Self-Defense Against a Melee

[Bill Mattocks]

Thought this was interesting. Despite the fact that the US is known for violence, and we certainly have rowdy sports fans who like to fight, we have nothing on the soccer hooligans. And according to this story, the Russian soccer hooligans have taken up martial arts training, sobriety, physical fitness, and paramilitary tactics. Yikes.

Russia’s hooligans meet their match

So you tell me, how does an average soccer fan prepare for such a scenario? Frankly, I don't think you could persuade me to go to a soccer match overseas.

 

[drop bear]

Same way you survive most street encounters.

Dont be a duchebag.

Which is pretty much the entirety of reality self defence.

You are welcome.

 

[drop bear]

I mean lets see if a whole bunch of families are getting randomly ambushed here.

 

[JR 137]

Same way you survive most street encounters.

Dont be a duchebag.

Which is pretty much the entirety of reality self defence.

You are welcome.

I was in a soccer riot in Peru when I was 14. My step-father (born and raised there), step-brothers and I weren't being douchebags. We were walking around the corner after we left the stadium when we literally walked into rocks being thrown from in front and behind us. Tear gas cans on the ground, water cannons, and military police in full riot gear all coming straight at us.

The only realistic defense in that situation was run. Run like hell. Keep running until you get the F outta there. And stick together.

Sometimes, doo doo happens. It was pretty funny after the fact. Definitely the highlight of the trip.

 

[drop bear]

I was in a soccer riot in Peru when I was 14. My step-father (born and raised there), step-brothers and I weren't being douchebags. We were walking around the corner after we left the stadium when we literally walked into rocks being thrown from in front and behind us. Tear gas cans on the ground, water cannons, and military police in full riot gear all coming straight at us.

The only realistic defense in that situation was run. Run like hell. Keep running until you get the F outta there. And stick together.

Sometimes, doo doo happens. It was pretty funny after the fact. Definitely the highlight of the trip.

Yeah in my youth I only just dodged a cavalry charge by riot police during the now extinct Melbourne sky show.

Running for my life working well there too.

Ok. Also don't be an unaware dumbass.

I should pretty much start charging for this.

 

[The Great Gigsy]

It's not how, but rather if the average person would prepare for an attack. The vast majority of people go about live as if the bad stuff can happen to them. Where as, you and I train some form self defense because we know the world can be a scary place.

Second you could go to a football match in Europe an in all likelihood be perfectly safe. Hooligans are like our 1%. Most bikers like football fan's just want to have a good time. I myself plan one day before I die to travel to see ManU at Old Trafford.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

I've luckily never been in a riot yet, and if I ever do end up in one, it'll unfortunately probably be me rioting against some unjust court system, corrupt law enforcement agency or crooked politicians (God Bless America!). But it hasn't happened yet, so I don't know what that's like. But having been in an even stranger situation (I was in a stampede once with rhinos and elephants on a safari), I'd have to concur with "running like hell" as a good means of self-defense. It's really the only means.

 

[jobo]

It's not how, but rather if the average person would prepare for an attack. The vast majority of people go about live as if the bad stuff can happen to them. Where as, you and I train some form self defense because we know the world can be a scary place.

Second you could go to a football match in Europe an in all likelihood be perfectly safe. Hooligans are like our 1%. Most bikers like football fan's just want to have a good time. I myself plan one day before I die to travel to see ManU at Old Trafford.

its funny I can walk to old trafford in 20 mins and never bother to go. There is very little in the way of trouble at the grounds these days. What trouble there is in the town centre later and that's quite rare to be honest
matches abroad, club or country are a different story. There is more often than not trouble, the English fans have a name for being violent and the other fans and the riot police go looking for them
thos however is old news, a lot of the trouble in the 19701980s was caused by the British army on the rhine having leave to watch the match . Wholike the Russians' were super fit and organised and quite happy to take on greater numbers and riot police.
these days the army doesn't let them go and the English trouble makers have their passport taken off them. So they are largely defenceless against something like this.

 

[Tez3]

its funny I can walk to old trafford in 20 mins and never bother to go. There is very little in the way of trouble at the grounds these days. What trouble there is in the town centre later and that's quite rare to be honest
matches abroad, club or country are a different story. There is more often than not trouble, the English fans have a name for being violent and the other fans and the riot police go looking for them
thos however is old news, a lot of the trouble in the 19701980s was caused by the British army on the rhine having leave to watch the match . Wholike the Russians' were super fit and organised and quite happy to take on greater numbers and riot police.
these days the army doesn't let them go and the English trouble makers have their passport taken off them. So they are largely defenceless against something like this.

Wow that's some bloody accusation pal! No, the violence wasn't caused by the soldiers! I was in Germany in the late seventies and eighties and can categorically tell you that soldiers weren't responsible for the fighting, what are you on sunshine! Seventies and eighties had soldiers busy in Northern Ireland and the Falklands, not fighting at football matches. Locals will always try to stir up fights with soldiers but to actually say that the soldiers were responsible is stupid and damaging. the military are allowed to go to football matches, they have never been banned in fact quite the opposite, they get free tickets for sports events ( including the UFC btw). Watch any match these days and you will see uniformed soldiers there.
Football violence in the UK has always been organised, the 'firms' would target other firms as well as immigrants, Asians and black people. The firms were often politically far right, often into fitness and martial arts anyway. The Russian Ultras are more political than most of the firms, they are Putin's brownshirts, when not at football matches they target gays and immigrants as well as political opponents of Putin.Hitler-loving Russian hooligan gangs target England fans at Euro 2016

You may want to read this academic study on football violence, notice it's history, a very very long one! Football Violence in Europe - History

Football Hooligans | Ultras | Casuals | Firms

 

[jobo]

Wow that's some bloody accusation pal! No, the violence wasn't caused by the soldiers! I was in Germany in the late seventies and eighties and can categorically tell you that soldiers weren't responsible for the fighting, what are you on sunshine! Seventies and eighties had soldiers busy in Northern Ireland and the Falklands, not fighting at football matches. Locals will always try to stir up fights with soldiers but to actually say that the soldiers were responsible is stupid and damaging. the military are allowed to go to football matches, they have never been banned in fact quite the opposite, they get free tickets for sports events ( including the UFC btw). Watch any match these days and you will see uniformed soldiers there.
Football violence in the UK has always been organised, the 'firms' would target other firms as well as immigrants, Asians and black people. The firms were often politically far right, often into fitness and martial arts anyway. The Russian Ultras are more political than most of the firms, they are Putin's brownshirts, when not at football matches they target gays and immigrants as well as political opponents of Putin.Hitler-loving Russian hooligan gangs target England fans at Euro 2016

You may want to read this academic study on football violence, notice it's history, a very very long one! Football Violence in Europe - History

Football Hooligans | Ultras | Casuals | Firms

the British army on the rhine was not in northern Ireland, by defintion, they were on the rhine, I know coz I was there with them, at the matches not on the rhine

 

[Tez3]

the British army on the rhine was not in northern Ireland, by defintion, they were on the rhine, I know coz I was there with them, at the matches not on the rhine

Well that shows how much you know, army units did six and three months tours of Northern Ireland from their bases in the UK and BAOR. they also were on deployments to Belize as well as being part of the UN peace keeping force.

"Elements of BAOR were despatched to operate under UN command as part of BATT and UN peacekeeping operations and they also took part in regular deployments to Northern Ireland for tours of three or six months." The Cold War in Germany: Decoded 1945 - 1994: British Army of the Rhine (BAOR)

 

[jobo]

your p

Well that shows how much you know, army units did six and three months tours of Northern Ireland from their bases in the UK and BAOR. they also were on deployments to Belize as well as being part of the UN peace keeping force.

"Elements of BAOR were despatched to operate under UN command as part of BATT and UN peacekeeping operations and they also took part in regular deployments to Northern Ireland for tours of three or six months." The Cold War in Germany: Decoded 1945 - 1994: British Army of the Rhine (BAOR)

your points don't make any sense to the debate, at any one time there were 30 or 40,000 soldiers sat on the rhine with nothing else much to do. A few thousands of them used to turn up at England or club away matches and generaly wreck the place

 

[Tez3]

your p

your points don't make any sense to the debate, at any one time there were 30 or 40,000 soldiers sat on the rhine with nothing else much to do. A few thousands of them used to turn up at England or club away matches and generaly wreck the place

You made a gross accusation, I'm showing and telling you that you are very wrong. You may have been out there with the football hooligans but you were not out there with the military, I was. If you think the British army ( or any army for that matter) leaves their soldiers with little to do then that's another mistake you have made. In the seventies and eighties there was a lot going on, there were British troops in a lot of places which was hard because the military was undermanned at the time, quite badly undermanned as the Falklands war showed. there were always deployments, exercises with NATO forces as well as in Kenya and Down Under. If you think I am going to let you spout lies and misinformation then you are very much mistaken. You chose to derail this with your false accusations, I don't care whether you believe me but I will not have non Brits being fed a load of BS. So go do one mate.

 

[jobo]

You made a gross accusation, I'm showing and telling you that you are very wrong. You may have been out there with the football hooligans but you were not out there with the military, I was. If you think the British army ( or any army for that matter) leaves their soldiers with little to do then that's another mistake you have made. In the seventies and eighties there was a lot going on, there were British troops in a lot of places which was hard because the military was undermanned at the time, quite badly undermanned as the Falklands war showed. there were always deployments, exercises with NATO forces as well as in Kenya and Down Under. If you think I am going to let you spout lies and misinformation then you are very much mistaken. You chose to derail this with your false accusations, I don't care whether you believe me but I will not have non Brits being fed a load of BS. So go do one mate.

they got leave didn't they, its nether lies nor misinfomation, I watched the army boys take Amsterdam apart.the riot police were no match for them

armys in general are made up of young men who joined as they want to hurt people, destroy things. The army channels that aggression so they hurt destroy the people/ things that our government want them to. The armys have always used working class gang culture and redirected it towards the countries foes. That's how they work

off the lead they are as violent as they always were, your trying to paint them as saints. If they wanted to use their lives to help people they would have staid at home and done nursing or care work

nb they weren't short of soldiers for the Malvinas' they were short of ships to get them there

 

[Tez3]

they got leave didn't they, its nether lies nor misinfomation, I watched the army boys take Amsterdam apart.the riot police were no match for them

armys in general are made up of young men who joined as they want to hurt people, destroy things. The army channels that aggression so they hurt destroy the people/ things that our government want them to.

off the lead they are as violent as they always were, your trying to paint them as saints. If they wanted to use their lives to help people they would have staid at home and done nursing or care work

and there we have it.
Son, if it weren't for young men and women doing things you wouldn't, you wouldn't have the freedom to disrespect them. They aren't angels, never said they were as people here will tell you I've said many times but you lie like a cheap knock off watch.

Winston Churchill
We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us.

 

[jobo]

and there we have it.
Son, if it weren't for young men and women doing things you wouldn't, you wouldn't have the freedom to disrespect them. They aren't angels, never said they were as people here will tell you I've said many times but you lie like a cheap knock off watch.

Winston Churchill
We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us.

I'm taking an amoral stance on it. There are violent people in our society, some of them join the army and use that violence tendancy to help the government.

its what our government do with them that is iffy, some of it is for the common good, however sometimes they invade countries to,steal their resources' or because our government doesn't like them, but they are in no way a threat to us.
that doesn't help me sleep at night

 

[Tez3]

I'm taking an amoral stance on it. There are violent people in our society, some of them join the army and use that violence tendancy to help the government.

its what our government do with them that is iffy, some of it is for the common good, however sometimes they invade countries to,steal their resources' or because our government doesn't like them, but they are in no way a threat to us.
that doesn't help me sleep at night

Second World War ring a bell? Probably not. Political posts aren't allowed on here, nor are personal attacks so I'm going to finish now before I tell you how much you disgust me.

 

[jobo]

Second World War ring a bell? Probably not. Political posts aren't allowed on here, nor are personal attacks so I'm going to finish now before I tell you how much you disgust me.

yes it does and so unfortunately does the first world war and the conlonisation of a third of the world to take there resources' never mind the more recent invasions in the middle east

 

[oftheherd1]

I'm taking an amoral stance on it. There are violent people in our society, some of them join the army and use that violence tendancy to help the government.
...

Is it your intent to say people only join militaries to have a vehicle to express violent tendencies, to the point that is all that is in a military, violent people looking for a chance to be violent?

that doesn't help me sleep at night

What does?

 

[The Great Gigsy]

Pretty cool you live so close to Old Trafford. I'm kind of jealous. However I don't know much of a problem military personnel played into football violence. Sure there are those rotten apples but by and large I don't think it military. This is not discount what you witness, but I would think this the exception and not the rule.