Reperations

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Kaith,
first of all I never said we owe black people anything; we owe it to our selves to send as many black people we can to college

Owe it to send them? I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean... If they want to go, can't they just go? Yeah, I'm pretty sure they can... even if its community college, and if they are too poor to afford it, the same financial aid and student loans are availible to them as anyone else if they apply for it.
They could also enlist in the military and get free education on the GI bill. Why should they, I, you or him, get a handout?

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
and lower standards if need be; because, its the right thing to do for our country.

Uh, lower the standards, like teaching Ebonics in school as a legitimate language? THAT'S going to help someone get a job in the real world. Or teaching New math, where 1+1 = 6 as long as you tried to answer you arent wrong, so you will feel good about yourself??? Lowering standards just leads to a lower standard of society.

In my nieghborhood (which is rapidly becoming a suburban ghetto full of gangs, trash (the actual garbage kind, I dont mean people) section 8 housing, crime and disrepair) the city is actually TRYING to improve the neighborhoods by fining people with trash on their lawns, condemning buildings etc...

But in a lot of areas they "Lowered the standards" and you HAVE "Barrios", "projects" etc... where they wont even show up, let alone try and enforce anything.

And on th subject of Spelling which came up above as well... Please forgive my poor grammer, I have no real college education to speak of. (Damn, and I still managed to pull down a 1/2way decent job, well, one that pays enough to pay for my house, car and other costs of living, guess that HARD WORK really DOES pay off.)

 

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by Technopunk




Uh, lower the standards, like teaching Ebonics in school as a legitimate language? THAT'S going to help someone get a job in the real world. Or teaching New math, where 1+1 = 6 as long as you tried to answer you arent wrong, so you will feel good about yourself??? Lowering standards just leads to a lower standard of society.

Regarding Ebonics... it was a stupid idea to begin with, but what it came down to was FUNDING. The school was not TEACHING ebonics, it was trying to classify the dialect as a foreign language so they could get more state funding to help teach those students who grew up speaking it and didn't know correct English grammar. Classifying Ebonics as a foreign language would enable them to put those students in programs that could provide assistance. However, since it is obvious that Ebonics is a dialect and not a language (someone speaking Ebonics can communicate to me, and I can communicate to them, even though I'm not speaking Ebonics), they just made themselves look foolish.

Regarding Math... Tests exist to check understanding. The students get credit for whatever portion of the math problem is correct, using the correct methods. If a math problem takes seven steps to solve, and the student does six out of seven steps correctly, and makes a simple computation error on step seven, the student receives six points correct out of seven, because the student did six out of seven items correctly. Conversely, if a student uses methods that don't make mathematical sense, makes numerous computation errors, and still by some miracle comes up with the correct answer by strange coincidence, the student would receive no credit for the answer, because the test is checking for understanding that the student failed to demonstrate.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I do not believe lowering standards is a good thing.

Would you want a doctor who skimmed by with a 55 average?
An accountant who had failed math, then only got thru due to a lowering of the curve?

When I was in gradeschool, failute was 70. In highschool it was dropped to 65. When my sister got to highschool, it was further lowered to 55...and they were talking about dropping it to 45!!! You wouldn't lower your martial arts schools standards so that 'black belt' requires 4 days outta 4 years and the ability to hold a horse stance and throw a straight punch. So, why lower the requirements for basic life skills?

I'm sorry, but thats not the answer. Neither is throwing money at the problem.

We can have a state of the art school, fully equipped, and fully staffed, with an aid in each class, and tutors standing by....what good is it if the student is not there?

I'm a nerd, a geek, a bookworm. When I was in HS, it was so 'uncool' to read. To read -anything-. The 'heros' were the 'tough guys' who claimed they didn't need to know how to read, or count.

-IF- any group wants to improve their lots in life, the ability ot master the basics are a requirement. That means getting their asses in to a school, and applying themselves to the work, to learn it, master it, and then, move beyond.

This isn't a 'white' thing, its a 'success' thing. They have to discover that which so many others, many in -worse- situations did. That to succede, requires effort, and endurence.

Heres a short list of notable 'blacks'. I did some digging on backgrounds for 2, but there are many more. (I like the quote by mr. Dean.).

Granville Woods
Claim to fame:

Invented an improved steam boiler furnace in 1884. Also patented more than 150 electrical devices including the original telephone system and transmitter and the railway telegraph.


Elijah McCoy
Claim to fame:

In 1872 Elijah McCoy developed the "lubricator cup" to enable machines to be oiled without being turned off. It is because of his work that the term "the real McCoy" was begun.


Jan Matzeliger
Claim to fame:

In 1891 Jan Matzeliger created the shoe lasting machine which automatically stitched the shoe leather to the side of the shoe.


Madame C.J. Walker
Claim to fame:

Madame C.J. Walker created her own cosmetics and hair care products. She began the practice of selling products door-to-door. She became the first American self-made millionaire, and had started her business with only $1.50.

One of the first American women of any race or rank to become a millionaire through her own efforts was Sarah Breedlove Walker. Sarah Breedlove was born in 1867 to Minerva and Owen Breedlove on the shores of the Mississippi River in northeast Louisiana. Sarah's parents, both ex-slaves, were sharecroppers who lived on the Burney plantation in Delta, Louisiana. "Madam Walker always said in her public speeches that she was 'orphaned at seven.' Her mother died first. Her father remarried and apparently died before she turn eight in December, 1875. Source: Bundles" Because of her impoverished background she had only a limited formal education.

James West
Claim to fame:

In 1968 James West, along with Gerhard Sessler, invented the foil-electrical microphone.


Garrett Morgan
Claim to fame:

Garrett Morgan invented the gas mask in 1912. Then in the 1920s his automatic stop light made driving safer.


Mark Dean
Claim to fame:

In the 1990s, Mark Dean developed the ISA systems bus, to allow multiple devices to be connected to a computer.
Mr. Dean said this: "A lot of kids growing up today aren't told that you can be whatever you want to be. There may be obstacles, but there are no limits."

Is Mark Dean a computer scientist or is he an engineer? He surely is a tinker. As a boy, he and his father built a tractor from scratch.

Mark Dean's grandfather was a high school principal, his father was a supervisor at the TVA (Tennessee Vally Authority) Dam. One of the few African American students attending his Jefferson City (Tenn.) High School, he was both a star athelete and a straight-A student. In 1979 he graduated at the top of his class at the University of Tennessee though he was actually a part of the university's Minority Engineering Program.

After integration, he recalls, one white friend in sixth grade asked if he was really black. Dean said his friend had concluded he was too smart to be black.

"That was the problem -- the assumption about what blacks could do was tilted," Dean said.

That was the same bias Dean said he encountered when he first joined IBM, and a problem that has not completely disappeared.

"A lot of kids growing up today aren't told that you can be whatever you want to be," he said. "There may be obstacles, but there are no limits."

I say, fully fund education, get the teachers skills up to speed, then, RAISE the standards. Make 70 the 'fail' point. Have the programs available to give extra help to those who need it. As was mentioned earlier, it will just take time, endurence and extra effort. Some will have to give up their social lives, their sports, their free time. But, the doors that will open, and the self confidence they will build by solving and beating the problems, will build -MEN- and -WOMEN- which is sorely lacking in America today, regardless of pigment issues.

The questions is, if we build it, will they come?

If they want to make payments for past slights, a check to the individual will not work. Put the money into the education system, and encourage the kids -and- adults to get their butts into school, and educate themselves. Education -IS- power.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
Regarding Ebonics... it was a stupid idea to begin with, but what it came down to was FUNDING. The school was not TEACHING ebonics, it was trying to classify the dialect as a foreign language so they could get more state funding to help teach those students who grew up speaking it and didn't know correct English grammar. Classifying Ebonics as a foreign language would enable them to put those students in programs that could provide assistance. However, since it is obvious that Ebonics is a dialect and not a language (someone speaking Ebonics can communicate to me, and I can communicate to them, even though I'm not speaking Ebonics), they just made themselves look foolish.

Nightingale,

I agree with your comments and presentation of the data here. Thank you.

Originally posted by nightingale8472
Regarding Math... Tests exist to check understanding. The students get credit for whatever portion of the math problem is correct, using the correct methods. If a math problem takes seven steps to solve, and the student does six out of seven steps correctly, and makes a simple computation error on step seven, the student receives six points correct out of seven, because the student did six out of seven items correctly. Conversely, if a student uses methods that don't make mathematical sense, makes numerous computation errors, and still by some miracle comes up with the correct answer by strange coincidence, the student would receive no credit for the answer, because the test is checking for understanding that the student failed to demonstrate.

Yes, I was in trouble as a young person for having undiagnosed Dyslexia, and also acute understanding of pattersn and mathematics.

In second grade (* 1972-73 Age 6-7 *), I was asked to sum up the values of 1 to 100. I said to myself, 100 and then 1-49 matched with 51 to 99 gives me 49 more 100's and then the 50. SO I added it all up real quick in my head, and then wrote it down and gave ti to the instructor. She told me there was no way I could have answered that problem.

Yet, this does not take away from those that did it the traditional way. And eys they did get full credit


As to racism, Universities are bad for preference's. I agree it should be based upon scores and capabilities. I was on a hiring selection committee for a University and we had problems when Afirmative action got involved. We had ranked all the people from 1 to 300. the top 25 were all real close. We were told we could only interview the top five. Well Affimative action stepped in and told us we were all wrong and had to do it all over. This is the first time we got to see names and age and sex. The Top 5 consisted of a single white male, a married white female, a married hispanic female, a married white male and an married Asian Male. Note: number 6 and 7 were both African American's, one male and the other female. Now, Affirmative action insisted we go and reconsider certain people in the teen's and twenties.
As I was a student I got away with a lot. I said ok, no problem, do what you have to do to save your carears, to the professors, I told the Chair that I would contact the local news for an interview. We interviewed the top 7. Now here is where more discrimination occured. THe number one, already got a better job elswhwere. The number two was a female and she told the interview committe that she as pregnant. This lost the job for her, since she would be off for maturnity leave in the fall. The number three person interviewed well and this was our choice. We had to go back for a second interview and only interview the 3rd, Hispanic Female and the 6 & 7 African American's. We hired the hispanic female. HSe was the best. Note: Any in the top 25 were more than qualified for the job. The Top 5 could have and some did get choice job's elsewhere. The top ten where not left without jobs, they may just have had to look furhter.

So, equality is something I hope for. Including if they ever re-instate the draft registration, that both males and females have to register. Equality for consideration for governement loans and grants.

Just my opinions

Have a nice day
:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Ok, lets look at the groups then.

What has this generation or the previous 2 generations of 'whites' done that justifies paying these reparations to these 'former slaves'? See, None of them look to be 140+ years old.

The last widow of a Civil War vet passed away within the past decade or so--I recall reading about it in the paper.

I think we'd agree that recently freed slaves in 1865 were at a disadvantage. Some would overcome it. The next generation was also at a disadvantage--more would be in a position to overcome it. The disadvantage continues to decrease, though within my lifetime a governor has pledged to block all African-American students from attending a public university in his state. The federal govt. needed to use the National Guard to stop that.

When did the disadvantage disappear? If it is hasn't, then the question becomes how big it is. I'd say it diminishes every decade but hasn't yet gone away.

It's also necessary to distinguish between any lingering effects of slavery and the still-present effects of prejudice and discrimination. Prejudice helped enable slavery by allowing Europeans to declare Africans sub-human and hence able to be enslaved. (African tribes were frequently complicit--they conducted many of the raids and sold their fellow Africans to the Europeans.) The effects of prejudice remain today.

It's complicated. I once qualified for a prestigious fellowship in every category but 'white male' and wasn't overly happy about that. But on the other hand are issues both of fairness and of doing what's best for the country. Let's see, what does history teach us about keeping a group of people who have a sense of group identity in poor conditions compared to those who appear to be in power?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
In second grade (* 1972-73 Age 6-7 *), I was asked to sum up the values of 1 to 100. I said to myself, 100 and then 1-49 matched with 51 to 99 gives me 49 more 100's and then the 50. SO I added it all up real quick in my head, and then wrote it down and gave ti to the instructor. She told me there was no way I could have answered that problem.

This is a famous story about C.F. Gauss.

As to racism, Universities are bad for preference's. I agree it should be based upon scores and capabilities.

For admissions, colleges have always tried for diversity: Regional (students from all 50 states and abroad), interests (even at a technical school you have to have people who want to work the student paper, be in band, do sports and student govt., etc.), and so on. There's a value to the students in having some heterogeneity. In many cases such individuals are admitted despite lower test scores--athletes are a well-known case, but if a school has admitted students from 49 states, expect that guy from Anchorage to start looking better all the time. If only three people with an interest in musical instruments apply and the school has a pep band, they're in good shape. Should race be included? I don't know the answer.

Not everyone appreciates the value of education--especially if they have attended a very bad public school. If the public schools have failed them, they may dismiss further education. Do we owe it to such people to correct that?

 

[Touch Of Death]

no, nobody owes any one anything. In fact lets all put our heads in the sand and let all those bastards kill eachother. Of course our sons and daughters will just have to accept that they are better than those people. Just because the family structure of black people was completly turned on its ear over one hundred years ago doesn't mean the surviving results should recieve a damn bit of compassion. Rather than get to the root of the problem and nip it in the bud with an active education plan we should dance on the graves of those trained since birth to hate white america. We didn't ask them to breed. Hey, maybe we should institute a sterilization program; now, that is money well spent. Wait I know, We can hire lower income whites(who obviously lossed there job to a minority) to be the jailers and guards for lower income blacks. That would be perfect. Oh wait we already do that. Got any Ideas?

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Of course our sons and daughters will just have to accept that they are better than those people.

Nobody in this thread have ever once claimed to be better than
"those people". Not one.

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Just because the family structure of black people was completly turned on its ear over one hundred years ago

So it's all about black people? What about hispanics? Aren't
they in the group?

What about Jews, Chinese, Japanese? Oh wait, they're not
blaming anyone, or asking for reperations, they just face the
adversity head on and create their own destiny through hard
work.

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
doesn't mean the surviving results should recieve a damn bit of compassion.

Compassion? Wow, you must be right ... no one in this thread
has been discussing compassion ... maybe because that's not
the topic of this thread? hmmmm

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Rather than get to the root of the problem and nip it in the bud with an active education plan we should dance on the graves of those trained since birth to hate white america.

Those aren't the only ones who'd get the bill. You're talking about
a VERY small percentage of the population. Why is it that the
current education plan works on a lot of minorities, -including-
blacks? I'll bet it's because the worked for it!

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Wait I know, We can hire lower income whites(who obviously lossed there job to a minority) to be the jailers and guards for lower income blacks. That would be perfect. Oh wait we already do that.

No one has said they lost their job to a minority .. however many
have not gotten a job, because they -had- to hire a minority. Do
you deny that affirmative action is in place? There's a real easy
way for minorities to stay out of jail ... it's called "not breaking
the law". But I'm sure none of them have .. it's all those racists
bred by the KKK that are in power, and are framing them :shrug:

 

[Touch Of Death]

for one thing. No hispanics are not included in this discussion. Nor is any other minority group that was not robbed of its culture and if affirmative action isnt about compassion I dont know what is. Every body keeps trying to put there own family's plights into this dicussion. But unless you have this particular history they are not part of this discussion or the problem so keep your Polish, Irish, Japanese, or whatever problems to you selves(unless you want to start another thread).

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
for one thing. No hispanics are not included in this discussion. Nor is any other minority group that was not robbed of its culture and if affirmative action isnt about compassion I dont know what is. Every body keeps trying to put there own family's plights into this dicussion. But unless you have this particular history they are not part of this discussion or the problem so keep your Polish, Irish, Japanese, or whatever problems to you selves(unless you want to start another thread).

Well we certainly aren't talking about slaves either. The side of
blacks (not all of whom even have forefathers that were slaves),
is that they've faced too much adversity as a result of their great
grandfather/mother being a slave. That's crap. And by those
mentioning their own adversities and that of our grandparents ...
we're saying that it's not a matter of the color of your skin. You
get what you work for, and don't need any reparations to make
it in this country.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The phenomininon of the black experience in the US is still an unique problem that isn't getting any better. Calling it crap and pretending it isnt real isnt getting us any where. Maybe President Hillary will make you understand. Just like Kenedy made the south understand in the sixties.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

No one is pretending its not real or ignoring it. I can cite you statistics on problems that effect blacks.

Low literacy
high unemployment
high crime
high teen pregnancies
high drug use
high poverty

Being sarcastic won't solve the problem. Neither will free handouts of cash.

In my area, our main library (its huge for the area...) sits a 5 minute walk from -3- grade schools in a predominently black neighborhood. They offer a variety of tutor and mentor programs to the public. Just walk in and sign up. The library is on many major bus routes. I asked the librarian about who uses their programs....her reply was that it was mostly used by college students, and folks from the subburbs.... not those in the local neighborhood.

I'm sorry, but you tell me why this is?

Here, pass this along to some folks...I think this guys great. I wore out a copy of his first book a few years back:
http://www.lesbrown.com/htdocs/index.htm

Les Brown
Born a twin in low-income Liberty City in Miami, Florida, Les and his twin brother, Wes, were adopted when they were six weeks old by Mrs. Mamie Brown. Mrs. Brown was a single woman who had very little education or financial means, but a very big heart. As a child Les' inattention to school work, his restless energy, and the failure of his teachers to recognize his true potential resulted in him being mislabeled as a slow learner. The label and the stigma stayed with him, damaging self-esteem to such an extent that it took several years to overcome.

Passion to Learn and His Hunger to Realize Greatness
Les has had no formal education beyond high school, but with persistence and determination he as initiated and continued a process of unending self-education which has distinguished him as an authority on harnessing human potential. Les Brown's passion to learn and his hunger to realize greatness in himself and others helped him to achieve greatness. He rose from a hip-talkin morning DJ to broadcast manager; from community activist to community leader; from political commentator to three-term legislator; and from a banquet and nightclub emcee to premier keynote speaker.

In 1986, Les entered the public speaking arena on a full-time basis and formed his own company, Les Brown Enterprises, Inc. The company provides motivational tapes and materials, workshops, and personal/professional development programs aimed at individuals, companies, and organizations.

Award Winning Speaker
In 1989, Les Brown was the recipient of the National Speakers Association's highest honor: The Council of Peers Award of Excellence (CPAE). In addition, he was selected one of the World's Top Five Speakers for 1992 by Toastmasters international and recipient of the Golden Gavel Award.

In 1990, Les recorded his first in a series of speech presentations entitled You Deserve, which was awarded a Chicago-area Emmy, and became the leading fundraising program of its kind for pledges to PBS stations nationwide.

Best Selling Author and Celebrity
Les Brown is an internationally recognized speaker and CEO of Les Brown Enterprises, Inc., he is also the author of the highly acclaimed and successful books, Live Your Dreams, and newly released book, It's Not Over Until You Win. Les is the former host of The Les Brown Show, a nationally syndicated daily television talk show which focused on solutions rather than problems.

Les Brown is one of the nation's leading authorities in understanding and stimulating human potential. Utilizing powerful delivery and newly emerging insights Les' customized presentation will teach, inspire, and channel your audience to new levels of achievement.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
In my area, our main library (its huge for the area...) sits a 5 minute walk from -3- grade schools in a predominently black neighborhood. They offer a variety of tutor and mentor programs to the public. Just walk in and sign up. The library is on many major bus routes. I asked the librarian about who uses their programs....her reply was that it was mostly used by college students, and folks from the subburbs.... not those in the local neighborhood.

I'm sorry, but you tell me why this is?

I see two possibilities:

1.) It's a societal/sociological issue.
2.) It's a genetic issue.

(One might further add a possibility of it being a combination of factors, but that won't matter for my purposes.) If you side with explanation 1.), then you should side with social responses--maybe not affirmative action or reparations, but some sort of social/govt. response. If you side with explanation 2.), then you believe it's a genetic predisposition shared by a particular race of people, that is, that their race is an adequate explanation of the facts.

You claim to have noticed a significant set of behaviours shared by members of a certain race in a certain region. You correlate this with poverty. What is the cause of this set of behaviours? How, if at all, should it be addressed?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I go with #1 (1.) It's a societal/sociological issue.)

Why?

Because on one side of this main library you have a large, predominently black neighborhood. On the other side, you have a thin strip of downtown (2-4 blocks maybe) and then a large predominently hispanic neighborhood. Both are suffering from very similar problems.

I don't think its genetic...I've seen too many examples of sucessful 'blacks' to subscribe to that falicy.

I think its social...and I think its mostly self-generated.
Why wont they walk 10 minutes to learn to read?
Why won't they go to school?
Why won't they take the initiative in keeping their neighborhood clean?

There are -many- new houses there too...aimed at improving the neighborhood...very nice houses. They knocked down a number of 'slum' level projects to do so. The city really went all out. The cars in the driveways are newer models, and they families are making an effort to keep things up.

The fact is, education and inititive = success. The harder and smarter you work, the more likely you will succeed. Sitting on your butt waiting for a handout never got anyone thru college.

My opinion is, and has been, no matter how much you spend, if folks dont want to get off their asses, you are wasting your money. Going back to the crack-ho for a moment...if we give her $10,000 cuz her great great grandma worked a field for RE Lee, will she really clean herself up, get an education and start to improve her life, or will she go out and OD on junk? Why are most Lotto winners in bankrupsy within a few years of winning?

Points to ponder pinky.

NARF!

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by arnisador
This is a famous story about C.F. Gauss.

Yes this is the problem it still can happen independantly at a different time line If the student has not had the advantage to learn the summation rules yet. (n(n+1))/2

Originally posted by arnisador

For admissions, colleges have always tried for diversity: Regional (students from all 50 states and abroad), interests (even at a technical school you have to have people who want to work the student paper, be in band, do sports and student govt., etc.), and so on. There's a value to the students in having some heterogeneity. In many cases such individuals are admitted despite lower test scores--athletes are a well-known case, but if a school has admitted students from 49 states, expect that guy from Anchorage to start looking better all the time. If only three people with an interest in musical instruments apply and the school has a pep band, they're in good shape. Should race be included? I don't know the answer.

Not everyone appreciates the value of education--especially if they have attended a very bad public school. If the public schools have failed them, they may dismiss further education. Do we owe it to such people to correct that?

I agree, for a certain sport the college supports or for the band and or music, heck even for students who study a rare subject, yet for Race to be the MAJOR factor, or the deciding factor. Or better yet, teh U uses the following rule's of economics, OUt of Country (* Most Money *), Out of State (* A lot of Money *), Minority, (* Federal Grants *), Every other person, oh yeah did I mention this was a STATE College where our state taxes are to support this school , It is not always fair for almost anyone. Pick your battles and change the system :asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I think its social...and I think its mostly self-generated.
Why wont they walk 10 minutes to learn to read?
Why won't they go to school?

It seems obvious to many of us that that's the way to success. However, that message hasn't reached everyone yet, for a variety of reasons. If no one you knew went to college, would you consider it as strong an option? In a very poor neighborhood there's less awareness. More than that, getting into college requires a certain amount of knowledge. Most of us consulted college graduate relatives and neighbors when the time came.

I saw a very convvincing study some years ago that made the case that income was not nearly as good a proxy for college attendance as was wealth, defined as something like the total worth of the family, their parents' families, and their grandparents' families. The idea was that even having money didn't provide the idea that college was useful and the practical knowledge of how to apply and get aid (or that sufficient aid would be available).

Here's where affirmative action can help--by seeding various communities with successful graduates who will give evidence that it both can be done and will be beneficial to the individual, and who can provide help in doing it.

Surely some individuals are using the library, etc.--but we're talking about large groups of people, and how to make a difference for those large groups. You focus too much on individual inequities I think without considering the value of having college graduates or more generally professionals seeded throughout all communities rather than 'clustered' in certain areas. That simply exaggerates the inequities as time goes on.

I might add that those who live in poor neighborhoods have worse schools and are at a disadvantage compared to those in richer neighbrohoods. Isn't this unfair to the kids? Is it fair for you to demand that they work harder? As individuals it may behoove them to do so--but doesn't the unfairness bother you? School funding in the U.S. is weighted towards the haves...this is an unfair and unstable situation.

I suspect the claim that 'they' cannot read is exaggerated. One might also ask further about role models in the neighborhood. Kids learn what they see!

The fact is, education and inititive = success. The harder and smarter you work, the more likely you will succeed.

Yes, I agree. But not everyone starts from the same spot. If someone attends a poor school, they're being provided with a worse education. Can you blame some for taking away the message that an education is over-rated? Would it be clear to them that an education is so good?

My opinion is, and has been, no matter how much you spend, if folks dont want to get off their asses, you are wasting your money.

I agree.

Someone who applies to college, or for a job, is taking some initiative--they are trying to do something. Is that money wasted as well?

 

[J-kid]

Do you know what is really wrong how they let people into colleges and jobs because of there skin color that is conplete ******** it gos agaist everything this country stands for.

Say i forinstince since i am brown but not enough to be considerd a manority went to a job and i am more quilified then someone else trying to get the same job of me who is a darker skin color.

Lets pretend i worked twice as hard as him/her and am far more skilled. Now lets say they need 1 manority because of the goverment in the office so should he/she get the job instead of me???????

That is not right and the logic behind it is flawed. Not only is that being prejetice vs me for being white but it gives someone else special rights over me.


THIS IS not fair and i heard they are trying to get rid of it and i hope they do.:shrug:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Just an addition to my previous statement.

Of the 3 schools in that neighborhood,

1 is a montosori (sp) school.
1 is the performing arts school
1 is a magnet school.

They get a good amount of funding, and especially in the case of the magnet school, they had a computer network in house back in 1983. (I know..I hacked it. CTRL-E is your friend. )
I graduated from there (Jr. Honor Society) in 1984...My sister in 1988.


Put yourself into this position:
You are an angry young black child. Your family and friends have 'brainwashed' you with the 'man be keeping us down' tale. You cant read or write because for whatever reason, you haven't logged many hours in a school in the mood to learn.

Will you listen to Ross Perot? The white guy who looks like a ferengi? Will you listen to GW Bush? The guy who looks like the MAD magazine dude?

Probably not.

So, if 'black america' wants to see an end to its problems, then 'black america' needs to step forward and take control of it.

They need to encourage their children and adults to learn to read and write and speak English.

They need to encourage people to care for their homes and neighborhoods.

They need to care for their own. There are thousands and thousands of sucessful blacks in this country. Many of them do give back, but many do not.

They need to take pride in themselves and in their work. (I have this same issue with teenagers today).

Too few blacks on the police force? Get more blacks through school and into the academy.

Too few blacks in office? Get more of em educated, and on the campaign trail.

Stop thinking like a 'minority' and start thinking about what a 'majority' effort can do.

Weither you think you can or think you cant, youre right. The power of your mind holds you back. Too many promising young black children fail because they get hit with too many negatives, by their own. Own what? Own friends, own family, own 'people' if you will.

I'll be blunt, I'd love to see a black female president. I've rarely encountered a more potent combination when focus (and pissed). Add to that an asian VP. I think the combination would do wonders to reenergize this country, and take it to the next level. But, make em folks who came up the hardway. We've tried the 'rich family money' folks....lets try the self-made folks.

:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Let's examine, for only a millisecond, the effect of popular culture on the rest of society...

When we pay grown men who play children's games more money than our teachers, we have problems.

When we idolize ex-criminals, and rather than put them behind bars we put them on stage, we have problems.

When we sentence entertainers to a lesser form of punishment because they really sound sincere when they apologize for breaking the law for the 39th time, but crucify the common person for their 1st or 2nd offense, we have problems.

Bottom line - the American Empire, like its ancestor the Roman Empire, is on its down slope. As with its ancestor, complacency has arisen on the heels of success, and we are rapidly dwindling away without the adherence to the tenets that got us there in the first place.

Let's just stop the social critique at this point and agree that throwing away money by repaying a non-existent debt is about the best we are going to get... Hearing all the other problems tossed up just makes me want to hang my head in shame by seeing how far we have fallen... We will never correct half of the ills that have befallen our nation, much less do right by all of our citizens. We have to just do the best we can by each other for the time being...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
They need to care for their own.

Aren't they our own too?