Sawing off the barrel...?

[dearnis.com]

wouldn't barrell length impact accuracy because of the loss of weight to settle the weapon down as well as less surfact area to hold onto for weapon stability? I know that you can bench and accurately shoot pistols at surprisingly long ranges, but it still is more mechanically difficult to maintain consistant accuracy than with a long gun.

This is shoot-ability or user friendliness, not inherent accuracy. also the barrel itself is not gripped; the foreend is.

Penetration: Don't bet on a shotgun not penetrating.

Less lethal loads: yes these are availible on the open market. Gang, you can kill someone with these very easily. If you are messing with them, and end up in a shoot, I guarantee you will be asked what training you had, and will be painted as a rambo wanna-be.

The accuracy and spread of shotgun pellets are grossly mis-represented in the mass media. Different guns will throw different loads to different points of aim, and with differing pattern spreads and densities. If you keep a shotgun for defensive purposes (or for hunting for that matter) you need to do stationary target work at differing ranges until you have a good idea what works well for you and in your gun.

 

[Stick Dummy]

I was the impression that a cylinder choked barrel gave a radial pellet dispersion of approximately 1 3/4" per yard from the muzzle regardless of the barrel length........

Either reduced recoil buckshot loads, or plain old large birdshot will work best at ranges under 15 yards, especially indoors from a defensive standpoint.

The main reason for the short barrels now so prevalent in the L-E community was for use during raids in confined quarters similar to the military transition to the M-4 type carbine (MOUT based) on the M-16 rifles.

Pistol grips are a waste of time, and the conventional stock has been proven over time to be the best bet for 99% of shotgun usage from a defensive standpoint.

Comments?

 

[dearnis.com]

The choke is only part of the equation. Wad structure, buffered or non buffered payload, pellet deformation....
I suppose interior ballistics would be and exact science if only we understood all the variables.
The short barrels came about in part for entry guns and in part for ease of manipulation on vehicle entry/exit.
In the short barrels I am more impressed with the modified chokes; handy, but still put enough pellets where they need to go. BUT I would not trade my slightly longer barrel Scattergun Tech. conversion; nine pellets in under 6 inches at 15 yards.

 

[loki09789]

When I use the term accuracy I am meaning in actual firing, not mechanical accuracy of a weapon.

As far as grip, I have seen back in my Military days, an overhand grip of the barrel/upper reciever/foregrip with the palm down (gloves of course) of shorty weapons. This is what I picture if it is a sawed off barrel for control and control of the recoil.

Is this specifically a 'double barrel' or an auto/pump that is being used for this entirely theoretical and hypothetical discussion
Gotta cover myself with the internet nazi's
Paul M

 

[dearnis.com]

Overhand grip is pretty much going to prevent cycling a pump gun. I have been speaking in terms of pumps simply because they are the most commonly used.
I suspect this grip would lead one to shoot an auto dry fast (remember, short barrell = no magazine extension); and shotguns are not fast to reload even w/ lots of practice.

And yes, there are the street-sweeper type weapons, but those still in circulation are pricey, and using one in an altercation might not be the best choice (PR and loss of innvestment rather than purely tactical reasons.

 

[loki09789]

Yeah the overhand grip is not a great one, but it is good for control of an auto, single/double barrel shotgun or an auto weapon when you get caught off guard. It does work (seen it in action on an immediate action drill live fire exercise), to reduce the barrel jump, but there definite draw backs. You are firing from the hip or armpit tuck, so shooting accuracy is reduced, plus you are suppose to switch to conventional shooting at the first chance. This could be tricky and lead to weapon drop... Not to mention the ouch factor if you use it out of instinct/habit without a glove.

Paul Martin

 

[psi_radar]

Penetration: Don't bet on a shotgun not penetrating.

Of course this is all a matter of degrees. By its ballistic nature, of course a shotgun pellet penetrates, but it is also much lighter and loses energy much faster than say a .45, 9mm or rifle round.

Less lethal loads: yes these are availible on the open market. Gang, you can kill someone with these very easily. If you are messing with them, and end up in a shoot, I guarantee you will be asked what training you had, and will be painted as a rambo wanna-be.

Firearms are by nature dangerous regardless of their loads. The less-lethal loads must have been named by lawyers, because they're exactly that--capable of killing but not as likely as metal rounds. I disagree that using these as a self-defense measure in the home will paint a negative picture of yourself in the eyes of the law. However, if you run around using less-lethal loads as a punitive weapon outside the home, well then you should be painted as a Rambo-wannabe. Use your Taser instead!--Kidding!

The accuracy and spread of shotgun pellets are grossly mis-represented in the mass media. Different guns will throw different loads to different points of aim, and with differing pattern spreads and densities. If you keep a shotgun for defensive purposes (or for hunting for that matter) you need to do stationary target work at differing ranges until you have a good idea what works well for you and in your gun.

I think it goes without saying that everyone should be familiar with their weapons, including regular range practice. A four-foot piece of butcher's paper set at 15 and 25 yards will reveal the spread characteristics of your shotgun and preferred ammo.