Rickson challenging Benny

PhotonGuy

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I once read about how Rorion challenged Benny "The Jet" Urquidez to a fight. Benny said he would fight if the following rules were put in place, whenever they got into a clinch the referee would pull them apart and whenever Benny grabbed on to the ropes the referee would pull them apart. Rorion said no, that he wasn't a kickboxer so he wouldn't fight under those rules. So it sounds to me like Rorion would fight somebody if the rules favored his style but he wouldn't fight somebody if the rules favored their style.
 

Chris Parker

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…. And?

What I mean is, what is your purpose in posting this. Are you asking if this genuinely happened? Are you suggesting that Rorion was being hypocritical or cowardly? Are you asking if the BJJ guys here would agree with his tactics or not?

For the record, I have in front of me some letters surrounding Royce Gracie challenging Benny, and Rorion challenging "Judo" Gene Le Bell… nothing about Rorion challenging Benny, and nothing like the story you're giving above.
 
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PhotonGuy

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Your reply to my thread wasn't necessary.
 

Chris Parker

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No reply to your post was necessary… there isn't anything in it that invites any form of answer… you don't present a particular argument, question, statement, intent, or anything else. My post was to point that out to you, so that you could clarify why you posted in the first place.

Oh, and settle with the attitude, it's not going to help you. Recognise that I'm actually trying to engage you here.
 

Dirty Dog

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Your reply to my thread wasn't necessary.

If you don't want people to reply, don't post in a public forum.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.
 

jks9199

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I once read about how Rorion challenged Benny "The Jet" Urquidez to a fight. Benny said he would fight if the following rules were put in place, whenever they got into a clinch the referee would pull them apart and whenever Benny grabbed on to the ropes the referee would pull them apart. Rorion said no, that he wasn't a kickboxer so he wouldn't fight under those rules. So it sounds to me like Rorion would fight somebody if the rules favored his style but he wouldn't fight somebody if the rules favored their style.
There was a challenge issued between Benny Urquidez and one of the Gracies. I think the Gracies issued the challenge, but Benny, who was pretty much at the top of his kickboxing & movie fame, turned them down unless some conditions were met. Honestly, I don't blame him. I don't recall all the details, but they were pretty much to make it worth his time and to make it worth taking the risk. After all -- what did he have to gain? Had he beat the relatively unknown Gracies... what would he have gained? It would have been what was expected. Had he lost -- he'd have boosted their fame, and hurt his prospects. And chanced an injury that might have interfered with his next paid fight or movie...
 

Tony Dismukes

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I've read various accounts of the supposed challenge, but I don't remember the details. I think it probably fell apart over prize money as much as anything.

Rorion would probably insist that the condition for the fight was no rules at all, but of course that isn't really true. Gracie challenge matches were fought under a variety of conditions, but the rules were always at a minimum: one-on-one, no weapons. (There were some other rules that were generally adhered to, such as the fight occurring at an agreed upon time and place, but there are examples of that rule being violated by prominent members of the Gracie family.) In fairness, the Gracies mostly didn't think of these as explicit rules. It was more their implicit cultural understanding of what a fight meant.
 

Buka

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I spent a lot of time training in L.A. back in the nineties. Before I go into what I remember about this (which ain't much) Here's an article from Black Belt magizine from 1995-

Black Belt - Google Books

What I remember being told from people who trained with either of the men was was that around the time Art Davie was first starting the UFC he wanted Rorian and Benny the Jet to match up. (not for the UFC, this was before) The question, as it usually is, was about money and rules. Gloves, no gloves, a ring or a mat etc, etc" but what really killed the deal was The Jet wanted "no more than thirty seconds on the ground before the fighters were stood up". Boy, talk about a deal breaker.

I also heard from people I trust that Rorian and Benny met in the early eighties and that Rorian closed the distance, took him down and choked him out. I heard that from several people - but they didn't actually see it. But they were pretty wired into the fight scene back then.

Whatever the case may be, Rorian Gracie and Benny Urquidez are two top of the line Martial Artists. To me, in a WOW kind of way.
 

Chris Parker

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I spent a lot of time training in L.A. back in the nineties. Before I go into what I remember about this (which ain't much) Here's an article from Black Belt magizine from 1995-

Black Belt - Google Books

What I remember being told from people who trained with either of the men was was that around the time Art Davie was first starting the UFC he wanted Rorian and Benny the Jet to match up. (not for the UFC, this was before) The question, as it usually is, was about money and rules. Gloves, no gloves, a ring or a mat etc, etc" but what really killed the deal was The Jet wanted "no more than thirty seconds on the ground before the fighters were stood up". Boy, talk about a deal breaker.

I also heard from people I trust that Rorian and Benny met in the early eighties and that Rorian closed the distance, took him down and choked him out. I heard that from several people - but they didn't actually see it. But they were pretty wired into the fight scene back then.

Whatever the case may be, Rorian Gracie and Benny Urquidez are two top of the line Martial Artists. To me, in a WOW kind of way.

And, for the record, the reply from Benny Urquidez mentioned by Royce in the above article, is as follows:

Dear Mr Gracie,

Imagine my surprise and disappointment to find that you had "challenged" me once again. I accepted your so-called challenge in good faith a few years ago. I thought you were serious at that time and began training with grappling master Gene Le Bell and former Kickboxing World Champion, Bill "Superfoot" Wallance, who was also a former collegiate wrestler.

However, you backed out. You weren't serious then, and you aren't now. Once again, you are trying to gain fame and add prestige to your show by riding on my name.

You've never had any real intention of fighting me. First, you placed your "challenge" (advertisement) in a paper that is geared to entertainment news, not Martial Arts news, in the hope that I wouldn't see it. Second, I was out of the country at the time and did not return until two weeks after your ad ran. Apparently it didn't matter to you, as you were only seeking the publicity. Third, and most significant, you timed your "challenge" after I had officially retired from the ring. my retirement bout was aired on "Showtime" in December of 1993.

Your title of "ultimate fighting champion" is rather amusing. You act as if it were a legitimately sanctioned title, and not just the name that was made up for your exhibition. You'll have to do more than compete in a tough man contest to prove yourself.

My first paid competition was in a tough manx contest. I was crowned champion only after two days of competition and almost one hundred competitors in the field. However, I knew that if I really wanted to be a world champion, I would have to do more than glorified street fighting...

For twenty years I have held Kickboxing wold titles. I have proven myself in my sport throughout the world. My record of 58-0, with 49 knockouts, speaks for itself. Everyone whom I have fought were champion kick boxers. We did not insult each other with talk. We fought like men.

There is nothing that I have to prove to you, or anyone in my sport. If you want to be a true champion and be thought of with respect, you have everything to prove.

Sincerely,
- Benny Urquidez

For the record, this was found in the October/November 1994 edition of Australasian Fighting Arts, followed by a transcript of Royce's ad:

The "So-called Challenge".

The following is the content of the advertisement, signed by Royce Gracie, which was published in the "Hollywood Reporter", under a large, bold-capitals heading, "A CHALLENGE!"

Dear Benny:

In the pages of a Martial Arts magazine, you were asked if you would fight me, the two-time "Ultimate Fighting Champion". You did not answer. You then said you had been challenged by the Gracie Family before, as a publicity stunt.

If you have even seen the "Ultimate Fighting Championship", you know it is not a publicity stunt. I challenge you to enter the UFC IV in December, 1994, in Oklahoma City. I have walked out of the UFC Octagon as a champion twice. I doubt you could make it out under your own power.

Benny, face me in "The Ultimate Fighting Championship IV". You have three months to prepare. If you are not man enough, then apologise to my family.

Sincerely,
- Royce Gracie (The Ultimate Fighting Champion).

I'll leave it to people to make up their own minds as to the conduct displayed on both sides here (Royce's article in Black Belt above, and his ad/challenge here, and Benny's responce letter).

Just a quick question to the OP… you are meaning Rorion, yeah? The title of the thread says different…
 

Tony Dismukes

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FWIW, I seem to recall that there were some attempts (I don't know how serious) to set up a Rorion/Benny fight before the UFC. I could be wrong about that. That accounts on both sides seem to be pretty heavy on spin.

After the first UFC was when Royce started issuing public challenges to folks like Benny Urquidez, Mike Tyson, and Gene Lebell. These were clearly publicity stunts rather than serious negotiations to set up an actual match.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Well I see this all as old news. Lets face if the Gracies early on were challenging people to make a name for themselves. This was how they operated. Benny was established and they targeted him and others.
 

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