question about sensei's favorites

[DArnold]

I think it's very easy to say "if you know you've earnt yr own belt, why do you care if someone else passes easy or progresses more rapidly than you?" I actually think it's quite a challenging thing to accept things "as they are", especially if there is a perceived injustice involved. It's also quite daunting to gain a new perspective on what those belts mean to us... after all, sooner or later we all have to uncouple our training goals from an external reward/recognition system. In a way, i reckon getting beyond the various meanings of yr belt is almost like a "beltless test"... where only you can decide whether you've passed or not.

Yes, but this is a lesson most juniors must learn.

There will always be someone better and then you get discouraged and quite.

There will always be someone worse, then you get big headed and your seniors need to take care of this (the nail that sticks out gets pounded in)

Most blackblets learn the lesson that "What is better?"

If you and I are both promoted to Il Dan at the same time, and you can kick faster than me, and I can spar better than you, and you can do patterns better than me, and I can break better than you, and you can teach better than me....

Then who is better?

This is why MMA is a joke to Martial Artists as it is mearly a small part of the Martial Arts, tested under certain rules. No more a test than a show. What if we both wrote out our names, and then decided who courld write better (novels, dissertations...) based on this one little thing.

I grant you there are perceived injustices, and there may even be injustices, but there is no black and white. It is not, and has never been up to a student whom else an instructor promotes and why. Most of the times this is mearly projecting a situation on yourself, that you really know nothing about.

You let the situation controll you.

I could easly show you why this student is letting the situation controll him.

What if, after complaining, that life is not fair to the instructor, the instructor told you that this student had 3 months to live because they had cancer so that is what his decision was made on.

A) It is none of your business as a student.
B) You would feel like an idiot because you let the situation controll you instead of you controlling you.

This is a hypothetical but it goes to show that you are not the instructor and do not know the reasons why the decision is made.

Only with expectations come disapointments.

 

[jks9199]

I think it's very easy to say "if you know you've earnt yr own belt, why do you care if someone else passes easy or progresses more rapidly than you?" I actually think it's quite a challenging thing to accept things "as they are", especially if there is a perceived injustice involved. It's also quite daunting to gain a new perspective on what those belts mean to us... after all, sooner or later we all have to uncouple our training goals from an external reward/recognition system. In a way, i reckon getting beyond the various meanings of yr belt is almost like a "beltless test"... where only you can decide whether you've passed or not.

Just to be clear --

I'm not the font of wisdom and maturity you may think I am!

There are plenty of times when I grumble or complain... And part of the reason I haven't been promoted in 8 or 9 years is because I'm being stubborn about our testing process.

There are plenty of folks I've looked at and gone "how did they get promoted?", too. But the bottom line is that it wasn't my decision.

I shot through the lower belt ranks; I got promoted pretty much every year. Then I spent several years as brown... Which leads to another point. The student that prompted the question may "stall out" or even have been promoted to their level of incompetence... Sometimes, you move a student to a level that they'll learn from, even though they aren't really ready yet. Or because you know that they won't ever move up any further...

 

[qi-tah]

Yes, but this is a lesson most juniors must learn.

There will always be someone better and then you get discouraged and quite.

There will always be someone worse, then you get big headed and your seniors need to take care of this (the nail that sticks out gets pounded in)

Most blackblets learn the lesson that "What is better?"

If you and I are both promoted to Il Dan at the same time, and you can kick faster than me, and I can spar better than you, and you can do patterns better than me, and I can break better than you, and you can teach better than me....

Then who is better?

This is why MMA is a joke to Martial Artists as it is mearly a small part of the Martial Arts, tested under certain rules. No more a test than a show. What if we both wrote out our names, and then decided who courld write better (novels, dissertations...) based on this one little thing.

I grant you there are perceived injustices, and there may even be injustices, but there is no black and white. It is not, and has never been up to a student whom else an instructor promotes and why. Most of the times this is mearly projecting a situation on yourself, that you really know nothing about.

You let the situation controll you.

I could easly show you why this student is letting the situation controll him.

What if, after complaining, that life is not fair to the instructor, the instructor told you that this student had 3 months to live because they had cancer so that is what his decision was made on.

A) It is none of your business as a student.
B) You would feel like an idiot because you let the situation controll you instead of you controlling you.

This is a hypothetical but it goes to show that you are not the instructor and do not know the reasons why the decision is made.

Only with expectations come disapointments.

Ummm... i'm not quite sure what you thought i was trying to say? I agree with you wholeheartedly that comparing yrself to others at yr school (whether based on rank or not) and making yr own judgements on the merits of grading etc are a rather futile exercises in the grand scheme of things. What i was trying to say was that it's not always that easy to set aside comparisons and rank in relation to yr own training goals, especially in a highly heirarchical "belted" MA. As human beings we are naturally discriminating, it's part of our makeup, and to have very tangible things like belts and tests etc to focus our powers of discrimination on can really help us as beginners and intermediates - but they are also very powerful attachments as well. I don't think that it is just a simple matter of "attitude" (although that's part of it) to relegate that focus as secondary to our own internal goals and motavations for practice. I personally believe that something has to grow from within to supplant that external system. I don't think someone should be castigated simply for questioning a grading or rank that they have invested a lot of pride and focus in - it's just a phase of development that most MA'ists go through... sometimes more than once! :asian:

 

[DArnold]

Ok,
Let me put it in simpler terms.

Who are you there for?

 

[qi-tah]

Just to be clear --

I'm not the font of wisdom and maturity you may think I am!

Oh ya, who of us is mate!

There are plenty of times when I grumble or complain... And part of the reason I haven't been promoted in 8 or 9 years is because I'm being stubborn about our testing process.

There are plenty of folks I've looked at and gone "how did they get promoted?", too. But the bottom line is that it wasn't my decision.

I shot through the lower belt ranks; I got promoted pretty much every year. Then I spent several years as brown... Which leads to another point. The student that prompted the question may "stall out" or even have been promoted to their level of incompetence... Sometimes, you move a student to a level that they'll learn from, even though they aren't really ready yet. Or because you know that they won't ever move up any further...

That's the one. Sometimes i think that we want our gradings to be set in stone and the same for everyone b/cause we are unsure about how to judge ourselves? But if we are dedicated then there are years ahead of us to figure that one out!

 

[kingkong89]

this faorite does not work harder he is pretty much babbied through. i work harder at somethng probably three or four times than he does. but like some of you said i shouldn't not worry about it, and he is not passing me nor do i and other fellow black belts think he is close to me.

 

[tsd]

Many years ago, I did have this happen to me...
...but I did bring the matter up with mine. Here is what I was told: You come to my dojo to toughen up before going into the Army. I think we gave you enough of that last month, didn't we? This other guy comes here for 'self-esteem', the kind you get from receiving colored belts...Plus, his mother wants an hour and a half alone to do who knows what. So, the way I see it, I gave both of you what you are looking for.

My SBN once held EDan for a friend of mine for a very long time. In retrospect, the reasons were not technique and training but heart and soul. I believe that in this case, the candidate was one of his first students, probably a favorites and SBN's love and concern for the student were at the forefront of the decision. I also believe that this was a good thing for that student.

I guess what I am trying to say is, I would rather have my teacher really teaching me not only the physical but the spiritual and emotional strength of Black Belt. If waiting on rank is one of the ways that that is done, so be it.

There is a lesson in everything.

 

[jks9199]

this faorite does not work harder he is pretty much babbied through. i work harder at somethng probably three or four times than he does. but like some of you said i shouldn't not worry about it, and he is not passing me nor do i and other fellow black belts think he is close to me.

The thing I most fear is when my instructor STOPS being hard on me, and correcting me or telling me when I'm wrong.

He's not a big one for telling you to get lost -- he simply stops telling you anything.

 

[chinto01]

This is a great topic. My friend and I debate this point on a regular basis. As a teacher myself I can tell you that there are"favorites" we all know this. Wether we do it intentionally or not is another issue. You are always going to give some students a little extra if they ask a question on the side. Maybe a little more in depth question by the student can be seen as a "favorite" when the instructor takes the extra time to answer it after class showing things not taught in class. Then there are the cases where a teacher will intentionally pull a student or students aside to work with them a little more without asking some to join in. This will seem unfair to the students left out so let me offer an explanation or what mine is.

As a teacher there are some students who you feel will excel faster and appreciate deeper your time spent with them. These are the students who actually go home and practice what you did the class before and have retained the material taught. They are the ones who show up 1/2 hr early to help out with a class and stay a little late to make sure none of the others need help with some of the lesson taught that night. Do I have favorites? Absolutley!! They are the ones who have a fire in their eyes that want more, they are sponges and they deserve more time. That being said are they treated differently? YES!! I am harder in them in class than anyone else because I give them the "extra" they ask for. Let's be honest some students are there just taking up space. As an instructor why should we give extra to a student who may not be there a month from now. I know this all sounds very harsh but I would rather spend my time with someone who really deserves the extra instead of those who are just passing by.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Sukerkin]

I find a fair bit to empathise with in the above, Chinto and concurr that there is a world of difference between catering to the needs of the keenest students and simply promoting someone up because you know his dad etc.

Each students requirements are going to be different when it comes to tuition and sorting out who needs what is a skill all of it's own - it's what denotes the good sensei from the competent martial artist who shows people how to do things.

Getting that input/output right is not an easy thing and is complicated by the fact that each student will 'read' a situation differently and complicated even further by inter-personal problems between students.

So, if your sensei tells you to get on with practising such and such a kata set whilst he works with someone else one-on-one, how do you take it?

Is it that your sensei believes that you are not worth the time teaching and he'd rather work with a student he favours more who might actually amount to something?

Or is it that your sensei knows that you have a sense of what you need to work on in the kata set and can trust you to apply yourself to it whilst he helps out another student who needs a bit of a leg-up to stay 'on program'?

How would your answer to this question be affected if you had a personal difference with the other student?

Like any social situation, it's all going to be a matter of perspective and empathy.

Age plays a role too, I think, as I remember in years gone by feeling somewhat sidelined when the senior instructor would go and work with those who were willing to win trophies for the club whilst I, who thought competitions were a debasement of the art (can't you tell I was much younger then ), was left to work with some of the 'coloured belt' students.

Looking back at it with the advantage of a couple of decades I can see that the situation was nothing like as 'slighting' as I felt it to be back then. The ability to step outside of your own ego is a great boon and a blessing when dealing with such circumstances as it allows you to assess events from more than just your own point of view.

Anyhow, waxing philosophical and rambling now so time to lift my fingers away from the keyboard :lol:.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Think ya might be taking the wrong point of view on this one. Being one of Sensei's favourites doesn't mean getting a smoother ride, it means a tougher one. I

I am living proof of that statement and so are the others my instructor took as his favorites over the years. We had to work harder and more was expected of us all the time. We did not get to have an "off day", if we where at class and we where expected to be yhere, we had to be ready to do our best and then some all of the time.

 

[bluemtn]

I agree with the statement, that being a "favorite" doesn't mean a smooth and easy ride. I've seen some get promoted fairly fast, and some take a long time. It's been explained to me like this: an instructor knows what your best is, and can (at times) see whether or not you can be better than what your showing. If you can be much better, you won't get promoted until you reach that certain level. Others on the other hand, really don't give a hill of beans about their training, and won't even try, and the instructor may see that too, and will push them so far. If they get promoted faster, so what. You know how hard you've trained.

 

[Monadnock]

Rank is a personal link between teacher and student. We should focus more on our own practice then what the other guy is wearing.

 

[ehsen]

Its not just martial arts. It happens in every field. Few years back when I was in high school, I was the favorite of my teacher who used to teach me Financial Accounting. He liked me because I never miss a single class in 2 years. When I come out every morning I show him more then he taught me last day.
I scored 94% in exams whereas rest of the class didn't cross 70%.

Personally I don't see it a problematic if someone's is sensei's favorite.

 

[kingkong89]

as you said and others say a belt is just nothithing more than a piec of cloth a meaningless somewhat because if you think about it a blackbelt is like the certificate. if you have it then that doesn't mean that you are better or worse than a lower belt. i have seen many blackbelts that are n o better than a blue belt.