Punching

[Gorilla]

We are able to use different guard and different stances based on sport and circumstance....sorry. And we are not just WTF people...

 

[Gorilla]

By the way...my kids use a high guard quite often in Tkd matches....

 

[Kframe]

I was hoping for more specifics.

 

[Gorilla]

I was hoping for more specifics.

Sorry to disappoint... but you make allot of definitive statements...I can only assume that you are the final world!


The more I think about it you guys are right all WTF Tkd fighter can't defend themselves...we are never leaving the house based on our poor muscle memory and bad technique... Just to dangerous....must start training in self defense full time before our ultimate demise!

Thanks for saving us!!!!

I fell down editing this post...Thank god I was in the living room!

 

[Jaeimseu]

If a WTF match doesn't resemble an actual "fight," why must a WTF fighter react in an "Olympic" stance? If they are attacked in the street by a guy wearing a white dobok and a hogu, maybe they will, but I think there is a big difference between the two situations. I remember playing flag football in PE class when I was in high school. There were actual football players playing with us who practiced everyday to hit the guy carrying the ball, but nobody got hit in the game.

People like to use this "fight like you train" line, but in my opinion it's used to often and in too many situations.

 

[Kframe]

So your saying that despite, your olymic styling, you can still employ a normal guard and that said guard is in fact in your muscle memory?

 

[Gorilla]

So your saying that despite, your olymic styling, you can still employ a normal guard and that said guard is in fact in your muscle memory?

We train in multiple martial arts so yes!!!!!

You refer to " Olympic Styling" an odd way to put it BTW...as some sort of illness! Very funny!

 

[Cyriacus]

Cyracius every one of my boxing and mma coach's teach that under no cicumstance is my guard to be down. Now my mma guard and my boxing only guard are different. Boxing guard above shoulders, mma below but that is still a high guard. There is lots of boxing and mma guards, none of them at the hips. Except for certain stratagies that only get employed for short periods, such as purposely dangling one hand down to invite body shots, setting up your planned counter attack. That stance is not how one would fight the whole fight............

Thats you, and i know the benefits of having your hands up. But what about the ones who do have their hands down around their hips for most of the fight?

 

[Gorilla]

K-frame you are an MMA guy! Benson Henderson and Anderson Silva employ a wide variety of guards...from low below the hips to a high guard...both are Tkd BB! So look them up on YOUTUBE!

 

[ATC]

Gorilla, what im saying is, the stance you spend the most time in is the stance you will default to when the crud hits the fan. How much time, in a regular WTF training session is spent using regular fight stance and olympic stance? How do you go about building muscle memory with the stance you dont sparr with? I have yet to see any of you wtf people address that.

Muscle Memory is nothing more than enough repetitions at something that you can then do it instinctively. It is not real memory. If we were to take your logic of muscle memory then no one would ever learn to play more than one instrument. Playing an instrument such as the guitar or piano is nothing more than muscle memory. If you play both you simply have muscle memory for two things.

Definition looked up for muscle memory - Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems. Examples of muscle memory are found in many everyday activities that become automatic and improve with practice, such as riding a bicycle, typing on a keyboard, typing in a PIN, playing a melody or phrase on a musical instrument, playing video games, or performing different algorithms for a Rubik's Cube.

If one practices any set of multiple sports they will develop muscle memory for both sports and may find that each actually help one another.

You can't think of muscle memory as true memory because it is not.

I was a boxer before I did and taught TKD and can switch between both with no problem. I never kicked anyone while boxing them and never punched anyone in the face while sparring them under WTF rules. And my boxing stance is nothing like my TKD sparring stance.

 

[Earl Weiss]

..........
Good luck with that as a defence in court.

It is better to be tried by 12 tha carried by 6. There are also ways to set up the pre emptive attack (which may or may not be available) so that it will appear to witnesses as though it's a reaction as opposed to an action.

 

[Earl Weiss]

What about the Boxers and MMA fighters who fight with their hands down?

They are usualy referred to as the loser. (Not counting when they are out range. )

 

[Earl Weiss]

Seems Gorilla and Kframe are talkingpast each other.

Kframe adresses WTF style fighters who train predominantely or exclusively for that sport. We know there are plenty out there and they have certain habits that woud be difficult to breeak and are counter productive for SD, and then we have Gorilla who seems to promote and teach a variety of sparring and SD tactics so that the WTF competition habit would not be exclusive and difficult to adjust for SD.

Seems you guys may agree more than you disagree.

 

[Cyriacus]

They are usualy referred to as the loser. (Not counting when they are out range. )

Optionally, Prince Naseem.

 

[mango.man]

Optionally, Prince Naseem.

Hmm, did he pick up that silly hip motion from Gel or did she pick it up from the prince? Does she still do that like she used to when she was fighting 10-13?

 

[Kframe]

I guess i should be specific. I feel that, with your hands way down at your hips, it would take to long to effect a defense. You can only evade, so much, sometimes you have to use a deflection.(talking punches and other hand techs) Seeing that im overweight(still working on that, i lost 120lbs got 100lbs to go) i find that i can only evade so much, and that i have to rely on deflections and parries alot more. Hence why i have such a issue with hands at my hips.

ATC When you talk about your TKD stance, do you mean olympic or just the general TKD fight stance? I have seen versions of the TKD fight stance(non olympic) that look very karate'ish. When startled which stance do you normal occupy?

Thanks for the look up of muscle memory, i didnt know that it was that complex.

My father weighed in on this as well. He sees nothing wrong with WTF style competition. He disagrees with people who only train the sport side and not the SD side, seeing as he did both and was very sucsessfull SD wise. This muddies the water for me to no end.

Can anyone point to any videos of WTF/kkw TKD self defense techniques(cant spell the Korean name) and 1 step and you know non sport stuff, while using the no hands guard or some version of a low guard?

 

[Gorilla]

K- frame...you don't use a low guard in self defense!

Some use it in competition!

We use a modified Karate guard in Tkd comp...something we developed from Shotokan....

 

[Gorilla]

Hmm, did he pick up that silly hip motion from Gel or did she pick it up from the prince? Does she still do that like she used to when she was fighting 10-13?

Garr has taken that out of her....she has learned allot at 14/17...her first year was brutal for her...but she never quit..she has had some success at Nationals but has fallen short at team trials!

Still a scrapper!

 

[Gorilla]

Master Weiss...my kids love martial arts they are fascinated by every aspect....my son has been doing it for 11 years....he has a very open mind he can understand different tech and strategy....he is focused on the sport side right now but does work on SD...the best evidence of this is after on two years of training in Karate ...he made the JR National team aa a Black Belt...that is very quick transition...

We are going to spar with a ITF Group in Las Vegas should be fun!

I am thinking that our TKD Karate mix might do well....we don't know the rules so it should be a learning experience...going in with a humble attitude hoping to learn some thing and make new friends...

 

[SPX]

I am thinking that our TKD Karate mix might do well....we don't know the rules so it should be a learning experience...going in with a humble attitude hoping to learn some thing and make new friends...

You really don't know the rules?

Just know that it's continuous (usually two two-minute rounds) with punches to the head allowed and kicks to the body and head allowed.