Shoppers stepped over victim

[Brian King]

Ceicei wrote

“Why would this stop anyone (other than emt) from rendering help?”

There are well known phenomenon regarding the way that people think and react while in a mob or crowd state. People usually good natured and reliable can show and give in to other instincts. Often people will assume that others are handling the situation or they wait for somebody else to take charge and give orders. The waiting is contagious and soon the very air and tensions prevent people from stepping forward. Another factor that can be assumed is that some people get paralyzed by analysis. They get so caught up and then frozen in a thought loop that they never react to a changing situation. There are other situations when the crowd can keep others from helping with threats and hostile actions. One of the shootings up here during the Fourth of July celebrations gives an example of this
http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/washington/stories/NW_070507WAB_skyway_shooting_LJ.45873242.html
from the above article

“According to a news release from Dave Nelson of Fire District 20, the crowd was so hostile and threatening that firefighters and paramedics took the man to an undisclosed location to try to revive him. Their efforts at cardiopulmonary resuscitation failed, and he was pronounced dead soon afterward.”

This kind of stuff is important to understand so that God forbid you or yours are ever in a situation where action is needed you know how to get the crowd to ‘help’. One of the best ways is to make eye contact with one person and point at them and give them something easy to do, “Loan me your coat, call 911, get some water, ” type of commands then the next and the next. Ask if anybody knows CPR. Often people will assume somebody else knows it better, after all it has been years, but if you can get somebody to step forward and help that gets others to also want to help and you will not be doing it yourself. CPR is hard work and it helps to be able to work as a team.

Exile wrote

“Well, we have a clear difference of opinion here!

I'd much prefer it if Cory were right (I suspect Brian would as well )... but I'm not at all sure what the answer is here (or even whether we're asking the right question)...”

I remember slightly a story out of New York a few years ago about a man suffering some kind of seizure and falling onto the subway tracks in the path of an approaching train and a stranger (a father I believe) jumping down and covering and protecting the stranger with his own body. This made national news to the point of the man being pointed out and recognized for his bravery and willingness to help and sacrifice by President Bush during a speech. I read and heard about this incident and wondered if I would have done the same and frankly I doubt it (I am a little big for trains to be passing over LOL). This makes me marvel at the grace of this man willing to sacrifice so much for a stranger in those circumstances. I read about others reacting in horror at the news of people stepping over the victim, up here we have had people run over by multiple cars with none stopping, others walk by people injured and hurt and just make space on the sidewalk so they do not get any of the yuck on their shoes or clothing. People can justify actions and sleep at night no matter how their actions or inactions affected themselves or those around them. I wonder how many of the ‘thousands’ that have seen this report and been horrified by it are actually reacting to the questions they are asking of them selves and their friends and perhaps equally reacting to the perhaps unspoken answers. I am suspect mainly because the anger and horror makes me think that excessive anger and horror often act as cover for other feelings not so easily expressed.

Some questions I think people are asking as they place themselves in the place of both the victim and the crowd of witnesses are how would I feel if it was me lying in my blood and people were stepping over me, and would I react the same and not render aid to a fellow human in need and bleeding at my feet?

I think perhaps some better questions and lessons from this reported event might be

• If I am stabbed or otherwise wounded or injured, what can I do to minimize the bleeding and shock until the fight is over and until help arrives or I get to somewhere safe?
• If I am injured or near a injured person(s), how can I best get people around me to notice and to render aid, or if a hostile crowd keep them from hindering help?

These I think are good questions that can help our study of martial arts. The questions on human nature are also good questions to help us explore and understand our own instincts and feelings. As to preferring this or that I do not. I believe that we are here to experience things and that God has plans and I am not wise enough to understand why certain things are. They just are and I except it and continue try to learn about my self.

Brian King

 

[Sukerkin]

Sorry, Brian the Rep Gnomes bar me from giving you a little 'fillip' for the above - that is an excellent, well thought out, post. Consider this an IOU until such time as you're off my rep stack once more :tup:.

 

[Ceicei]

Thank you, Brian, for answering my question. That was very, very well reasoned and you have brought up points that people may have vaguely wondered but didn't have the words to express. Thank you.

- Ceicei

 

[MA-Caver]

Great post Brian. One of the key things learned at the First Responder class I attended was that it was important to not only secure the scene but to literally point out someone and TELL them to call 911 or do whatever it is that you need them to do if everyone else is acting like sheep or staring like cows at a passing train.
There is the outside (very slim) chance you'll get the type of person that'll respond back: "You can't tell ME what to do!" If that happens then find someone else. If you're the victim then at least you'll lay on a good coat of guilt when they get home and read about you in the papers.

 

[Mr. E]

If the person taking the picture was a local "Known" affiliate then I could see people trying to wait to give aid until this person left so as to not be the next target. Terrorism and fear are horrible things to live with.

I had not thought of that possibility. We do not know is the guy taking the picture was wearing something that let others know he was in a gang.

But still the idea of stepping over someone in this case bothers me. If they were scared of being targetted by the gang member, why not just run? Out of range they could have called the police. Someone might have done just that. But five people stepped over a dying woman. As Brian wrote, they may have thought someone else had already taken care of calling the police, but to step over someone who has been stabbed?