Question about modern day Ninjutsu and it's roots...

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Coker101, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. Coker101

    Coker101 Orange Belt

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    Not knowing anything about it but seeing 2 different schools that are close enough to me to train at, I thought I would ask....is there any proof that what you guys are training in really ties back to the old clans of ninja in Japan?

    I'm not suggesting that it doesn't, I'm just honestly asking out of curiosity where the art comes from.


    In my area there is a the BUJINKAN GALVESTON DOJO (no website....very stealthy of them) and http://www.pasadenadojo.com/ :)




    Thanks. :)
     
  2. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Honestly, that's quite a big question, and already includes a range of assumptions that might not be entirely accurate... such as the idea of there being "old ninja clans" in the first place...

    But, to keep it relatively short, what is taught under the banner name of "Ninjutsu" today is actually a collection of different (but related in a number of cases) martial and ninjutsu systems which have a variety of histories (in many cases embellished at the very least). Some of these systems (Takagi Yoshin Ryu, Kukishinden Ryu, and likely Shinden Fudo Ryu) are verified and known outside of the "Ninjutsu" schools, either as alternate lines, or related arts (and, if dealing with the Genbukan, the list of otherwise recognized systems grows, including Asayama Ichiden Ryu, Daito Ryu, Bokuden Ryu, and a few more). The more "ninja" systems (Togakure Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Koto Ryu etc) are more problematic in terms of historical verification, due to the aforementioned embellishment, combined with gaps and, well, errors in given history. There's a fair bit of circumstantial evidence that supports the systems, the methods largely fit what would be expected, and so on.

    From there, a number within the Bujinkan have claimed to see particular evidence... but never give details. Not really sure why not, myself...

    Oh, and for the record, what's taught in the Bujinkan today (Budo Taijutsu) may be sourced from the systems... but it really isn't the same thing. What you see in most Bujinkan schools (that I've encountered) is really what is in the Ryu (systems) themselves, on a range of levels....
     
  3. Coker101

    Coker101 Orange Belt

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    Sounds....complicated.
     
  4. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Ha, yeah... it is....
     
  5. Hatsie

    Hatsie Yellow Belt

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    Every style out there is made up. Question is how long ago and by whom ? ( meaning was it hundreds of years ago by accomplished persons, or a few years back and still under construction) also has it ever been used in anger?

    Why not try both places and see what you like and see if you feel what they are selling is of benifit to you.

    good luck
     
  6. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Out of interest, how does it being used in anger mean anything? Oh, and I'd also argue the idea of "all systems are 'made up'", but that could most likely be a semantic use of language thing...
     
  7. Hatsie

    Hatsie Yellow Belt

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    Just typed a reply and its gone?!?

    by 'used in anger' I really meant used in real combat and hopefully successfully. It was a turn of phrase, I know it doesn't gel with 'mushin'

    as for 'made up' would developed suit you better?
     
  8. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Ha, yeah, "developed" I feel is far more accurate... "made up" infers invented without basis, whereas most arts that have that as their origin tend towards the Ashida Kim ilk.... at least with me. As far as "used in anger", I figured that's what you meant... but I'd still ask why that's a real factor? I can see it being fairly irrelevant, honestly... as it doesn't really say anything about the art, it's methodology, it's reasonings, it's approach, or pretty much anything else... and denies the actual reasons for the development of many (the majority, perhaps) of the arts out there... especially many of the Japanese ones (I can really only think of a couple of exceptions, and they might have started with some practical lessons, but developed a fair bit beyond that pretty quickly, recognizing that that was a very limited way to look at things).
     
  9. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    As Hatsie said try out both and see what works best for you. Personally, I think being in the Bujinkan and having a tie to Hatsumi Sensei is the best way to go but give them both a try and see which one you like!
     

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