G
GouRonin
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I can't find my "Infinite Insights" book at the moment. Anyone have the list of titles that go with Rank at the black levels?
Thanx.
:uhoh:
Thanx.
:uhoh:
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GouRonin
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- #2
If you think about it, these books are close to at least 11 years old. They're still an ok read, although a bit "wordy," but what changes do you think would have been made to the system by now?
I myself think they would have gone to the 10/16/20 technique bel system. I also think that there would be a bigger emphasis on nerve strikes within the techniques, (BUT NOT TO THE EXCEPTION OF PLACING ALL THE IMPORTANCE ON THEM) more joint locks and grappling, and a greater emphasis on knife and stickwork.
Any thoughts?
I myself think they would have gone to the 10/16/20 technique bel system. I also think that there would be a bigger emphasis on nerve strikes within the techniques, (BUT NOT TO THE EXCEPTION OF PLACING ALL THE IMPORTANCE ON THEM) more joint locks and grappling, and a greater emphasis on knife and stickwork.
Any thoughts?
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GouRonin
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- Thread Starter
- #3
No more puffy than any other art. There are titles and crap all over the place. Guru, Shihan, Sensei, Sifu, Punong Guru, Professor, Datu.
I think they maybe sound odd to you because you don't hear them regularily. For me, the arnis titles sound funny.
Other than that you have to remember that Parker wanted to make the art more "American" because that is where he was and wanted it to be. That is why the new titles where created.
The curriculum of Kenpo is very patterned and extensive, almost military like.
I think they maybe sound odd to you because you don't hear them regularily. For me, the arnis titles sound funny.
Other than that you have to remember that Parker wanted to make the art more "American" because that is where he was and wanted it to be. That is why the new titles where created.
The curriculum of Kenpo is very patterned and extensive, almost military like.
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GouRonin
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- Thread Starter
- #4
They are really only formal titles. Most of the people who have them prefer "Mr." or "Mrs" etc because those are the titles we use in our society. In fact most American Kenpo schools will not use the word "Sensei" or Sifu" for the most part as Parker wanted to get away from the asian use of them and go with what we as a society use.
Again, he called it "American Kenpo" for this reason. One thing about them that I do like is that he made 1st black a Junior instructor. This sort of de-mystified the idea of a Black belt being all powerful. he really did a lot of work de-mystifying the arts and trying to make them into the science they are.
:asian:
Again, he called it "American Kenpo" for this reason. One thing about them that I do like is that he made 1st black a Junior instructor. This sort of de-mystified the idea of a Black belt being all powerful. he really did a lot of work de-mystifying the arts and trying to make them into the science they are.
:asian:
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Rob_Broad
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- Thread Starter
- #5
Titles are only a sign of respect if they are said with heart felt sincerity. If you say the title to someone it is respectful, if you insist on the title it is pompous.
Most of the time we callthe person Mr. or Ms. or Mrs. with their last name. That is respectful as well. Some people put too much stock into titles, it is a waste of breath for some.
When I teach I am Mr. Broad, I don't care who it is on my floor, during that time that is my name. When I am off the floor, I am Rob. I have been called many other names, but lets just stick with Rob.
Yes the whore lives
Most of the time we callthe person Mr. or Ms. or Mrs. with their last name. That is respectful as well. Some people put too much stock into titles, it is a waste of breath for some.
When I teach I am Mr. Broad, I don't care who it is on my floor, during that time that is my name. When I am off the floor, I am Rob. I have been called many other names, but lets just stick with Rob.
Yes the whore lives
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Not Important
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- #6
Actually the titles have change alot over the years, back in the late 60's and early 70's 3rd degree black belts were called Masters.
Proffesor has always been above Master. Many people also call the following.
8th: Associate Master of the Arts,
9th: Master of the Arts,
10th: Grand Master of the Arts,
and Senior Grand Master of the Arts reserved only for the founder of a system.
The Infinite Insights Into Kenpo were all written at least 10 years before they were published, so much of the information contained in them is also dated.
Proffesor has always been above Master. Many people also call the following.
8th: Associate Master of the Arts,
9th: Master of the Arts,
10th: Grand Master of the Arts,
and Senior Grand Master of the Arts reserved only for the founder of a system.
The Infinite Insights Into Kenpo were all written at least 10 years before they were published, so much of the information contained in them is also dated.
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GouRonin
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- #7
If people want to use their dojo for that, hell, it's their school. I used to be opposed it until I remembered, you reap what you sow.
I mean, IF Tatum was like that, what about it? I never hear anything bad about his Kenpo.
If you don't like what he does, don't train there. I have left schools for similar reasons. I didn't like it so I left people who didn't mind it to their own.
I mean, IF Tatum was like that, what about it? I never hear anything bad about his Kenpo.
If you don't like what he does, don't train there. I have left schools for similar reasons. I didn't like it so I left people who didn't mind it to their own.
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GouRonin
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- #8
Remember our conversation in the restaurant? I found that in "Triggered Salute" that the bicep insert was taking away my technique as I wanted it. But if I change the angle of the strike I can use it to not only check the arm but also use opposing forces. Thanks for giving me a outside look at what I was doing!
:iws:
:iws:
I must say, this reads like puffery. Was it really necessary for someone to create a new title for each and every one of the ten ranks? I think I'd rather be a Senior Professor than an Associate Master of the Arts, from the sound of it. I really don't mean to insult anyone's art, but it seems so self-important to generate this list of titles that is so extensive, so patterned, and so unconnected to the ranks that they are difficult to remember.
Perhaps there is some of that, but I am not aware of another art that has a separate title for each and every one of the ten degrees of black belt. I imagine there are others; I just can't name one. Also, bear in mind that some of the titles you cite--shihan, datu--are not given automatically with a promotion to every person but rather as a separate honor to some.
Yes, I can understand that. It's hard making a new tradition. This one seems especially forced. Are these titles often used, say in introducing a person or when listing their name?
I wasn't fully aware of this, though it sounds somewhat familiar. This makes a bit more sense, then.
Yes, I can picture them--I do remember seeing those pictures.
What are the conventions for the use of GM and SGM (which I understand means either Supreme or SeniorGrandmaster) in kenpo? Are they for 10th degrees only as Not Important suggests?
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KenpoGirl
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- #13
I dug out my infinite Insights volumes and blew the dust off of them. So that I can help you out.
Kenpo Black Belt Titles are as follows:
JI (Junior Instructor) if he or she is a first degree Black Belt
AI (Associate Instructor) for a second degree Black Belt
HI (Head Instructor) for a third degree Black Belt
SI (Senior Instructor) for a forth degree Black Belt
AP (Associate Professor) for a fifth degree Black Belt
P (Professor) for a sixth degree Black Belts
SP (Senior Professor) for those reaching seventh degree Black Belt
AMA (Associate Master of the Arts) for an eighth degree Black Belt
MA (Master of the Arts) for an ninth degree Black Belt
SMA (Senior Master of the Arts) for a tenth degree Black Belt.
Hope this helps.
d
Kenpo Black Belt Titles are as follows:
JI (Junior Instructor) if he or she is a first degree Black Belt
AI (Associate Instructor) for a second degree Black Belt
HI (Head Instructor) for a third degree Black Belt
SI (Senior Instructor) for a forth degree Black Belt
AP (Associate Professor) for a fifth degree Black Belt
P (Professor) for a sixth degree Black Belts
SP (Senior Professor) for those reaching seventh degree Black Belt
AMA (Associate Master of the Arts) for an eighth degree Black Belt
MA (Master of the Arts) for an ninth degree Black Belt
SMA (Senior Master of the Arts) for a tenth degree Black Belt.
Hope this helps.
d
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Kenpo viking
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- #14
I don't train American kenpo karate. I train Ed Parker's Kenpo karate.
which is a big diferents in my eyes. Ed Parker's kenpo left the americas long ago about 40 year ago.
I'm not much for halliluja U.S.A it's all about an art developed by a man not a nation. America can not take credit for this. But I understand in there internal identification process in the US the name came about.
I train a system. Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate period
And I train and teach it in Sweden and in any other place that are interested to see my personal style of the art ( my interpretation).
Which has been formed by many instructors during the years.
Respectfully
Ingmar Johansson
Sweden
:angel: :viking3: :viking2: :mp5:
which is a big diferents in my eyes. Ed Parker's kenpo left the americas long ago about 40 year ago.
I'm not much for halliluja U.S.A it's all about an art developed by a man not a nation. America can not take credit for this. But I understand in there internal identification process in the US the name came about.
I train a system. Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate period
And I train and teach it in Sweden and in any other place that are interested to see my personal style of the art ( my interpretation).
Which has been formed by many instructors during the years.
Respectfully
Ingmar Johansson
Sweden
:angel: :viking3: :viking2: :mp5:
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Kenpo viking
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- Thread Starter
- #15
Thank you Dennis for your historical input. It was interesting to read that Mr Parker took out the word karate in a very early stage.
I know there is a big diferent between our countries. Karate is in many peoples ears a negative word here in Sweden. Therefore we have taken out the word from our name. Our schools name is Kenpo self-defence studio and it has done us very good.
And not signing my letters with Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate and leave the word karate out is not a bad idea.
The word karate make me think on a hard Japanese system with very low stances. Something we don't do. I feel the word karate gives us unjust name for something we are not.
I have to think a little on the idea to only sign my letters with Ed Parker's Kenpo. That is food for thought.
I agree no organisation or name can change the feelings I have for my martial art friends independent what they call themselves.
Ones again thank you for your kind words.
Respectfully
Ingmar Johansson
Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate Sweden
:asian: :rtfm: :viking2: :viking3: :asian:
I know there is a big diferent between our countries. Karate is in many peoples ears a negative word here in Sweden. Therefore we have taken out the word from our name. Our schools name is Kenpo self-defence studio and it has done us very good.
And not signing my letters with Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate and leave the word karate out is not a bad idea.
The word karate make me think on a hard Japanese system with very low stances. Something we don't do. I feel the word karate gives us unjust name for something we are not.
I have to think a little on the idea to only sign my letters with Ed Parker's Kenpo. That is food for thought.
I agree no organisation or name can change the feelings I have for my martial art friends independent what they call themselves.
Ones again thank you for your kind words.
Respectfully
Ingmar Johansson
Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate Sweden
:asian: :rtfm: :viking2: :viking3: :asian:
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vincefuess
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- Thread Starter
- #16
At the time SGM Parker was "assembling" these various aspects of the art, it was important to him give the training sort of a collegiate atmosphere. This served the purpose of seperating AK from the traditional oriental (as it was called then) martial arts in it's methods, as well as add a certain degree of "scholarly class" so they wouldn't be perceived as a bunch of ***-kicking ruffians.
Around this same time, wearing the school patch on the breast of a smart looking sport coat was also the chic, lending a certain air of "fraternity" or "exclusive club" effect. Look at the old pics from the late 60s- anybody who was anybody wore these suits and ties with the "crest-breast" thing.
It was all part of elevating *** kicking to a scholarly and dignified level.
Around this same time, wearing the school patch on the breast of a smart looking sport coat was also the chic, lending a certain air of "fraternity" or "exclusive club" effect. Look at the old pics from the late 60s- anybody who was anybody wore these suits and ties with the "crest-breast" thing.
It was all part of elevating *** kicking to a scholarly and dignified level.
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vincefuess
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- #17
In Infinite Insights (whichever volume the rank titles are listed), SGM Parker explains his reasoning in assigning these titles to the various ranks. I gave you my "nutshell version". SGM Parker was very keen on higher education, he was quite a mover and shaker at Brigham Young University when he was there! His wife tells of those days in her book "Memories of Ed Parker".
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vincefuess
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- #18
At first it was viewed as evil, but with an honest eye one sees that it has always been the case, and ever shall be. The martial arts have always split and divided, just as our own cells do. Purists want a pure source, but there really is no such thing. As knowledge is handed down, it is colored by those who hand it down. Once in awhile, we are blessed with a man like Ed Parker who is capable of encompassing and translating knowledge in such a manner as to be truly revolutionary. He took what he (at first) learned from Chow and revolutionized it- not only that- but he was a great communicator and teacher. He himself presented the material as a flowing, learning, changing, evolving thing.
It is a waste of time to dispute- it is better to absorb and learn. I do not posess the mind or skill of Ed Parker, and I will never make an impact on the world like he did. BUT- Kenpo is a part of me, and I share it how I can with those I can. I'm okay with that.
One legacy Ed Paker left for us is that of open-mindedness tempered with wisdom. Most everyone you meet has something to offer, just be willing to absorb it. I never met the man, but I feel he would agree with that statement. His teachings meant different things to different people, but they were HUGE nonethe less. I think that is a bigger picture.
Sorry- I am feeling particularly introspective tonight.
Vince
It is a waste of time to dispute- it is better to absorb and learn. I do not posess the mind or skill of Ed Parker, and I will never make an impact on the world like he did. BUT- Kenpo is a part of me, and I share it how I can with those I can. I'm okay with that.
One legacy Ed Paker left for us is that of open-mindedness tempered with wisdom. Most everyone you meet has something to offer, just be willing to absorb it. I never met the man, but I feel he would agree with that statement. His teachings meant different things to different people, but they were HUGE nonethe less. I think that is a bigger picture.
Sorry- I am feeling particularly introspective tonight.
Vince
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vincefuess
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- Thread Starter
- #19
I heard through a few other Kenpoists that Tatum had fallen out with Mr. Parker over Tatum's zeal for having sex with students- one of whom got mad and turned things ugly. This is only hearsay, an I am posting it here to see if any of you can either dispell it or give it credence.
I heard this from a couple of totally unrelated sources, so it is either a fairly widespread rumor, or perhaps true.
I had an instructor once who used his school as a meat market and it caused tons of trouble. The temptation can be great, but it must be avoided.
I heard this from a couple of totally unrelated sources, so it is either a fairly widespread rumor, or perhaps true.
I had an instructor once who used his school as a meat market and it caused tons of trouble. The temptation can be great, but it must be avoided.
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Chiduce
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- #20
I would just like to know if this title ranking is universal among the majority of the American Kenpo Schools because Master Tatum gives the 3rd Dan the Senior Title And 4th Dan the Head Instructor Title. This could be a misprint? The 10th Dan has no title. It just states that " The rank is so respected by peers and students that the persons word affects the course of the art'. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
