Rich Parsons vs. Matt Stone

[Matt Stone]

In order to better adhere to my own recommendations made elsewhere on the internet, instead of hijacking the glass houses thread in order to continue to discuss with Mr. Parsons the issues he has with me, I'm starting a new thread altogether.

So, Rich, have at me. :mp5:

You allege that I insulted you. Show me where, and I'll apologize. If it was just a case of your skin being too thin, you'll have to find a way to get over it.

You allege that I wouldn't answer your questions. Ask them, and I'll answer anything you ask. Be aware, though, that they may not be the answers you are expecting.

Enjoy.

 

[Rich Parsons]

In order to better adhere to my own recommendations made elsewhere on the internet, instead of hijacking the glass houses thread in order to continue to discuss with Mr. Parsons the issues he has with me, I'm starting a new thread altogether.

So, Rich, have at me. :mp5:

You allege that I insulted you. Show me where, and I'll apologize. If it was just a case of your skin being too thin, you'll have to find a way to get over it.

You allege that I wouldn't answer your questions. Ask them, and I'll answer anything you ask. Be aware, though, that they may not be the answers you are expecting.

Enjoy.

Matt,

You insisted that it was always my skin being too thin. Yet when I bring up any issue you and your friends all come running. I agreed before that it was best to disagree on this. Yet I thought maybe you could talk to your friends and explain to them that I do nto like being called a fraud nor a liar, nor giving false information. All the case I brought up, you threw back as me being too thin skinned.

Yet, it was your tactics and those of your friends to continue to beat a subject until someone gave in and stopped or just agreed to disagree. Yet you cannot ever agree that you might have made a mistake ever, nor those you and your friends defend. I do not support frauds. I also do not support bullies, and Nazi's or Nazi types who believe that collateral damage of any type or any amount justifies the end result. I ahppen to disagree with this. Yes, I mention Nazi's as your friend Kenneth Ku insulted me and made reference to me spitting on veterans. This I find despicable. Therefore since you and your friends seem to like to lump all of the Mods and Admins into your enemy group all as one, I lump you all into one group and reply in kind. If you find this upsetting then maybe your skin should be a little more think. :idunno:

Please explain to me what a fiary tale has to do with fraud busting and also beated a dead horse. Their was a post by Chefung that drove to my asking this question. What does it support to the discussion? Never an answer. Once again as you and your friends do not like or speak well of the mods and admins here and lump all in one, I have done also here. I fyou wish not to answer, I would understand as Chefung may wish to answer that, and I respect that. Yet, I still have the question.

Why is it ok for Yiliquan to be a new art and no other art is legitmate? I know nothing of this art, and I am not making judgement calls here about the techniques nor the capabilities of the teachers and practitioners, on the philosphy of who is this different?


Those are the major ones and the specific issue about insulting.

Waiting for your reply.
:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

You insisted that it was always my skin being too thin. Yet when I bring up any issue you and your friends all come running.

Because you tend to make statements that offend more than one person. If I started spouting off about Modern Arnis in general, I'd be an idiot not to expect responses from anyone and everyone involved in Modern Arnis training. Is this a surprise to you?

I agreed before that it was best to disagree on this.

Perhaps we did. But you are the one that started bringing up past events from other boards here on MT. That's why I'm here addressing it, on your turf, on your terms.

Yet I thought maybe you could talk to your friends and explain to them that I do nto like being called a fraud nor a liar, nor giving false information. All the case I brought up, you threw back as me being too thin skinned.

I don't remember you being called a fraud nor liar. I remember you being called to task regarding your support of issues long dead, as well as your desire for apologies for wrongs that were never committed.

Yet, it was your tactics and those of your friends to continue to beat a subject until someone gave in and stopped or just agreed to disagree.

That is the nature of argument and debate, isn't it? Two sides with differing opinions either discuss the issue until one side capitulates, or until they realize that they are at an impasse. How is this "my tactics?" As for beating a dead subject, who was it again that brought Yili into this? Was it a Yili person? No. Kenneth happens to agree with our views. He is not one of our students. Though it may come as a surprise to you, not everyone was in agreement with the decisions made so long ago. We may not have been the majority, but we weren't alone. Let me remind you that you were the one that challenged Yili people here on MT. I didn't come over here challenging you. The issue was dead as far as I was concerned, right up until you started spouting off...

Yet you cannot ever agree that you might have made a mistake ever, nor those you and your friends defend.

Maybe what it is is that your reading comprehension isn't up to snuff. If you read the posts I made in the glass houses thread, and if you review the thread you jumped into on CanAm, you'll see that I did, in fact, apologize to you for your misunderstanding of what I said at one point, and that I acknowledged my locking of the thread was premature. How is that not admitting I've made mistakes? Review some of my posts here on MT from long ago, and you'll see I've made public apologies for being wrong here as well... Go ahead, reread the stuff, and then tell me again how resistant I am to making amends when I am proven to be wrong. That's kind of the key, because if I'm not wrong, I don't apologize just to make nice...

Additionally, I'm not an apologist. My friends are grown men and women that are more than capable of defending themselves and their actions. I wouldn't then, nor will I now, apologize for the actions of Chufeng, RyuShiKan, or any of the others involved. They can speak for themselves. Because I may not agree with the specific methods involved doesn't mean I don't support the end goal. I wouldn't have done things the way others did/have done them, but then I'm not them - I'm me, and I do things my way. If you can't accept that, tough beans for you...

I do not support frauds.

I don't believe that you, specifically, were ever targetted as "supporting frauds." However, at the time of the flame war in question, the policies of MT were not advanced enough to have provisions to deal with that kind of situation. It seems to me that there are mechanisms in place for managing such things now. I still disagree with certain particulars (I still say you can't call someone out without pissing them off, which it seems is against the rules; I still say that sometimes you have to stand up and proclaim someone's BS loudly enough for all to hear, and that's against the rules; I still say that sometimes you have to rehash old subjects and open old wounds to ensure that people don't forget old transgressions, and that is certainly against the rules), but I'm not here to debate that. As a moderator, you supported (and I'm guessing you still support) the policies that allowed RSK to get himself suspended. So that got you lumped in with the rest. As a soldier I've learned that when someone gripes about the military, they probably don't mean me specifically, but what I and my comrades represent. Mods and staff of web fora are in a similar position - you are the representative of the board you work on, and therefore are viewed as part and parcel of the successes and problems. Deal with it or step down. Simple answer, really.

I also do not support bullies, and Nazi's or Nazi types who believe that collateral damage of any type or any amount justifies the end result. I ahppen to disagree with this. Yes, I mention Nazi's as your friend Kenneth Ku insulted me and made reference to me spitting on veterans. This I find despicable.

Do you know anything about history? If you do spit on veterans, then you aren't a National Socialist, but rather a fiend of a different stripe. I don't think you spit on veterans, and I'm not sure why that comment was made toward you. But I didn't make it, nor was it made on my behalf. Take it up with Kenneth.

Therefore since you and your friends seem to like to lump all of the Mods and Admins into your enemy group all as one, I lump you all into one group and reply in kind. If you find this upsetting then maybe your skin should be a little more think. :idunno:

No, it doesn't upset me. You don't have that kind of power. I find it amusing that you see a corrolation between your support of a forum's policies and the actions of individuals who act independently as the same thing.

Please explain to me what a fiary tale has to do with fraud busting and also beated a dead horse. Their was a post by Chefung that drove to my asking this question. What does it support to the discussion? Never an answer.

What are you talking about? If you have a question for Chufeng, ask Chufeng. I don't presume to speak on his behalf, nor would he on mine, unless there was a blatantly obvious mutual opinion. This sounds more like something you need to address with him, however...

Once again as you and your friends do not like or speak well of the mods and admins here and lump all in one, I have done also here. I fyou wish not to answer, I would understand as Chefung may wish to answer that, and I respect that. Yet, I still have the question.

And what is the question? How his post regarding dead horses advanced the thread? Ask him.

Why is it ok for Yiliquan to be a new art and no other art is legitmate? I know nothing of this art, and I am not making judgement calls here about the techniques nor the capabilities of the teachers and practitioners, on the philosphy of who is this different?

I don't recall anyone, ever, saying that Yiliquan was the only art that was legitimate. I specifically recall myself, my seniors, and my teacher saying that "new" arts are only validated by survival over time, and that repackaging of other arts under a new name doesn't constitute a "new" art. The issue of ARK's art wasn't in question so much so as the inordinate amount of high rankings that he laid claim to. That was resolved, and it seems you are the only one still bringing it up...

Balls in your court. I'll be chiming in on the other thread to address issue brought up there as well (though I'll only address those issues and try not to advance them - I'll save that for here).

 

[Rich Parsons]

Because you tend to make statements that offend more than one person. If I started spouting off about Modern Arnis in general, I'd be an idiot not to expect responses from anyone and everyone involved in Modern Arnis training. Is this a surprise to you?



Perhaps we did. But you are the one that started bringing up past events from other boards here on MT. That's why I'm here addressing it, on your turf, on your terms.



I don't remember you being called a fraud nor liar. I remember you being called to task regarding your support of issues long dead, as well as your desire for apologies for wrongs that were never committed.



That is the nature of argument and debate, isn't it? Two sides with differing opinions either discuss the issue until one side capitulates, or until they realize that they are at an impasse. How is this "my tactics?" As for beating a dead subject, who was it again that brought Yili into this? Was it a Yili person? No. Kenneth happens to agree with our views. He is not one of our students. Though it may come as a surprise to you, not everyone was in agreement with the decisions made so long ago. We may not have been the majority, but we weren't alone. Let me remind you that you were the one that challenged Yili people here on MT. I didn't come over here challenging you. The issue was dead as far as I was concerned, right up until you started spouting off...



Maybe what it is is that your reading comprehension isn't up to snuff. If you read the posts I made in the glass houses thread, and if you review the thread you jumped into on CanAm, you'll see that I did, in fact, apologize to you for your misunderstanding of what I said at one point, and that I acknowledged my locking of the thread was premature. How is that not admitting I've made mistakes? Review some of my posts here on MT from long ago, and you'll see I've made public apologies for being wrong here as well... Go ahead, reread the stuff, and then tell me again how resistant I am to making amends when I am proven to be wrong. That's kind of the key, because if I'm not wrong, I don't apologize just to make nice...

Additionally, I'm not an apologist. My friends are grown men and women that are more than capable of defending themselves and their actions. I wouldn't then, nor will I now, apologize for the actions of Chufeng, RyuShiKan, or any of the others involved. They can speak for themselves. Because I may not agree with the specific methods involved doesn't mean I don't support the end goal. I wouldn't have done things the way others did/have done them, but then I'm not them - I'm me, and I do things my way. If you can't accept that, tough beans for you...



I don't believe that you, specifically, were ever targetted as "supporting frauds." However, at the time of the flame war in question, the policies of MT were not advanced enough to have provisions to deal with that kind of situation. It seems to me that there are mechanisms in place for managing such things now. I still disagree with certain particulars (I still say you can't call someone out without pissing them off, which it seems is against the rules; I still say that sometimes you have to stand up and proclaim someone's BS loudly enough for all to hear, and that's against the rules; I still say that sometimes you have to rehash old subjects and open old wounds to ensure that people don't forget old transgressions, and that is certainly against the rules), but I'm not here to debate that. As a moderator, you supported (and I'm guessing you still support) the policies that allowed RSK to get himself suspended. So that got you lumped in with the rest. As a soldier I've learned that when someone gripes about the military, they probably don't mean me specifically, but what I and my comrades represent. Mods and staff of web fora are in a similar position - you are the representative of the board you work on, and therefore are viewed as part and parcel of the successes and problems. Deal with it or step down. Simple answer, really.



Do you know anything about history? If you do spit on veterans, then you aren't a National Socialist, but rather a fiend of a different stripe. I don't think you spit on veterans, and I'm not sure why that comment was made toward you. But I didn't make it, nor was it made on my behalf. Take it up with Kenneth.



No, it doesn't upset me. You don't have that kind of power. I find it amusing that you see a corrolation between your support of a forum's policies and the actions of individuals who act independently as the same thing.



What are you talking about? If you have a question for Chufeng, ask Chufeng. I don't presume to speak on his behalf, nor would he on mine, unless there was a blatantly obvious mutual opinion. This sounds more like something you need to address with him, however...



And what is the question? How his post regarding dead horses advanced the thread? Ask him.



I don't recall anyone, ever, saying that Yiliquan was the only art that was legitimate. I specifically recall myself, my seniors, and my teacher saying that "new" arts are only validated by survival over time, and that repackaging of other arts under a new name doesn't constitute a "new" art. The issue of ARK's art wasn't in question so much so as the inordinate amount of high rankings that he laid claim to. That was resolved, and it seems you are the only one still bringing it up...

Balls in your court. I'll be chiming in on the other thread to address issue brought up there as well (though I'll only address those issues and try not to advance them - I'll save that for here).

The comments about your friends all come running was before I was involved. Yet I see you think that I meant to insult more than a single person. You also find it sufficient to mention Mods and Admins, then I see no problem to continue with YiLi's and RR and other friends. When speaking in general.

As to the other thread about me on the other board continuing on and on after you asked me to stop. I would ask for eveyone to go back and read the threads here and see how many warnings to be polite and play nice were posted here and how many hi-jacked threads. I was trying to make a point over there that as a Mod you still have an opinion and not the opinion of the board only. I was aso trying to make the point that those warnings are ignored by those who think they are right or in the passion of expressing the truth, no matter how illogical it might seem to the others involved. I did apologize to the board for the posts and actions I was trying to do, to make those points. I also received e-mails and PM's about this subject, and not one was chastising me. I accept that those who did not like it either kept quiet or posted publically such as your self.

I do thank thank you for your reply about not understanding why Kenneth Ku called me what he did. And, I have tried to address it with him.

As a favor, I would ask you to contact RR, and have RR to contact Kenneth Ku and please have Kenneth Ku answer the questions, I raised to him. For, I think we both do like to have and know the truth, and do not like unanswered questions, no matter how trivial or how serious. If you could do this for me, I would appreciate that very much.

Here is how I see things between us.

Truth is very important.

Frauds have no place in martial arts.

You do have to defend yourself, and you may use what is at hand to do so.

I also think, I can read about your passion for the truth and the martial arts. If I am wrong about this then I am sorry. Yet I do not think so.

Where we differ between us.

Our approaches, and when we believe we have to make a stand differ. This is individualistic behavious and or habits or style or however you wish to express it.


Once again, I do not think we are as far away as it might seem.


I thank you for clarifying it as not the new art issue, it is the number of high ranking belts received.

As to the apology you made to me, I never did see one. I always saw a qualified apology, with comments similiar to the issue of my reading comprehension not being up to snuff. I just do not see this as an apology. Just like many times have stated, I am not owed one from you since I have thin skin. These are our differences.


So, I agree to accept the issue that we can agree to disagree, as I see that you and Chefung disagree on if you were chased out or not. I can also accpet it based up our individualism. I asked only one favor. If you reference the individuals at hand, then I will also. And as you stated, this should be a non-isue as the subject is long dead. (* Also see my above favor from you, for a total of two. *)

As to both you and Chefung. I do not have this problem with anyone else on or off line. So, in my angry little world, which I do not see, all I see is that I have/had unresolved issue(s) with you both. I believe that much as been resolved here with your replies.

I hope you believe you were not dragged back here to MT. You came back under your own choices. If you choose to stay, I still think I could learn, as we seem to differ. If you do not then, like I said I will miss some fo the information. My comments about your art and skills was truthful. No hidden insults, or comments. I appreciate you taking the comment and saying thank you.

:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

The comments about your friends all come running was before I was involved. Yet I see you think that I meant to insult more than a single person. You also find it sufficient to mention Mods and Admins, then I see no problem to continue with YiLi's and RR and other friends. When speaking in general.

I'm trying not to be sarcastic and cynical here... What do you mean in that paragraph? That because I (then and now) named names of who I was taking issue with, you are going to stop? Or are you saying that you are going to continue to refer to "the Yilis" as trouble makers (though we were never suspended for our behavior?)? I'm confused.

As to the other thread about me on the other board continuing on and on after you asked me to stop. I would ask for eveyone to go back and read the threads here and see how many warnings to be polite and play nice were posted here and how many hi-jacked threads. I was trying to make a point over there that as a Mod you still have an opinion and not the opinion of the board only. I was aso trying to make the point that those warnings are ignored by those who think they are right or in the passion of expressing the truth, no matter how illogical it might seem to the others involved. I did apologize to the board for the posts and actions I was trying to do, to make those points. I also received e-mails and PM's about this subject, and not one was chastising me. I accept that those who did not like it either kept quiet or posted publically such as your self.

I understood your point in posting at CanAm, really. I capitulated by commenting that I thought I understood how Kaith must have felt. But the difference is that MT is primarily a public forum, where you interfered in a semi-private forum. In that semi-private forum, moderators are allowed the same freedom of thought as other members. That's why it is called the "Dog Pound," and that is why access is restricted.

Your point was made. I got it. But the issue at hand in that discussion was the resolution of our private feud. We asked you to butt out because we were trying to work out our own issues, issues you simply didn't have anything to do with.

I do thank thank you for your reply about not understanding why Kenneth Ku called me what he did. And, I have tried to address it with him.

Enjoy.

As a favor, I would ask you to contact RR, and have RR to contact Kenneth Ku and please have Kenneth Ku answer the questions, I raised to him. For, I think we both do like to have and know the truth, and do not like unanswered questions, no matter how trivial or how serious. If you could do this for me, I would appreciate that very much.

While I wouldn't mind doing you a favor (I still harbor no ill will towards you), if you want to contact Robert, feel free to do so. His email address is easily obtained on the internet (check his profile at E-budo). I'm not going to play go-between and interfere in your private dealings with people.

Here is how I see things between us.

Truth is very important.

Frauds have no place in martial arts.

You do have to defend yourself, and you may use what is at hand to do so.

I also think, I can read about your passion for the truth and the martial arts. If I am wrong about this then I am sorry. Yet I do not think so.

Where we differ between us.

Our approaches, and when we believe we have to make a stand differ. This is individualistic behavious and or habits or style or however you wish to express it.


Once again, I do not think we are as far away as it might seem.

I never said we were all that different. I simply confined my complaints about your behavior to the specific acts you committed that pissed me off. I've never questioned your skill as a MAist, nor your intent as a mod. All I ever did was protest MT's policies at the time of the flame war, and protest your involvement in discussions that didn't involve you in the first place.

I thank you for clarifying it as not the new art issue, it is the number of high ranking belts received.

I don't think it needed clarifying; I thought I made that abundantly clear way back when. But if this final clarification was what you needed to put the pieces in place, you're welcome.

As to the apology you made to me, I never did see one. I always saw a qualified apology, with comments similiar to the issue of my reading comprehension not being up to snuff. I just do not see this as an apology. Just like many times have stated, I am not owed one from you since I have thin skin. These are our differences.

I'm not going to go into this again... I want this issue to die a quick death.

So, I agree to accept the issue that we can agree to disagree, as I see that you and Chefung disagree on if you were chased out or not. I can also accpet it based up our individualism. I asked only one favor. If you reference the individuals at hand, then I will also. And as you stated, this should be a non-isue as the subject is long dead. (* Also see my above favor from you, for a total of two. *)

Like I said, we are all individuals, not a united front. It just happens that we, and many other like-minded individuals, feel the same about certain things. It happens.

As to both you and Chefung. I do not have this problem with anyone else on or off line. So, in my angry little world, which I do not see, all I see is that I have/had unresolved issue(s) with you both. I believe that much as been resolved here with your replies.

Glad to hear you feel there is resolution.

I hope you believe you were not dragged back here to MT. You came back under your own choices. If you choose to stay, I still think I could learn, as we seem to differ. If you do not then, like I said I will miss some fo the information. My comments about your art and skills was truthful. No hidden insults, or comments. I appreciate you taking the comment and saying thank you.

I wasn't dragged here, but I had two choices - ignore your comments about Yili and possibly let them infect others, or come back and stand up for the truth. In a certain way, I see that as having had no choice, but I made the choice to return. Whether I stay or not is something else entirely...

Have a good day.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Matt,

I did not mean the confusing paragraph as an insult.

Only that I also have a problem with people who do not name names.
You mentioned that Arnisador and Kaith were the ones you had issues with the most and you used the terms Mods and Admins.

I then used the term YiLi.

Maybe and most likely neither of us was right no matter the reasoning.

Could we say that neither of us is happy with the other person's actions and believe that they have not acted properly in their own mind or opinion?


As to Robert, I will spend some time this week and track down his contact info. I have tried to resolve it here with Kenneth Ku as well. Yet, I cannot get him to answer the last questions I posted, and possible a couple more depending upon how hw answers. I respect you do not wish to be a go between. It was more of a BTW if you see him or talk to him, could you mention it? Yet, I do respect your decision not to get involved.

Do you feel you have addressed the issues you came here to address?

If so then can we close (* Not lock, just leave to the history as all threads are *) this thread?

 

[Matt Stone]

Do you feel you have addressed the issues you came here to address?

If so then can we close (* Not lock, just leave to the history as all threads are *) this thread?

Rich, I was fine with the whole situation right up until you started talking about "the Yilis." That was when I decided to step in.

The issue between ARK, Chufeng and I was resolved once and for all last December. The issue between RyuShiKan and Kaith, et al, is between him and them. I'm not involved at all.

I'm done with this. Been done with it. See you around the bend...

 

[KennethKu]

.....I have tried to resolve it here with Kenneth Ku as well. Yet, I cannot get him to answer the last questions I posted, and possible a couple more depending upon how hw answers....

I don't remember any of your questions worthy of an answer. The only thing I have to say to you is "Get over yourself. Don't stick your nose where it does not belong. Don't pick fight with people who don't even notice you exist."

 

[Touch Of Death]

I don't remember any of your questions worthy of an answer. The only thing I have to say to you is "Get over yourself. Don't stick your nose where it does not belong. Don't pick fight with people who don't even notice you exist."

Can't we all just get alooonnnngggg? We are the world, we are the ...
Sean

 

[Rich Parsons]

I don't remember any of your questions worthy of an answer. The only thing I have to say to you is "Get over yourself. Don't stick your nose where it does not belong. Don't pick fight with people who don't even notice you exist."

Kenneth Ku,

You said I was not the target.

Then who was the target?

Name the people you have the specific problem with, and then issues like these have a much better chance of not occurring.

It seems to me that one of the big complaints was that the Frauds would not answer the questions put to them. Therefore when the fraud busters do not answer even my simple questions it makes me wonder. In the above Matt Stone answered. I may not like the answers. I may like the answers. I may not agree or I may agree. The issue though is that he answered them.

You were deifying the YiLi's and making statements that they were kicked off and driven off. Matt Stone above stated he believes he was left with no other option and that it could be considered being forced to leave. Chefung out and out said he left under his own violation. You were wrong.

You also stated that the Mods lied. I called you on this to provide truth to this statement. You did not reply. I have to also assume you were wrong here as well. As Matt Stone stated to let these issues and to have others read them be influenced by these posts, and not to set the issue right and to set the truth down for the public to read. I am only trying to follow my own instincts and those of Mr. Stones as well.

I asked you the following on the other thread:

So you admit that I did not filter the truth or lie about what happened?

So, you admit that I was not in the cross hairs, and thereby not a fraud?


Yes to both?

I would like answers to both of these questions.

A simple Yes to both or No to either and then please provide the proof.

I want to get this clear right here and right now.

This thread seems to be good for clearing the air. You only admitted that I was not in the cross hairs. I would like to make sure everyone is clear on this subject.

I also would request that you list your specific issues with the specific person and not use general terms such as Mods or Admins or in my case the YiLi's, or in others KMA or ..., . If you are truly serious about the truth being exposed.

Thank You

 

[chufeng]

You were deifying the YiLi's

That is a very strong exaggeration...I don't recall KK burning animals for offerings to either of us.

I am only trying to follow my own instincts and those of Mr. Stones as well.

Don't presume to have a direct line to Mr. Stone's instincts...

Both Matt and I have tried to put closure to this issue...
Whatever issues you have with Mr. Ku are between the two of you.
Please do NOT use us as part of your argument with Mr. Ku...
you have difficulty getting your quotes right and the intentions behind the words are usually twisted to your agenda...

I am not trying to start another argument here...I simply want to be left out of this one...I'm done with it.

chufeng

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

"Get over yourself.

Maybe you should do the same. Your like a broken record. blah blah blah blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
:mp5:

 

[Rich Parsons]

That is a very strong exaggeration...I don't recall KK burning animals for offerings to either of us.


Don't presume to have a direct line to Mr. Stone's instincts...

Both Matt and I have tried to put closure to this issue...
Whatever issues you have with Mr. Ku are between the two of you.
Please do NOT use us as part of your argument with Mr. Ku...
you have difficulty getting your quotes right and the intentions behind the words are usually twisted to your agenda...

I am not trying to start another argument here...I simply want to be left out of this one...I'm done with it.

chufeng

Chufeng,

I did not presume to know Mr. Stone's mind completely. He has explained his points of view clearly on many posts here. If I disagree with him, then I am dragging him back and insulting or pissing him off. If I agree with him and use his excellent logic and points of view to help express some of what I was trying to express. I have insulted Mr. Stone. Or so you have said. That was not my intent. It may have been my impact, and I know we chose to agree to disagree, yet I find it interesting that no matter what I do, I am wrong with at least one of the two of you.

And yes maybe the word, deifying, was a little strong; it came across that way to me. Kenneth Ku presented the argument as if you were being persecuted and the mods and admins were the ones persecuting you. Hence you being kicked out. Yet you so kindly put that to rest. That you choose to leave on your own.

As to being left alone, I fully agree I wish this could be left alone. If everyone would drop the issue that would be fine. Yet all those involved in the past, may be mentioned and or brought back in, or chose to come back, based upon what those who come back to revisit, or those who are new come to put their own point of view in. I cannot stop Kenneth Ku from bring up that fact that he thought we chased you off. I do not know how to stop him and others from doing this.

As I would like all of us to move on, I also would still like resolution.

I remember some involved with this discussion who were upset when their questions were not answered by those who, they were not sure were the real deal.

If I get a reply of either the facts, or the yes, and no other dribble or insults or what have you, then I will move on. As you and Mr. Stone thought it necessary to post your points of view, these are mine. And I will continue until I am either given the answers I simple ask for, or those involved all go away and leave this alone with my statements being that Kenneth Ku knows nothing about this situation, and only is involved through a third party. He was not a player involved in any of the original discussions only someone bringing up the past. I will also state that he knows nothing about me and has made falsehoods against me and other mods. Thereby, his statements, in my opinion, are subject to being suspect, here and elsewhere.

So, if I get the answers I requested, numerous times. Yes, this is similar tactics used in the original discussions. I have learned well. Some people will wonder why this has not gone private, and I have learned that lesson as well. If I go private with your words being the last, or my questions being unanswered then it is perceived that what Kenneth Ku has said might be true.

Hence, my constant disagreement, and request for proof or for my words to be the last in contesting his words and stating that he has made falsehoods himself.

If I have insulted you or Mr. Stone, again I state that is not my intent.

Is it my intent to continue with my personal agenda, that being of my reputation, just as you and Mr. Stone continue with the reputation of YiLi? Yes.

:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Okay, Rich, I'm starting to get a little perturbed...

You said you wanted to let it die. I agreed. But you are still involving me by referencing me when you are dealing with Kenneth. I thought you and I had "resolution" of a sort, but by continually making comments about me you show that there is no resolution at all... You prove that you are the one that is now guilty of pursuing the issue, and it appears that you are the only one. Kenneth is dropping the hook in the water, and like a hungry fish you keep biting. Bottom line -

Leave.

Me.

Out.

Of.

It.

I can't make it any plainer. You didn't want to be involved by our general references to "the mods." Fine. You got involved in a conversation between three other people where your comments weren't wanted. You wanted to be left out of the general references to "the mods." You wanted me to contact RyuShiKan. I won't because I don't want to be a part of your private situation. Your situation with Kenneth is identical to your situation with RyuShiKan, and I won't be a party to any of it. Deal with then directly and on your own.

I don't want to be a part of your ongoing, self-proclaimed "personal agenda." If you can't craft a response to Kenneth or anyone else without making reference to me specifically, reconsider making it. That is one reason why generalizations are used - to leave specific individuals untouched. And you don't have to refer to "the Yilis" either, because it is still specific enough as to constitute a direct reference.

Leave me out of it, and it'll die. So far the battle remains between you and Kenneth alone, and I've already said too many times that I'd let it go nearly 6 months ago...

Now, one final time, leave me out of it. Cease and desist. Put it down and walk away. Only then is this issue going to die.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I do find it amusing that, when I use the same tactics and arguments of others, I am the only one who is making a mistake.

No one besides a couple of mods/admins and myself have made an issue about Kenneth Ku making statements he cannot prove. I find this amusing as well.

Would any of the known or unknown or future fraud busters like to help me out in my pursuit of this topic? Wait, I do not think this would be productive. (* See below *)

I thought those interested in the truth above all else would step forward in the search for truth. Step forward and ask for the proof. This is in no means an insult to anyone who wishes to remain out of this discussion or any other discussion for personal reason or just being tired of it all. I respect the issue of being neutral or being left out. :asian:

I am just asking for assistance, from those who have more experience then I, in either proving I have made falsehoods or Kenneth Ku has made falsehoods of false accusations.

A simple reply of Yes to both of your questions would suffice Kenneth Ku.

Then this could all be put into the past. I do ask that since we have moved subjects from Me and the thread starter to that of Me and Kenneth Ku, I would ask that all others please remain out of this.



:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

I do find it amusing that, when I use the same tactics and arguments of others, I am the only one who is making a mistake.

Who are you addressing here? Are you talking about my asking you to leave me out of it? Weren't you the one that demanded I stop referring to "mods" and name specific names because you wanted to be left out of that generalization?

I only want to walk away from this, but like you said upthread you have a personal agenda to pursue - something you seem intent on doing no matter the desire by other parties to let the issue rest. Sounds a lot like the behavior you criticized RyuShiKan of exhibiting...

No one besides a couple of mods/admins and myself have made an issue about Kenneth Ku making statements he cannot prove. I find this amusing as well.

I haven't made an issue of it because I don't care. It is between you and him and doesn't involve me at all... If he was lambasting a general population, making claims to abilities he couldn't prove, making claims of possessing a martial lineage that was patently false, then I'd probably start asking questions. But since it seems to be a personal gripe between the two of you, I'm not involved nor do I wish to be...

Would any of the known or unknown or future fraud busters like to help me out in my pursuit of this topic? Wait, I do not think this would be productive. (* See below *)

No, it wouldn't be any more productive that this thread is becoming... I started it to air issues between you and I. Kenneth jumped in. He shouldn't have - he should have started his own thread. He is assisting you in hijacking this thread (like you hijacked the one on CanAm) by baiting you and you are falling for it... So now you hijack your own thread and use it to redirect your attacks in other directions... Not productive at all.

I thought those interested in the truth above all else would step forward in the search for truth. Step forward and ask for the proof. This is in no means an insult to anyone who wishes to remain out of this discussion or any other discussion for personal reason or just being tired of it all. I respect the issue of being neutral or being left out. :asian:

You respect it enough to use generic terms (the kind you hate) to refer to people that everyone can (from reading this thread and the glass houses thread) deduce the identities of. Why would you expect any of us to help you pursue your own personal issues?

I am just asking for assistance, from those who have more experience then I, in either proving I have made falsehoods or Kenneth Ku has made falsehoods of false accusations.

Again, chase your own objectives. I won't assist in doing so because the problem doesn't involve me.

Then this could all be put into the past. I do ask that since we have moved subjects from Me and the thread starter to that of Me and Kenneth Ku, I would ask that all others please remain out of this.

:asian:

I'm done here. I won't be posting on this thead again...

 

[KennethKu]

.....You were deifying the YiLi's and making statements that they were kicked off and driven off. .....

I SAID people left because they were disgusted at the arbitrary administration of the rules that favour political correctness over truth, at certain mods' blatant siding with the fraud, whom, you were later forced to ban, but shamelessly took credit for their expose at the same time.

Don't put words in my mouth. It was your boss that said they were "done in"
This is why I ignore you. You and your screwed up logic, is a total waste of time.


However, since you have been mouthing non stop like a stuck pig, I'll ask you this. You want the truth, huh? CAN YOU HANDLE THE TRUTH? DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO GET AT THE TRUTH? OR are you gonna hide behind your RULES as soon as the heat gets up, huh? Do all the MODS have the capacity to stomach the truth? Are you just mouthing behind the computer and your MOD position and the mighty forum RULES, tough guy?

You want the truth, I know where you can have the truth. But do you have the stomach for it? OR are you just gonna hide behind FORUM RULES, as soon as the heat gets up? You tell me.

 

[KennethKu]

Hint:

Since you are so unbelievably stupid, I will just have to go out on a limb here and point you the direction. If you want to know which one of you mods were in the fraud busting cross-hair, JUST ASK THE MODS!!! Duh! If they are truly honest, they would have no problem telling another MOD.

So, let me ask this. Are you this ignorant or are you this stupid?

 

[KennethKu]

Maybe you should do the same. Your like a broken record. blah blah blah blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
:mp5:

Are you simply stupid or just ignorant? OR both? lol

 

[Rich Parsons]

Mr. Stone,

It was not directed towards you.