirl]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
I, myself, damn near quit because of Short 3...and hell, now it's too late.

Why's that? I thought Short 3 was one of the easier ones because you already know the majority of the tech's it just putting them all together?

I appreciate everyones input.

Dot
:asian:

 

[rmcrobertson]

It would seem so, wouldn't it?

 

[Michael Billings]

When some of those techniques are left side (when you do the form on the right) and the variety of angles of attack.

Learn it. Then the left side. Then try facing different walls when you do it (or any other form), now try facing the corner; It gets better when you take the form out to the park and try to do it. Face different directions, distractions, etc.

It really is a great form, and wins tournaments if you do finger set 1 then go into Short #3. Who knows, you could test at a camp someday ... a real camp, outdoors, with other classes going on around you. This would certainly help get you ready for that.

Have fun with it, do it slow, do it fast, do it with a partner, do it solo, do it with your eyes closed. Wheeeeeee!!!!!!!!

 

[michaeledward]

Are you sure you are still talking about Short Form 3? I'm not sure if that is a Nike commercial, or an insightment to 'Adult Behavior'.

For the record .... I really like SF3 myself. It is the first 'Short Form' that actually seems short, it was quick to learn, and when performing it, it seems to end quite quick as well. Seems to me that Short Form 2 took for ever to learn .. and everytime I run it, it just keeps going .. and going.

Peace

Mike

 

[Michael Billings]

What happens by Short 3, is that you have learned how to learn Kenpo. Both the techniques and forms seem easier at that level. I have watched it with my students time and time again. Your repetoire is now sufficient not to be learning new Basics, or even Sentences of Motion. You can now articulate entire Paragraphs of Motion if not Short stories. And you are not printing any longer, but writing in cursive.

Lots of factors go into why this "feels" shorter, or at least easier. Familiarity with most of the techniques is not the least of it.

Oss

 

[kenpo2dabone]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Uh...weighing in late...above all, bend your knees and get your tootsies turned in, weight on the outside edges of the feet...

Part of your problem with this form, as you stated that it has been difficult for you, might be that you are putting your weight on the outside edges of your feet. It is a common misconception to do so. Students are taught the horse stance which rquires your bum to be tucked under and your knees pushed out over you pinky toes and your feet pointing straight forward. this stance is designed specifically as a training stance to isolate you lower body from your upper body. When you learn you nuetral bow it seems natural to do the same thing. You end up basically taking your horse stance and turning it to the side. You should really feel like you are in starting blocks getting ready to run the 100 yard dash. Your knees should actually be pushed together slightly as in over your big toes and not your pinky toes making you weight feel more like it is on the inside of your feet rather than the outside. Ask your instructor about it. I would be surprised if he/she tells you differently or I can try and be more clear if you wish. Good luck with your training. Depending on the respons I get to this maybe I will start a new thread.

Respectfully,
Salute,

Mike Miller UKF

 

[rmcrobertson]

Mike:

Nope. 'Fraid you've got that backwards. Among other things, observe the "first move," in the form. While it's important not to exaggerate--and that takes some time--it will be difficult to execute the two punches with the weight on the insides of the feet. In fact, this is likely to require adding the dreaded, "and" which in this case would mean stepping forward and then rolling the weight forwards...

Or look at the pivot into a forward bow in Crashing Wings...weight on the inside? Not a great idea, if we examine the most-straightforward application and have a guy dropping onto our left knee...then, look at Circling Wing's reverse bow...weight on the inside of the feet? look at Crossing Talon...

Throughout Short 3, keeping the weight on the insides of the feet would wipe out a bracing angle, put too much weight on a knee...and make movement much more difficult...as far as I can see.

I might also add that this would wipe out the difference marked by the "inverted," stances in Long 4 and Long 5, where the weight is shifted to the insides of the feet in order to assist in keeping an opponent on the ground pinned...

Thanks, but from what I can see, I think you're wrong about this one. And as for the horse stance, "isolating," the upper from the lower body...again, no. I was taught, and I teach, that the point is to connect the two...especially with guys, who like karate from the waist up...and, I'm afraid, I think it would be best to start students out trying to make such a connection, such a fusion...kenpo, like all good martial arts, needs to be taught from the ground up.

I agree that eventually the neutral bow should be modified, resembling somewhat the "starter's blocks," idea. But this is very different from learning a form...and, sprinters don't start with their weight on the insides of their feet.

 

[kenpo2dabone]

I have to say that I am very much of the opposite oppinion on this subject from you. I have to tell you that I do all of the techniques that you mentioned as well as the forms using the the neutral bow as I described it and have no problems what so ever. I am not trying to tell you that the way you do it is wrong or anything like that. I posted a new thread on the forum with regard to this matter because I am so curious to see what other people are doing. I was utterly surprised to read that you and I have practicaly polar opposit ways of doing the same stance and we are both Kenpo practitioners and we are both in the advanced belt levels. Well I guess I am assuming that you are at or around the brown or black belt level because you made reference to forms 4 and 5. I learned form 4 as part of my Black belt requirements and 5 for my second degree. I have recently learned form 6 as well. I referenced this thread on the new thread that I started for people to come and read if they want.


Salute,

 

[rmcrobertson]

Uh... try dropping somebody big on your knee with your knees in and your weight on the inside of your feet...or on second thought, really really don't do that.

I don't quite know what to tell you about this. I did look it up, as I mentioned in the other thread you started. I agree with the modification of stances as you advance, but...

I really kinda hate the status game, but uh...well...since you mentioned it, I'm a little further along (not much), and I train at Larry Tatum's in Pasadena.

 

[kenpo2dabone]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Uh... try dropping somebody big on your knee with your knees in and your weight on the inside of your feet...or on second thought, really really don't do that.

I have and I don't have any problems. Such as in Back Breaker. I would be willing to bet that if we took pictures of ourseleves in our neutral bows they would not look much different. They would just feel a little different. You might be picturing the stance the way that I do it in an exagerated fashion. It is not as if I trying to touch my knees together. It is simply that as I let my weight settle into the stance my knees tend to go more twords my big toe versus my pinky toes. Vice versa as well, I might be picturing you over exagerating the way that you do it.

I don't quite know what to tell you about this. I did look it up, as I mentioned in the other thread you started. I agree with the modification of stances as you advance, but... [/B]

There is no need to tell me anything it is just making for a good thread I think.

I really kinda hate the status game, but uh...well...since you mentioned it, I'm a little further along (not much), and I train at Larry Tatum's in Pasadena. [/B]

I was not trying to play a status game at all. I was merely getting to the point that we are both in similar places in our Kenpo Journey as far as rank goes and how I came to that conclusion was based on the forms you mentioned and when I learned them with relation to rank.

Salute,
Mike Miller UKF

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Well, I gotta go with what Robert said, I'm of the same understanding anyway. BTW Robert, fill in your profile so there's no guessing game LOL.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
How much do you practice outside of the studio? Or how much time do you spend in the studio? You are learning things at a high pace especially this upper level stuff. Learn the material 1 x 1, get it down, practice it until it becomes second nature and then move onto more stuff. As for short 3 make sure your transitions are smooth, take your time while doing it.

Geez, would ya quit stealin' my training secrets, and then claiming them to be yours.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by RCastillo
Geez, would ya quit stealin' my training secrets, and then claiming them to be yours.

That's how I've practiced M.A. for 14 yrs.:asian: