Self defence myths that could actually put you in danger

[jks9199]

Punisher - the threat who already knows his target doesn't need an interview. How does 'not using the cellphone' or 'checking the backseat' or 'locking your doors as soon as you get in' or 'using the buddy system' or 'parking under a light' or 'having your keys out' qualify as any kind of useful strategy when the threat is _already in your life_? He (yes, usually 'he') is 'inside the circle', someone accepted/trusted by the rest of the people surrounding the target. So if the target speaks out about that 'gut instinct' feeling, most others inside the circle discount her perceptions (or worse). And it happens to boys/men too. Same profile; the predator is already close by.

I don't completely agree with the idea that there's no interview or other precursor behavior in acquaintance/date rape. It's often slower, and sneaker -- but I'd argue that it's there. Outside of the cases of true miscommunication/mutually altered states situations... there's still an interview process. There's still a working in, charming or assessing the vulnerability of the victim. Like I said -- it may take place over days or weeks instead of minutes. There's grooming tactics and other behaviors used to make the victim more vulnerable or otherwise relax their guard and accept the destructive behavior as normal.

Likewise, learning to trust her own instincts, to insist on getting others to hear what they're saying is important, whether dealing with strangers or those who are already in an "OK" circle. Along with trusting instincts is learning to actually say NO in a way that is heard. That means learning to be impolite -- even rude! -- and defining boundaries.

The bottom line is included in the last sentence I qouted; "the predator is already close by." Predators hunt and stalk. That's the way they work.

 

[punisher73]

I don't completely agree with the idea that there's no interview or other precursor behavior in acquaintance/date rape. It's often slower, and sneaker -- but I'd argue that it's there. Outside of the cases of true miscommunication/mutually altered states situations... there's still an interview process. There's still a working in, charming or assessing the vulnerability of the victim. Like I said -- it may take place over days or weeks instead of minutes. There's grooming tactics and other behaviors used to make the victim more vulnerable or otherwise relax their guard and accept the destructive behavior as normal.

Likewise, learning to trust her own instincts, to insist on getting others to hear what they're saying is important, whether dealing with strangers or those who are already in an "OK" circle. Along with trusting instincts is learning to actually say NO in a way that is heard. That means learning to be impolite -- even rude! -- and defining boundaries.

The bottom line is included in the last sentence I qouted; "the predator is already close by." Predators hunt and stalk. That's the way they work.

Agree completely, I should have been more specific in my last post.

I always recommend that students read "The Gift of Fear" to listen to that "inner voice" and their gut feelings.

 

[aedrasteia]

" I don't completely agree with the idea that there's no interview or other precursor behavior in acquaintance/date rape. It's often slower, and sneaker -- but I'd argue that it's there. Outside of the cases of true miscommunication/mutually altered states situations... there's still an interview process. There's still a working in, charming or assessing the vulnerability of the victim. Like I said -- it may take place over days or weeks instead of minutes. There's grooming tactics and other behaviors used to make the victim more vulnerable or otherwise relax their guard and accept the destructive behavior as normal.".

(this will be a long response, but your words are so worthwhile)

Thanks greatly JK . This is a terrific post. - I'm with you on this - and your explanation makes it clearer and better. The majority of MA instructors that I've listened to refer to a brief encounter - usually with a stranger who selects a Target, causes her (or him) to stop and exchange some conversation while the Stranger sizes her up, possibly maneuvers her, uses some pretext to create an opportunity. The 'interview conversation' itself is a kind of test: will this Target talk to me,?allowing a conversation with me out of politeness, social pressure, deference.?? He appears to behave within the customs of social boundaries (this isn't a jump and grab/blitz attack). In my curriculum we have an entire section on Targeting and Testing (both Strangers and Known).

I thought it was a bit of good progress over the last decade when a few MA teachers began to acknowledge what we women had been saying for years: the 'interview' by a stranger or Known aggressor was far more common than a blitz.

Your description of that longer, extended process of Targeting and Testing is really good and clear. I think you can have an impact on other male MAs. My experience has been encountering real resistance/reluctance among MAs to face what you have described so well: that the predators are right there all along - and this is how they operate, right inside that circle. My experience is that denial has been most prevalent, followed by massive avoidance because they have no clue how to _teach_ the responses you describe - and you are spot on. As long as MAs can just avoid this whole reality, just don't acknowledge it or talk about it, they can avoid revealing that they have no idea what to do.

Some MA folks will tell about 'trusting her instincts' 'insisting that others hear what's happening' , 'saying NO' , 'being impolite or rude'. All of your observations are good. But the predator is actively diverting attention away from himself, playing on his continued acceptance within the family, school, neighborhood, church, teams
while he is grooming the Target _and_ everyone around her. It has taken more than 35 years of the hardest work imaginable for us to get attention and persuade people to just barely begin to understand the reality of this. The church/priest molestation cases finally made a kind of massive impact, but I'm old enough to remember the rage, contempt and rejection of any suggestion that trusted adults _really_molested kids. I've seen the movie Spotlight, winner of Best Picture. Its better than I expected and it's a stunningl reminder of the power of denial.

From what I've observed/seen (not my hunch or guess) over more than 30 years, these good-hearted and well-meaning MAs simply do not have the context, background knowledge, defined behavioral goals or the teaching and interpersonal skills to actually teach this successfully. They mostly make statements about what women _should do_ and make encouraging gestures. They urge and sometimes demand, but they don't know how to change actual behavior, beginning with the internal source of that behavior. And they have never, ever had to do this (change themselves in this way) in their own lives. They are like blind people in the dark.
Mostly, they find the whole situation very uncomfortable and they find girls/womens responses puzzling and unsettling.

However, that's not the whole story. Women MAs and instructors are able to do this because we've lived it and figured out how we changed ourselves. But that's another thread.

Many many thanks for you good, smart words

 

[hoshin1600]

From what I've observed/seen (not my hunch or guess) over more than 30 years, these good-hearted and well-meaning MAs simply do not have the context, background knowledge, defined behavioral goals or the teaching and interpersonal skills to actually teach this successfully. They mostly make statements about what women _should do_ and make encouraging gestures. They urge and sometimes demand, but they don't know how to change actual behavior, beginning with the internal source of that behavior. And they have never, ever had to do this (change themselves in this way) in their own lives. They are like blind people in the dark.

brilliant and well said!! but the same statement can be said for MA teaching male and general self defense as well.

 

[hoshin1600]

i would also like to point out that the saying "most rapists are known to the victim" needs to be looked at a little more in depth. to use an old example, in an early Sopranos TV episode Tony's therapist was raped in what was shown as a "stranger" rape. but later in the show she sees his picture at the coffee shop she often goes to.
From this we can deduce,,,, for her the perpetrator was a stranger but for him it is quite possible he knows HER very well. he might have been serving her, her coffee everyday, knows her name from her credit card, has over heard her conversations on her cell phone while she was waiting in line. he knows where she works and where she lives, knows some of her daily schedule her children's and husbands name and has looked her up on face book and other social media. he has targeted her long in advance. every rapist is a cereal rapist even if this was his first attempt. it is quite possible he has some experience and knows exactly what he is doing.
( this is typical MO and profile of an "organised" rapist)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Punisher - the threat who already knows his target doesn't need an interview. How does 'not using the cellphone' or 'checking the backseat' or 'locking your doors as soon as you get in' or 'using the buddy system' or 'parking under a light' or 'having your keys out' qualify as any kind of useful strategy when the threat is _already in your life_? He (yes, usually 'he') is 'inside the circle', someone accepted/trusted by the rest of the people surrounding the target. So if the target speaks out about that 'gut instinct' feeling, most others inside the circle discount her perceptions (or worse). And it happens to boys/men too. Same profile; the predator is already close by.

Do you, or anyone else on this thread get that? And do you have anything useful for the reality we face? You sure have lots of 'shoulds' - any direct experience in successfully 'doing'?

Your suggestions are pointed right at 'stranger assault' Way over 75-80-90% of assaults come from threats who are already inside the circle of trust. What have you got for that?

That's an aggressive response to a comment - seems unwarranted.

Yes, the mental/perceptual parts are primarily for stranger attacks. The physical responses most of us teach are equally effective (and ineffective) regardless of whether the attacker is a stranger or not.

As for "any direct experience in successfully 'doing'", that's been discussed on other threads, and most of us know someone (some of us several) among our training partners, students, and instructors who have successfully used some of the physical techniques. To defend against sexual assault from an insider? Most of us no - partly because it's unlikely we'll hear from a student that she (yes, usually "she") was attacked by a friend of the family.

 

[KangTsai]

The most counter-productive, dangerous martial arts teachings are supposed techniques which are intended to handle multiple attackers. Some teachers seem to forget to stress the fact that not fighting is the best option.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

(this will be a long response, but your words are so worthwhile)

Thanks greatly JK . This is a terrific post. - I'm with you on this - and your explanation makes it clearer and better. The majority of MA instructors that I've listened to refer to a brief encounter - usually with a stranger who selects a Target, causes her (or him) to stop and exchange some conversation while the Stranger sizes her up, possibly maneuvers her, uses some pretext to create an opportunity. The 'interview conversation' itself is a kind of test: will this Target talk to me,?allowing a conversation with me out of politeness, social pressure, deference.?? He appears to behave within the customs of social boundaries (this isn't a jump and grab/blitz attack). In my curriculum we have an entire section on Targeting and Testing (both Strangers and Known).

I thought it was a bit of good progress over the last decade when a few MA teachers began to acknowledge what we women had been saying for years: the 'interview' by a stranger or Known aggressor was far more common than a blitz.

Your description of that longer, extended process of Targeting and Testing is really good and clear. I think you can have an impact on other male MAs. My experience has been encountering real resistance/reluctance among MAs to face what you have described so well: that the predators are right there all along - and this is how they operate, right inside that circle. My experience is that denial has been most prevalent, followed by massive avoidance because they have no clue how to _teach_ the responses you describe - and you are spot on. As long as MAs can just avoid this whole reality, just don't acknowledge it or talk about it, they can avoid revealing that they have no idea what to do.

Some MA folks will tell about 'trusting her instincts' 'insisting that others hear what's happening' , 'saying NO' , 'being impolite or rude'. All of your observations are good. But the predator is actively diverting attention away from himself, playing on his continued acceptance within the family, school, neighborhood, church, teams
while he is grooming the Target _and_ everyone around her. It has taken more than 35 years of the hardest work imaginable for us to get attention and persuade people to just barely begin to understand the reality of this. The church/priest molestation cases finally made a kind of massive impact, but I'm old enough to remember the rage, contempt and rejection of any suggestion that trusted adults _really_molested kids. I've seen the movie Spotlight, winner of Best Picture. Its better than I expected and it's a stunningl reminder of the power of denial.

From what I've observed/seen (not my hunch or guess) over more than 30 years, these good-hearted and well-meaning MAs simply do not have the context, background knowledge, defined behavioral goals or the teaching and interpersonal skills to actually teach this successfully. They mostly make statements about what women _should do_ and make encouraging gestures. They urge and sometimes demand, but they don't know how to change actual behavior, beginning with the internal source of that behavior. And they have never, ever had to do this (change themselves in this way) in their own lives. They are like blind people in the dark.
Mostly, they find the whole situation very uncomfortable and they find girls/womens responses puzzling and unsettling.

However, that's not the whole story. Women MAs and instructors are able to do this because we've lived it and figured out how we changed ourselves. But that's another thread.

Many many thanks for you good, smart words

You make a good point about many MA instructors not teaching these areas, or teaching them poorly. Here are a few comments - entirely my opinion - meant kindly and to foster discussion:

1) This is not, in any way, restricted to male MA instructors. Your closing comment implies that women can somehow teach this because they have to deal with it, but most female MA instructors also lack the knowledge of these same mental techniques - both what to teach and how to effect the change needed in their students. Remember that they are usually trained by the same sources as the male instructors. Of course, they likely have a better chance of creating change by way of their own credibility - I would hope a woman hears more clearly the danger when it is stated by another woman. I claim no mastery here, though I do work on some of the base issues that seem to have impact, statistically speaking (and, as Steve commented, statistics can tend to muddy the waters).

2) It is no sin for a MA instructor to no talk about those things he/she cannot teach effectively. In fact, I wish those who don't know what they're talking about would quit teaching this stuff, because they often teach methods that are either useless or may actually be dangerous. They should probably acknowledge their lack of knowledge, encourage students to seek that knowledge, then get back to what they know.

3) Physical techniques are part of this continuum. Since it is harder to prevent attack by an insider (much easier to teach avoidance for stranger situations), it seems more likely these might lead to physical defense. So, if an instructor cannot teach avoidance well, perhaps he/she can at least teach physical defense for the situation.

All that said, I wish I saw more sources offering to teach this to instructors. Do you, by chance, ever do seminars to introduce these principles to instructors? Have you considered putting together a solid book of principles and techniques to help? We could use help from someone like you who clearly has done research and has understanding.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The most counter-productive, dangerous martial arts teachings are supposed techniques which are intended to handle multiple attackers. Some teachers seem to forget to stress the fact that not fighting is the best option.

What makes this so dangerous? I teach avoidance as the first option, always. I also teach methods for dealing with multiple attackers. It is a potential situation (with poor odds that can be improved somewhat), and an effective exercise for working on situational awareness.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i would also like to point out that the saying "most rapists are known to the victim" needs to be looked at a little more in depth. to use an old example, in an early Sopranos TV episode Tony's therapist was raped in what was shown as a "stranger" rape. but later in the show she sees his picture at the coffee shop she often goes to.
From this we can deduce,,,, for her the perpetrator was a stranger but for him it is quite possible he knows HER very well. he might have been serving her, her coffee everyday, knows her name from her credit card, has over heard her conversations on her cell phone while she was waiting in line. he knows where she works and where she lives, knows some of her daily schedule her children's and husbands name and has looked her up on face book and other social media. he has targeted her long in advance. every rapist is a cereal rapist even if this was his first attempt. it is quite possible he has some experience and knows exactly what he is doing.
( this is typical MO and profile of an "organised" rapist)

I'm not sure a television example is a good example for assessing real-life risk. Are you aware of any statistics or anecdotal evidence of this sort of thing being common among real-life assaults?

 

[KangTsai]

What makes this so dangerous? I teach avoidance as the first option, always. I also teach methods for dealing with multiple attackers. It is a potential situation (with poor odds that can be improved somewhat), and an effective exercise for working on situational awareness.

Sorry I think I was focused more on bad teaching of supposed techniques. I have nothing wrong with "how to prevent harm to yourself and others in the presence of multiple attackers" and I think it's useful knowledge to have; what I meant was the certain ones which involve you actually fighting attackers as opponents. Now that I think about it I think it's more based on people, not teachings.

 

[hoshin1600]

I'm not sure a television example is a good example for assessing real-life risk. Are you aware of any statistics or anecdotal evidence of this sort of thing being common among real-life assaults?

Your hung up on the fact that I used a TV reference...you've missed the point.
And yes there are statistics and evidence. the information comes from the United states FBI behavioral science unit. Feel free to look it up.
Is it common? Not necessarily but my statement was that the saying " the rapist is known" needs a deeper understanding. The victim may know him but may not be in a "circle of trust".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sorry I think I was focused more on bad teaching of supposed techniques. I have nothing wrong with "how to prevent harm to yourself and others in the presence of multiple attackers" and I think it's useful knowledge to have; what I meant was the certain ones which involve you actually fighting attackers as opponents. Now that I think about it I think it's more based on people, not teachings.

In that continuum, there is the worst case scenario of actually having to deal with them physically. I don't spend much time on it, as it's a less likely scenario than a single attacker, but it's a possibility we deal with. Our focus is more on how to keep from dealing with more than one at a time, using movement to get to the outside of the group, dropping one in front of others, etc. I try to keep some realism in this, except when it's just a movement exercise.

Mind you, I've seen some wholly unrealistic approaches to multiple attacker scenarios. I still tell stories about one of them that I saw in a demonstration.

 

[oftheherd1]

You make a good point about many MA instructors not teaching these areas, or teaching them poorly. Here are a few comments - entirely my opinion - meant kindly and to foster discussion:

1) This is not, in any way, restricted to male MA instructors. Your closing comment implies that women can somehow teach this because they have to deal with it, but most female MA instructors also lack the knowledge of these same mental techniques - both what to teach and how to effect the change needed in their students. Remember that they are usually trained by the same sources as the male instructors. Of course, they likely have a better chance of creating change by way of their own credibility - I would hope a woman hears more clearly the danger when it is stated by another woman. I claim no mastery here, though I do work on some of the base issues that seem to have impact, statistically speaking (and, as Steve commented, statistics can tend to muddy the waters).

2) It is no sin for a MA instructor to no talk about those things he/she cannot teach effectively. In fact, I wish those who don't know what they're talking about would quit teaching this stuff, because they often teach methods that are either useless or may actually be dangerous. They should probably acknowledge their lack of knowledge, encourage students to seek that knowledge, then get back to what they know.

3) Physical techniques are part of this continuum. Since it is harder to prevent attack by an insider (much easier to teach avoidance for stranger situations), it seems more likely these might lead to physical defense. So, if an instructor cannot teach avoidance well, perhaps he/she can at least teach physical defense for the situation.

All that said, I wish I saw more sources offering to teach this to instructors. Do you, by chance, ever do seminars to introduce these principles to instructors? Have you considered putting together a solid book of principles and techniques to help? We could use help from someone like you who clearly has done research and has understanding.

Bolded and underlined: Unfortunately it seems that many women never report being raped. The fact that they have been, would presumably give them a perspective a person who hasn't been raped, might not have. But I agree they still might not know best ways to deal with it, and therefore teach. But I expect if they care enough to teach, they probably would talk to social workers as well as bringing in their own ways to have dealt with such situations. That is not to say they would be willing to say they have also been raped, but possibly, and they surely would be more empathetic.

Rape, since it involves so many facets, from stranger, to date, to 'insider' friend or relative, and from overt drastic force to drugs, to subtle breaking down of defenses, tends to make it difficult to know how to prepare a potential victim to defend themselves, verbally, mentally, or even by physical defense techniques. Especially if unknown to the instructor, the potential victim is actually already a victim.

For those who teach self defense, and especially if it tends toward rape defense, I would encourage discussions with social workers who specialize in rape counseling; perhaps even asking them to come in and give a block of instruction on that, while the MA instructor concentrates on the MA side of the equation.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Your hung up on the fact that I used a TV reference...you've missed the point.
And yes there are statistics and evidence. the information comes from the United states FBI behavioral science unit. Feel free to look it up.
Is it common? Not necessarily but my statement was that the saying " the rapist is known" needs a deeper understanding. The victim may know him but may not be in a "circle of trust".

I am in no way "hung up" on that. It's just the only reference you used. If you'd tied it to something else, I'd have had a different reaction.

I agree that there may be more to the "known" concept than just friends/family - I just don't know of any evidence I can cite. That's why I asked if you were aware of any specific evidence.

 

[hoshin1600]

i used the TV episode as a "common point of reference" i then overlaid real life information on top the story. i could have referenced "State VS Moreno- Hernandez" but then no one would know the story or what i was talking about, sometimes it is better to start with a common point like a TV show that millions of people have watched.
i am not sure what evidence you are looking for...evidence for what? understanding the nature of the crime the evidence of an attacker knowing more about the victim becomes self evident.

 

[jks9199]

Rape numbers.. Yeah, let's not even try to go down that rabbit hole. Definitions that change, expand, and respin, stats carefully crafted to support what the quoter wants them to say... Yes, there are many unreported rapes. Lots of reasons -- but the numbers aren't so astronomical as many argue, either. And that's not even getting into false report -- and the lack of prosecution of false reports of rape.

Rape in general is a question worthy of a thread all its own. Then there's domestic violence, which is NOT synonymous with rape.

With that out of the way..

Why do so many martial arts teachers teach incomplete, unworkable, or even purely imaginary ways to cope with violence? Well... fantasy sells a lot better than gritty reality. And the reality side isn't all that fun. And lots of folks really aren't interested in reality, either. They want to do an activity that's "cool" or to do something with their kids. They want their kids to learn discipline, focus, some physical competence (not necessarily fighting!)... they want to connect with the history of a particular tradition, or the romantic impression attached. And some -- well, they live in their fantasy world. And they like it. They don't want to learn the realities.

 

[aedrasteia]

Yes, the mental/perceptual parts are primarily for stranger attacks. The physical responses most of us teach are equally effective (and ineffective) regardless of whether the attacker is a stranger or not.

As for "any direct experience in successfully 'doing'", that's been discussed on other threads, and most of us know someone (some of us several) among our training partners, students, and instructors who have successfully used some of the physical techniques. To defend against sexual assault from an insider? Most of us no - partly because it's unlikely we'll hear from a student that she (yes, usually "she") was attacked by a friend of the family.

thanks for your thoughtful reply. I apologize for the length here.

re: "direct experience". Yes, we both know multiple people who have "successfully used physical techniques". However, I meant direct experience with successfully modeling/teaching/changing the mental-psychological framework that allows Targets to behave in ways that prevent assaults". This is the framework that enables girls/women to' set and enforce early boundaries' to be 'impolite' or 'rude' if required, to notice and ACT on that 'hunch-gut instinct-funny feeling' that so many describe feeling prior to a physical assault. I'm asking if that poster, or anyone on this thread, has actual, replicable experience in doing that successfully. Do you and can you describe it or help me understand why you do not?

My experience is that most MA-based instructors doing SD4W, have not. This is based on both observing and listening to many instructors in many styles over about 30 years. And the many, many threads on forums such as MT, where teachers (almost totally men) express significant confusion and puzzlement about their female students inability to do what is needed (both verbal and physical) to reduce their risk, respond to intrusive or threatening behavior or defend against physical attacks. I see very little thoughtful investigation into why that is so (such as asking and listening to replies), and little willingness to connect the very limiting ways most girls are socialized, to this inhibited self-protective behavior and thinking. For MAs (mostly men) they do not take any connection seriously and have no idea how to move forward

re: "To defend against sexual assault from an insider? Most of us no - partly because it's unlikely we'll hear from a student that she (yes, usually "she") was attacked by a friend of the family.

Yes, I understand you don't hear this. There are reasons why Targets don't share this with you. But it exists and is the most frequent form of targeting/testing/aggression/assault that girls/women must face. So to ignore it, when one knows it is so significant, is unacceptable, at least to a teacher wanting to do his/her best for people seeking help and useful instruction.

How is it possible to see oneself as effectively teaching SD4W if one has _little or no experience/actual knowledge_ of this entire dimension?

I construct and organize all my classes, workshops, presentations, talks and personal encounters about SD4W so that it becomes very likely that I'll "hear from a student that she (yes, usually "she") was attacked by a friend of the family'.

It is my job to make that as "likely" as I possibly can. Being a woman can be an asset but as pointed out on this thread, many women MAs were trained by men in MA and are equally ineffective/poor at teaching the wide range of SD4W because of it.
Over time, working collaboratively with other instructors, we've developed many strategies for making students feel comfortable talking honestly, either with others present or in private. That's part of the responsibility. It can be done.

Men in SD could do so, if they choose.. It takes time and sustained commitment and is more painful I think, than any physical challenge. I've not seen that to date but it may occur. i am hopeful and try to be encouraging.

w/respect A

The obvious Target population is becoming experienced and comfortable working with boys, teens and adult men who have been sexually assaulted by coaches, family members, friends, trusted figures. They are certainly there. They also have sought me out. Most did not seek out other adult men. Shame, humiliation and terror were present in those conversations. Developing and learning to be effective in helping those Targeted people will be a way for men in SD to get these skills. I haven't see that to date but it could happen. I don't think I've ever seen a reality-based SD training (involving mostly males) that included _any_ mention of the "known/trusted/friendly attacker" or sexual abuse of boys, teens or men by people "inside that circle". I hope that will change. It is desperately needed.

w/respect A

 

[Touch Of Death]

thanks for your thoughtful reply. I apologize for the length here.

re: "direct experience". Yes, we both know multiple people who have "successfully used physical techniques". However, I meant direct experience with successfully modeling/teaching/changing the mental-psychological framework that allows Targets to behave in ways that prevent assaults". This is the framework that enables girls/women to' set and enforce early boundaries' to be 'impolite' or 'rude' if required, to notice and ACT on that 'hunch-gut instinct-funny feeling' that so many describe feeling prior to a physical assault. I'm asking if that poster, or anyone on this thread, has actual, replicable experience in doing that successfully. Do you and can you describe it or help me understand why you do not?

My experience is that most MA-based instructors doing SD4W, have not. This is based on both observing and listening to many instructors in many styles over about 30 years. And the many, many threads on forums such as MT, where teachers (almost totally men) express significant confusion and puzzlement about their female students inability to do what is needed (both verbal and physical) to reduce their risk, respond to intrusive or threatening behavior or defend against physical attacks. I see very little thoughtful investigation into why that is so (such as asking and listening to replies), and little willingness to connect the very limiting ways most girls are socialized, to this inhibited self-protective behavior and thinking. For MAs (mostly men) they do not take any connection seriously and have no idea how to move forward

re: "To defend against sexual assault from an insider? Most of us no - partly because it's unlikely we'll hear from a student that she (yes, usually "she") was attacked by a friend of the family.

Yes, I understand you don't hear this. There are reasons why Targets don't share this with you. But it exists and is the most frequent form of targeting/testing/aggression/assault that girls/women must face. So to ignore it, when one knows it is so significant, is unacceptable, at least to a teacher wanting to do his/her best for people seeking help and useful instruction.

How is it possible to see oneself as effectively teaching SD4W if one has _little or no experience/actual knowledge_ of this entire dimension?

I construct and organize all my classes, workshops, presentations, talks and personal encounters about SD4W so that it becomes very likely that I'll "hear from a student that she (yes, usually "she") was attacked by a friend of the family'.

It is my job to make that as "likely" as I possibly can. Being a woman can be an asset but as pointed out on this thread, many women MAs were trained by men in MA and are equally ineffective/poor at teaching the wide range of SD4W because of it.
Over time, working collaboratively with other instructors, we've developed many strategies for making students feel comfortable talking honestly, either with others present or in private. That's part of the responsibility. It can be done.

Men in SD could do so, if they choose.. It takes time and sustained commitment and is more painful I think, than any physical challenge. I've not seen that to date but it may occur. i am hopeful and try to be encouraging.

w/respect A

The obvious Target population is becoming experienced and comfortable working with boys, teens and adult men who have been sexually assaulted by coaches, family members, friends, trusted figures. They are certainly there. They also have sought me out. Most did not seek out other adult men. Shame, humiliation and terror were present in those conversations. Developing and learning to be effective in helping those Targeted people will be a way for men in SD to get these skills. I haven't see that to date but it could happen. I don't think I've ever seen a reality-based SD training (involving mostly males) that included _any_ mention of the "known/trusted/friendly attacker" or sexual abuse of boys, teens or men by people "inside that circle". I hope that will change. It is desperately needed.

w/respect A

While little boys, the less obvious target population, are just as often targeted, I think you are touching on a business issue. If you teach these kids to start eyeing their own family, the family will notice. LOL

 

[Touch Of Death]

They did this to me in Sunday School, when I was young, and low and behold, my parents encouraged me to get bored with it.