Punching and kicking speed.............

[jkd friend]

Is it in the release on the recoil? Some have it both ways but were does it count really, if you hit your target fast but have a slower recovery to your guard what good is speed in your release? You may not get what i am saying but read twice!

 

[Marginal]

Fast out and fast in is usually better.

That said, one guy I spar a lot likes to counter punch though, and I've found I can disrupt the counter most efficiently by leaving my arm out. Then I can deflect the incoming counter punch just by bending my elbow. Makes him fall short of the mark and sets up a retaliation for me.

 

[ACJ]

Depends on a lot of other factors: timing, accuracy, power, target, technique, context, etc.

For instance if you knock them out in one hit then you can take your sweet time with the return. Similar with hits that are very disruptive to their ability to fight back straight away.

In a sports context it might be point stop (bleargh) sparring, and if you are accurate you might not need to worry about return.

Maybe a hit in run tactic for SD.

 

[geezer]

Is it in the release on the recoil? Some have it both ways but were does it count really, if you hit your target fast but have a slower recovery to your guard what good is speed in your release? You may not get what i am saying but read twice!

OK, I read it twice and I'm still not sure I totally get your question. So if my answer doesn't make sense, that may be why.

Anyway, as you go by the name "JKD Friend" I'll assume you've had some exposure to Wing Chun/Wing Tsun, and that's pretty much where I'm coming from on this. In WC/WT you snap out the punch fast, but you don't pull it back hard as you might in some other styles. The whole chain-punching thing is based on a sort of bicycling movement with your punches shooting forward and then softly flowing back up underneath into a centerline chamber ready to shoot out again.

The point here is that the "yang" energy... the explosive force is directed forward into the strike, while the recoil is relaxed, "yin" energy. This relaxed recoil, combined with maximum economy of motion, make for a very fast recovery or return to chamber. Finally, the emphasis is always on aggressive forward pressure and advancing with next punch, not on jumping in and out. This makes the recoil less of a concern than how fast you can shoot out the next punch, maintaining an offensive blitz.

JKD, of course, is not WC/WT and involves a wider spectrum of ranges, techniques and strategies. Still, this approach might be helpful. For example, I've found it useful in my Eskrima, and pretty much anything else that trains "short power" where you don't need to pull way back to set up your next strike.

 

[jkd friend]

OK, I read it twice and I'm still not sure I totally get your question. So if my answer doesn't make sense, that may be why.

Anyway, as you go by the name "JKD Friend" I'll assume you've had some exposure to Wing Chun/Wing Tsun, and that's pretty much where I'm coming from on this. In WC/WT you snap out the punch fast, but you don't pull it back hard as you might in some other styles. The whole chain-punching thing is based on a sort of bicycling movement with your punches shooting forward and then softly flowing back up underneath into a centerline chamber ready to shoot out again.

The point here is that the "yang" energy... the explosive force is directed forward into the strike, while the recoil is relaxed, "yin" energy. This relaxed recoil, combined with maximum economy of motion, make for a very fast recovery or return to chamber. Finally, the emphasis is always on aggressive forward pressure and advancing with next punch, not on jumping in and out. This makes the recoil less of a concern than how fast you can shoot out the next punch, maintaining an offensive blitz.

JKD, of course, is not WC/WT and involves a wider spectrum of ranges, techniques and strategies. Still, this approach might be helpful. For example, I've found it useful in my Eskrima, and pretty much anything else that trains "short power" where you don't need to pull way back to set up your next strike.

See you understand. Good answer in relation to WC/WT.:asian:

 

[kaizasosei]

It's like in streetfighter...jabs are quick but have less power than the heavy hits. You have to mix it up and know when you need just a quick hit or whether you need to really put force in it. Putting force will slow the recovery because you are expecting/intending to make contact , but if you miss that force or loss of balance will need to be recovered.

It is easy to stun someone fearful or unexpecting with fast hits. It is even possible to completely break a persons spirit if it is done intensly enough. However, if someone is resisting, strong in spirit and body, it will not be enough to have quick hits. For that you need the ability to do damage and that can only be done with strong hits or exremely well placed hits.




j

 

[jkd friend]

It's like in streetfighter...jabs are quick but have less power than the heavy hits. You have to mix it up and know when you need just a quick hit or whether you need to really put force in it. Putting force will slow the recovery because you are expecting/intending to make contact , but if you miss that force or loss of balance will need to be recovered.

It is easy to stun someone fearful or unexpecting with fast hits. It is even possible to completely break a persons spirit if it is done intensly enough. However, if someone is resisting, strong in spirit and body, it will not be enough to have quick hits. For that you need the ability to do damage and that can only be done with strong hits or exremely well placed hits.




j

You know that brings me to another point about speed. When I exert force to make a punch or kick faster it also gets stronger. So if I try a power hit personally I try and put speed into the equation which makes for a much better strike. So why does a power hit have to be slower when it takes that same driving force for speed?

 

[kaizasosei]

Because there is more momentum in the hard strike. It's physics. The more momentum will continue on it's path even if it meets resistance whereas the purely quick strike will lose its energy quickly when striking a solid body.

Speed can be hard sure. Even the hard hit need to be done as quickly as possible, but the hard hits have more momentum or focus of mass.
The fast hit is too fast to channel the energy(the reaction of opponent may also be fast) , and the hard hit needs too much energy to work up and regaining a miss is also an issue.

It is comparable to the stike of a heavy person or the impact of a wider bullet. The best is if you can make your fastest strikes well focused and relatively powerful and you powerful stikes as fast as possible with quick regaining or without losing balance.
Fast means that it happens in the blink of an eye with almost zero telegraphing and strong is when it can knock a person out.


j

 

[jkd friend]

Because there is more momentum in the hard strike. It's physics. The more momentum will continue on it's path even if it meets resistance whereas the purely quick strike will lose its energy quickly when striking a solid body.

Speed can be hard sure. Even the hard hit need to be done as quickly as possible, but the hard hits have more momentum or focus of mass.
The fast hit is too fast to channel the energy(the reaction of opponent may also be fast) , and the hard hit needs too much energy to work up and regaining a miss is also an issue.

It is comparable to the stike of a heavy person or the impact of a wider bullet. The best is if you can make your fastest strikes well focused and relatively powerful and you powerful stikes as fast as possible with quick regaining or without losing balance.
Fast means that it happens in the blink of an eye with almost zero telegraphing and strong is when it can knock a person out.


j

:asian:
Yeah i see unless your Bruce Lee! Man if only!..............

 

[Xinglu]

Kinetic energy = 1/2 mass x velocity^2

Momentum = mass x velocity (and so the rate of change of kinetic energy).

The former calculation, with velocity being squared means that the speed of a punch is more important than the mass - if you double the mass you'll double the kinetic energy, but if you double the speed, you'll quadruple it.

However, it's not just the energy of the punch which counts but how you transfer that energy - and that's where momentum comes in. If you have a very fast punch but it bounces off your opponent, you won't transfer much energy - when you punch you have to learn to punch through the target else a fast punch will just bounce back against a heavier opponent.

 

[still learning]

Hello, They say when you do a techniques' like a punch or kick? ....it is recommended to bring the techniques back "twice as fast" ..."quotes"

Relaxation is the keys...from what we understand? ...in throwing these techniques...and bringing them back...study this further...!

Once threw a punch...waited one day and brought it back ....."boy" did it hurt!

Aloha, ....speed is good...connecting is better...!

 

[jkd friend]

I always thought accuracy through technique was taught. Meaning connection should not be an issue unless you don't have the tools (speed) to get there.

 

[alphacat]

I think that generally, right and left hooks are used when wanting to hit with maximal power, while left jab is used when we're into in and out strikes.
I guess that right cross can be used in both ways.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I've seen a couple say that fast hits are not powerful. However I've seen a fast left jab break jaws and knock out. So how much power do you actually need (though what really matters as far as power is concerned, as others have stated, is the transfer of kinetic energy)?


One thing I tell my students is that speed is not penultimate. There's a dynamic interplay of timing, targets, power, distance and speed, all of which determine whether you'll do well in a situation, and the fighter must find the right balance of these factors.

 

[kaizasosei]

That is why someone can have a strong hit without being all that heavy. By moving effectively a person that is lighter can technically achieve great power with momentum alone. Precision too is important as are timing, distance and most of all variety of possibilities for strikes-the more strikes from the more angles you know and can use, the more possibilities you have.
Even a great martial artist will meet his match fighting insects like bees, wasps or hornets let alone normal flies. So having strikes that miss you also have to be able to carry on the energy and carry out another strike-for example missing on a swing or a hook sometimes you see people continue the motion following with a spinning backfist or chop.

A strong strike is like a big tennis forhand a quick strike like a volley or return. The volley must be almost instantaneous but the strong hit can take half a second to something like five seconds to charge up and release at the right time and distance-technically you can only really do this if you truly know where the ball is going to be.

j


j