Self defense advise needed for someone with a bad hip.What is the quickest way to knock someone out?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Murray77, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Murray77

    Murray77 White Belt

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    OK from the posts I've read so far this seems like a great place to ask this question. I've recently been diagnosed with Avascular Necrosis of the hip(AVN) with flattening of the femoral head. That being said anyone who knows this type of condition knows I can't afford to be involved in a knock down drag out scrap or even kick for that matter.
    So if I were in a defensive situation my strikes have to be quick, clean, concise, and effective. My question is which is more effective for a quick knock out? 1) A vagus nerve/carotid artery strike-knife chop or close fisted? 2) A quick elbow strike to the jaw. 3) An upwards open palm strike to the chin.

    Any advise anyone may be able to give me would be appreciated. -Murray77
     
  2. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

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    The simple truth is there is no quick and easy way to knock a person out. If there was professional fights would last far less time. Even a very hard, very precise strike comes with no guarantee the person will be KOed. Some people you can hit with everything you got and they aren't going to get KOed.

    The only reliable way to make a person lose consciousness is through choking them out... probably not the answer you wanted, but that's the truth.
     
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  3. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Hi Murray,

    Yeah… you're focusing on the wrong things here. For one thing, there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" defence situation… so having only one response is to miss a lot of the reality of the (potential) situations. Next, the physical aspects of self defence are really only a small part of the entire equation… if you can't afford to get involved in a knock-down, drag-out brawl, you're better off looking at awareness, evasion, de-escalation, and escape concepts as your real first line of defence.

    From there, technique isn't anywhere near as important as tactical application and understanding of the situation. You might have a great "knock out" strike, but if you don't understand when you can (or should) use it, or how to apply it, you might as well not have it for all the good it'd do you. Once you have an understanding of such things, it doesn't matter what strike you use, it'll be effective.

    Finally, words written on a forum page won't do you any good at all… you need an instructor who can guide you through the proper mechanics, angles, power generation, timing, application and so on… so it doesn't matter what we'd recommend, it matters what your teacher would say. That's who you'd need to listen to… provided, of course, you have one. I mean… pretty much each of the strikes you list have the potential to be a knock-out (I'm not so fond of the carotid strike for that, though)… but that doesn't mean that you can actually use any of them.

    Hmm… I largely agree with much of what you say here, Andrew, but I would point out that there are a number of other factors in professional fights that limit the success of such knockouts… such as the fact that both competitors are aware of the fact that the other guy is going to be trying to hit them, they're psychologically prepared, and actively guarding against such attacks… street, not so much. And, as we know, even in competitive systems, it's the one you don't see coming that takes you out…
     
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  4. JohnnyEnglish

    JohnnyEnglish Green Belt

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    2 & 3
     
  5. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

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    4) A lateral strike to the chin.

    But everyone defends the head. So... or you're faster than your shadow, or you need to create the opportunity (fast).
     
  6. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    One-shot knockouts are, for the most part, a Hollywood Fiction. If you really feel you need an immediate stop to a threat, get and learn to use a tazer. Or a gun.
    Chic-Chic-Bang is the fastest way to stop a treat.
     
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  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Punch freaking hard.

     
  8. Argus

    Argus Black Belt

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    In my head!
    Except that you should already have a round chambered ;)
     
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  9. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    The time between the Chic-Chic and the Bang may vary widely, of course...
     
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  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Old saying said, "I prefer to take 10 punches than to take 1 elbow".

    There is a good reason that

    - Sanda/Sanshou does not allow elbows.
    - PRIDE does not allow elbows.
    - UFC does not allow "downward elbow strike from the mounted position", and "hit on the back of the head".
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
  11. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    There is nobody who will take 10 punches in trade for one elbow.
     
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  12. Chrisoro

    Chrisoro Blue Belt

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    Check out the book "Dead or Alive" by Geoff Thompson, the DVD-set "Fight Back!" by Lee Morrison/Urban Combatives, and the book "Facing Violence" by Rory Miller. The contents of these three items is gold for anyone interested in reality based self defence, and teaches such important concepts as situational awareness and avoidance, criminal psychology, talking down situations, escape strategies, "the fence", distraction and pre-emptive striking, high effect targets, gross motor techniques that can be performed even when experiencing a big adrenalin dump, improvised weapons, as well as various well tried strategies for when the **** hits the fan.

    And for those who say that one punch knockouts is extremely hard to do based on the performance of professional fighters, please think about it again, and take into consideration how representative a highly trained and highly conditioned professional fighter full of adrenalin, in a psychological fight mode, with a stance and guard specifically evolved to defend against the kinds of strikes that the opponent in the relevant combat sport will most likely throw, in the extremely specific setting of a professional fight where both participants are mentally set for fighting under a specific ruleset, is for determining how difficult it is to knock out the average criminal or troublemaker in a setting where they know nothing about your skills or intent, and are not in a psychological fight mode, since you haven't entered a fight stance and clearly stated your intent to fight them before you strike. There is a reason why suckerpunches is considered extremely effective by criminals, and it's not because most criminals are especially skilled strikers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
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  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    It's true they don't allow them but Muay Thai does and they aren't as sure fire as you would imagine. Elbow strikes are but one weapon in an arsenal of weapons.
     
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  14. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

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    Just t had that to "hit on the back of the head" (and spine, even all back) is usually forbidden at any regulated combat sport, by any means.
     
  15. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

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    Elbows in combat sports cause cuts, which leads to blood. Not always tv friendly, and can lead to fights ending early from cuts when the fighter is otherwise ok to continue.

    Have a look at how many KO's in the UFC and Muay Thai come from elbows vs punches & kicks, not many from elbows alone, definitely not one shot KO's from elbows.123
     
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