um yeah... what he said.
Sexual Orientation is Biologically Determined?
- Thread starter arnisador
- Start date
Cruentus
Grandmaster
O.K....2 things Kaith....VERY IMPORTANT HERE!
Now come on dude...EVERYONE knows that 2 girls is hot, and 2 guys is gross. And...5 girls + me =
artyon:
2ndly:
O.K.....2 things...well...3. 1. Where are these women now, 2. Are they hot 3. If #1 the answer is nearby and #2 the answer is yes, then are they available to come over my house for the evening?
*SMACK!*
r54ti3wr5hehdafgshgsdtrwsy6t
*That was my Fiancee' smacking me on the back of my head, and then afoidgisaofaofdajodojdfaoj was my head bouncing around on the keyboard*
:rofl: :rofl:
Now come on dude...EVERYONE knows that 2 girls is hot, and 2 guys is gross. And...5 girls + me =
artyon: 2ndly:
O.K.....2 things...well...3. 1. Where are these women now, 2. Are they hot 3. If #1 the answer is nearby and #2 the answer is yes, then are they available to come over my house for the evening?
*SMACK!*
r54ti3wr5hehdafgshgsdtrwsy6t
*That was my Fiancee' smacking me on the back of my head, and then afoidgisaofaofdajodojdfaoj was my head bouncing around on the keyboard*
:rofl: :rofl:
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Ah yes, after reading the last two pages I see--it's all the fault of the famous Homosexual Hordes Who Deliberately Pass On the AIDS Virus.
Nothing like a good urban myth. A wet slap with a copy of, "Savage Nights," for that one.
As for some of the other stuff--a back issue of, "Representations," the one with Neil Hertz's, "Medusa's Head: Male Hysteria Under Political Pressure," and another wet slap.
And to all--a copy of, "And the Band Played On." The book, not the movie. The author essentially blames an unconscious, unholy alliance between Reagan's guys and some parts of the gay community (and there's a weird phrase--would Boy Scouts be, "the heterosexuaal community in training?") for the explosive spread of HIV in the 1980s...
Nothing like a good urban myth. A wet slap with a copy of, "Savage Nights," for that one.
As for some of the other stuff--a back issue of, "Representations," the one with Neil Hertz's, "Medusa's Head: Male Hysteria Under Political Pressure," and another wet slap.
And to all--a copy of, "And the Band Played On." The book, not the movie. The author essentially blames an unconscious, unholy alliance between Reagan's guys and some parts of the gay community (and there's a weird phrase--would Boy Scouts be, "the heterosexuaal community in training?") for the explosive spread of HIV in the 1980s...
Hi Robert, Thanks for this great lead in
:asian:
Arnisador, if this is too off topic, I apologize and ask for a split.
Everyone,
Please look back to the late 40's and early 50's when there was Polio and a vaccine was the medical push of the day. Multiple groups tried to create a vaccine, and one did succeed and their test and reports included test monkeys from africa and test subjects in the villages of Africa.
Yet, there were at least one other group that did not use healthy monkeys, they never thought anything could cross over. In these villages (* Yes Villages Plural *) where the Polio Vaccine was tested, has 100% AIDs and HIV infections. You can watch the spread from these towns and reported cases over time.
So, to make a comment about the homosexual community about AID's is all their fault, is outrageous. The fault lies in GREED! Someone wanted to be the first to make a Polio Vaccine.
Back to the subject
Like I said, those that openingly admit to being homosexual, that I have talked to all state that they were attracted to the same sex from the beginning. Oh they admit they, dated the opposite sex to check it out or to keep up an appearance, yet they were always attracted to the same sex. So, approaching this wiht an open mind and the cold hard facts of science. Using these people as my data points, I would have to say it is not a choice of lifestyle. If the environment was lethal to them then they might choose an alternative life style (* Hetrosexualality *) just to survive.
Regards
:asian:
Cruentus
Grandmaster
So you mean that AIDS wasn't started through an unholy conception between a Monkey and a Homosexual? :rofl:
That is about as mythical as the hordes of homosexuals trying to infect the populus with aids.
Sorry...I couldn't resist. I remember when that was the ongoing rumor for awhile.
What I do wonder about...and again, I don't think this is completely off topic, so I apoligize if it is but.....I wonder if there was any evidence that AIDS was more prevalent in the gay community ever? I was always TOLD that AIDS was mainly in the homosexual communities, but now it is in every community. Like it somehow crossed over. I never gave this any credence because I haven't seen the evidence, but in truth, I don't know either way.
Was there ANY evidence to support the rumor that AIDS was more prevelent among homosexuals at one time?
That is about as mythical as the hordes of homosexuals trying to infect the populus with aids.
Sorry...I couldn't resist. I remember when that was the ongoing rumor for awhile.
What I do wonder about...and again, I don't think this is completely off topic, so I apoligize if it is but.....I wonder if there was any evidence that AIDS was more prevalent in the gay community ever? I was always TOLD that AIDS was mainly in the homosexual communities, but now it is in every community. Like it somehow crossed over. I never gave this any credence because I haven't seen the evidence, but in truth, I don't know either way.
Was there ANY evidence to support the rumor that AIDS was more prevelent among homosexuals at one time?
M
MartialArtsChic
Guest
Back in my theater days I was talking to an old friend about whether a person was born gay or chose to be gay. Up to that point, I really hadn't come across any gay people and didn't know if it was a choice or not. He looked at me and said "I was born this way, do you think I want to be gay? I don't know anyone who would want to be gay"
He tried to deny it, even though he had known from the age of 12/13, he had girlfriends and all that in his college days, but he said it grossed him out to kiss them other then a peck on the cheek and he got tired of hiding it.
Lorrie
He tried to deny it, even though he had known from the age of 12/13, he had girlfriends and all that in his college days, but he said it grossed him out to kiss them other then a peck on the cheek and he got tired of hiding it.
Lorrie
Well this seems to indicate that it is biologically determined:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/2266135.stm
So does this:
http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm
These were easy to find. I'm surprised nobody brought them up yet.
Matt Barnes
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
Lorrie,
Your friend had a good point. Imagine growing up in a society where homosexual behavior was, until recently, outlawed in some states, where marriage between gays is illegal in most jurisdictions, where Gay bashers kill (Matthew Shepard case in point) and religious extremists celebrate such a murder (godhatesfags.com), where mainstream churches publicly renounce such a lifestyle. The Western history of homosexuality is one of persecution and murder of Gays. The laws found in Leviticus call for the killing of Homosexuals--imagine your friend turning to the Bible for comfort from his existential pain and running into THAT. Gays have been prevented from holding sensitive government jobs, have been denied security clearances, have been hounded, and put into jail. We talk about President Clinton's indiscretions with Monica...William Manchester reports how during World War II a Marine Sergeant Major was busted to private and sentenced to prison for fifty years for having oral sex with a Corpsman.
Fifty freakin' years.
Why in the Hell would anybody WANT to be Gay?
I was a terrible homophobe for years. When Rock Hudson (whom many thought was an icon of heterosexuality) got sick, I started asking myself why a man would desire another man. That led me to ask why I desired women. My sexual feelings for the opposite sex were deep rooted, and not an issue of "choice".
I came to the conclusion that it was largely biological in origin...and that there might even be variation within the variation. Human sexuality is complex, ridiculously so. Human heterosexuality alone has a huge range of expressions and fetishes (including transvestism...which is largely expressed in straight males).
I brought the issue of biological etiology in the thread on "Gay marriages, Matt. I gave several other sites as well. I'll paste it from the other thread. They are as follows:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...splay&DB=PubMed
That's about 177 Journal entries.
Here's a nice little slideshow:
http://campus.houghton.edu/orgs/psy.../homosexuality/
In the slide show we find the following:
Pillard et al. (1981, 1982) discovered that when male probands reported other gay and lesbian relatives, they usually came from the maternal side of the family. This seemingly lends support to the idea that homosexuality is heritable, and may be connected to a region on the X chromosome (Pattatucci, 1998).
Males (genetic XY) who are unable to utilize testosterone normally are feminized, as are male babies whose mothers were subject to high dosages of estrogen while pregnant.
This research is supported by the earlier conclusions of Meyer & Bahlburg (1993) who proposed that high concentrations of androgenic hormones are required during the period of sexual differentiation of the brain to masculinize the neural substrate relevant to sexual orientation and neurocognitive function.
And lastly, we find this:
The etiology of homosexuality remains unclear, but the current literature and the vast majority of scholars in this field state that one's sexual orientation is not a choice, that is, individuals no more choose to be homosexual than heterosexual.
---American Academy of Pediatrics
Committee on Adolescence
Took me a whopping five minutes to find those sites using Google.
Regards,
Steve
Your friend had a good point. Imagine growing up in a society where homosexual behavior was, until recently, outlawed in some states, where marriage between gays is illegal in most jurisdictions, where Gay bashers kill (Matthew Shepard case in point) and religious extremists celebrate such a murder (godhatesfags.com), where mainstream churches publicly renounce such a lifestyle. The Western history of homosexuality is one of persecution and murder of Gays. The laws found in Leviticus call for the killing of Homosexuals--imagine your friend turning to the Bible for comfort from his existential pain and running into THAT. Gays have been prevented from holding sensitive government jobs, have been denied security clearances, have been hounded, and put into jail. We talk about President Clinton's indiscretions with Monica...William Manchester reports how during World War II a Marine Sergeant Major was busted to private and sentenced to prison for fifty years for having oral sex with a Corpsman.
Fifty freakin' years.
Why in the Hell would anybody WANT to be Gay?
I was a terrible homophobe for years. When Rock Hudson (whom many thought was an icon of heterosexuality) got sick, I started asking myself why a man would desire another man. That led me to ask why I desired women. My sexual feelings for the opposite sex were deep rooted, and not an issue of "choice".
I came to the conclusion that it was largely biological in origin...and that there might even be variation within the variation. Human sexuality is complex, ridiculously so. Human heterosexuality alone has a huge range of expressions and fetishes (including transvestism...which is largely expressed in straight males).
I brought the issue of biological etiology in the thread on "Gay marriages, Matt. I gave several other sites as well. I'll paste it from the other thread. They are as follows:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...splay&DB=PubMed
That's about 177 Journal entries.
Here's a nice little slideshow:
http://campus.houghton.edu/orgs/psy.../homosexuality/
In the slide show we find the following:
Pillard et al. (1981, 1982) discovered that when male probands reported other gay and lesbian relatives, they usually came from the maternal side of the family. This seemingly lends support to the idea that homosexuality is heritable, and may be connected to a region on the X chromosome (Pattatucci, 1998).
Males (genetic XY) who are unable to utilize testosterone normally are feminized, as are male babies whose mothers were subject to high dosages of estrogen while pregnant.
This research is supported by the earlier conclusions of Meyer & Bahlburg (1993) who proposed that high concentrations of androgenic hormones are required during the period of sexual differentiation of the brain to masculinize the neural substrate relevant to sexual orientation and neurocognitive function.
And lastly, we find this:
The etiology of homosexuality remains unclear, but the current literature and the vast majority of scholars in this field state that one's sexual orientation is not a choice, that is, individuals no more choose to be homosexual than heterosexual.
---American Academy of Pediatrics
Committee on Adolescence
Took me a whopping five minutes to find those sites using Google.
Regards,
Steve
OP
- Thread Starter
- #92
I was once asked--rhetorically--when I decided to "give in" to the homosexual agenda that maintained that homosexuality was not a choice but rather was inborn and/or determined at a young age.
I replied that I gave in when the weight of scientific evidence supporting that point of view, and refuting the point of view that it was a matter of choice, become so crushing that I simply could not, as a scientist, maintain any other position.
It's quite well-accepted by researchers at this point that homosexuality is largely determined by some combination of genetics and influences acting at an early age and that sexual orientation almost always becomes "set" before puberty.
I replied that I gave in when the weight of scientific evidence supporting that point of view, and refuting the point of view that it was a matter of choice, become so crushing that I simply could not, as a scientist, maintain any other position.
It's quite well-accepted by researchers at this point that homosexuality is largely determined by some combination of genetics and influences acting at an early age and that sexual orientation almost always becomes "set" before puberty.
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
From what I read, the development takes place in utero, while the fetus is developing. But then, development is on going, so I suppose it could be a long and involved process.
Steve
Steve
M
MartialArtsChic
Guest
He's one of those people who you could ask anything to and he would answer. He's one of those people you would never, in a million years, think was gay. So, he's comes across his share of gaybashers and he changed his church because of one time going in there and at the sermon the priest went off about being gay was wrong and that God would condemn them. He just wondered "how can he condemn me and make it wrong when he made me".
It's my opinion your born gay or your born straight.
Lorrie
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
It seems many of the people on the board agree with us, Lorrie.
Steve
Steve
I ad the priviledge of know a homosexual young male in College. I thought he was hetro since he was always with his girlfriend. Silly me. I thought she was cute, and was trying to figure out the relationship at first, and then decided she had to be his girlfriend by the way they acted together. She turned out to be just a good friend. He answered a question(S) I had. When and How did you know?
His reply, "See that couple there?
Yes
"Whose butt did you look at at?"
Hers?
He replied," I have always looked at his"
As to to the level of sexuality, why do some people like blondes while others like brunettes, and the list goes on. We have preferences that many of us cannot explain, no matter who hard we search or ask.
And as for it being a choice, the only choice is do they tell you (*And the world *) about themselves.
With Respect
:asian:
His reply, "See that couple there?
Yes
"Whose butt did you look at at?"
Hers?
He replied," I have always looked at his"
As to to the level of sexuality, why do some people like blondes while others like brunettes, and the list goes on. We have preferences that many of us cannot explain, no matter who hard we search or ask.
And as for it being a choice, the only choice is do they tell you (*And the world *) about themselves.
With Respect
:asian:
michaeledward
Grandmaster
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 6,063
- Reaction score
- 82
Hey Rich ... Just wanted to remind you .. you posted about your college friend in the second post on this thread
Originally posted by michaeledward
Hey Rich ... Just wanted to remind you .. you posted about your college friend in the second post on this thread
Yes, some of those coming late to the thread may not have read all seven (7) Pages.
I apologize if for the repeat, yet I was trying to support .
donald
Black Belt
What are you kidding? Freud, normal? He was a junkie, wack job... If being a homosexual was "normal" we would'nt even be having this discussion. Because we(straights) would be in the minority! If sex is'nt for procreation, whats its main function, release? The abandonment of morals in this nation has raised up a generation of immorals. Take a look at history. Every nation who set themselves up as the all to end all. Be it political,personal, etc.. Fell far, and hard. Rome,USSR,Nazi Germany ETC.,ETC.. We have to face facts as facts. Look at how we're designed as men, and women. Is this an accident of nature?
By His Grace :asian:
By His Grace :asian:
Just because something isn't in the majority doesn't mean it isn't normal...
Are by that logic, you are calling every minority living in the US abnormal, because they aren't just like you.
Are by that logic, you are calling every minority living in the US abnormal, because they aren't just like you.
