Presidential Debate 10/16/2012

[billc]

You should read all the posts before you comment. My post was in response to this comment...

Can I just vote Biden? Honestly, crazy as it sounds, experience wise he is the best of the four. Also, after the debates, he seems to be the only one with a pair. Or he's just plain effing crazy, and I'm mistaking his crazy for confidence. He gets bonus points for calling Romney a liar. Also, there is this -

 

[James Kovacich]

Where in the world did this "president's watch" meme come from? If the legislative and judicial branches are allowing the executive branch to have the "watch," then they are doing it wrong.

I have been curious about this phenomenon of congress (made up of people seeking power) increasingly delegating its powers and responsibilities to the president over the years and found this interesting take from Lee Hamilton, former Democratic member of the US House from Indiana.

http://congress.indiana.edu/why-does-congress-want-give-power

The unpaid wars and unregulated banks is what caused our recession. That's a fact and that was my point. So many people have forgotten the "prices" we paid, financially and with so many American lives. President you dont have to like the president but you should acknowledge that Obama didn't create the problems. I didn't like Bush but I put up with him.

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[James Kovacich]

Really? I lost my house in 2010. Where was Mr. Obama?

Bill I feel for ya. When I went through mine Obama was much tougher. He said he wouldn't help those who took "unresponsible" 2nd loanns that they couldnt afford. By the time they put more pressure on the banks it was to late.

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[billc]

Actually, when obama was rabble rousing...er...community activating here in chicago, one of the things he did was pressure banks to make bad loans to people who couldn't afford them...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/09/obama-administration-sues-17-banks/

In His Activist Days Obama Sued Banks to Ease Lending Practices… Now He’s Suing Banks For Risky Mortgages

Posted by Jim Hoft on Friday, September 2, 2011, 3:59 PM

But Obama forgot to mention that he was the one who sued banks to force them to make loans to families who couldn’t afford them.
In 1994, Barack Obama was one of the plaintiffs in a class action lawsuit, alleging that Citibank had engaged in practices that discriminated against minorities. The lawsuit forced the bank to ease its lending practices.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Bill I feel for ya. When I went through mine Obama was much tougher. He said he wouldn't help those who took "unresponsible" 2nd loanns that they couldnt afford. By the time they put more pressure on the banks it was to late.

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I had one mortgage, 30 year fixed rate, VA. No second, no home equity line, nothing. We just could not afford it after I lost my job, found another in a different state, and had two sets of living expenses while we tried (for three years) to sell the house while the prices fell off a cliff. Then I got three pay cuts in a row and work and that was all she wrote.

 

[Tames D]

As a country, yes we are better off. There are individuals that are worse off and there always will be. Some people's memory seem pretty short, but I remember what a mess we were in when Obama took office. Need another list?

I don't really agree with you here but ok. We are still in a mess with no improvement. Send another list... maybe you can sway me.

 

[WC_lun]

Okay Tames..this one is shorter

Osama Bin Laden dead
Imports and exports are up
China being challenged in its unfair trade practices more often...and successfully.
Stock market at its highest point (This is important since many retirement plans depend upon it)
Jobs near where they were when the mess started (though not good yet)
Mostly out of Iraq
Leaving Afganastan
War and medicare drug program now included in budget numbers
Al Quida's leadership decimated
Housing market back on an upswing
Healthcare reform
Automotive industry is good now
Banking reform passed (though funding has been held up in congress by Repubs on finance board)
Taxes lowest since the 1950's (Eisenhower's admin)
Government shrinking by 2% each year for the last three years.
Yearly budget deficet shrinking in last three years, though admittidly, it is still a defecit.
More respected around the world.
More money for student loans, without increasing spending.
End of don't ask, don't tell.
illegal immigration is down, due to both economy and more enforcement

Things are definitley not all roses and I understand if some of the things I listed aren't considered a positive to you. The economy is not in good condition so we have more work to do. However, compared to where we were when Obama took office, as a nation, we are a damn sight better. The thing is, if I though Romney would be better for me and the nation, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. No one really knows though, because he is very shy with details. Those details he gives, make me nervous.

 

[Tames D]

Okay Tames..this one is shorter

Osama Bin Laden dead
Imports and exports are up
China being challenged in its unfair trade practices more often...and successfully.
Stock market at its highest point (This is important since many retirement plans depend upon it)
Jobs near where they were when the mess started (though not good yet)
Mostly out of Iraq
Leaving Afganastan
War and medicare drug program now included in budget numbers
Al Quida's leadership decimated
Housing market back on an upswing
Healthcare reform
Automotive industry is good now
Banking reform passed (though funding has been held up in congress by Repubs on finance board)
Taxes lowest since the 1950's (Eisenhower's admin)
Government shrinking by 2% each year for the last three years.
Yearly budget deficet shrinking in last three years, though admittidly, it is still a defecit.
More respected around the world.
More money for student loans, without increasing spending.
End of don't ask, don't tell.
illegal immigration is down, due to both economy and more enforcement

Things are definitley not all roses and I understand if some of the things I listed aren't considered a positive to you. The economy is not in good condition so we have more work to do. However, compared to where we were when Obama took office, as a nation, we are a damn sight better. The thing is, if I though Romney would be better for me and the nation, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. No one really knows though, because he is very shy with details. Those details he gives, make me nervous.

Ok WC... Getting closer but still no cigar. Can't buy into this. But hey, try again, I might be receptive We as a nation are not better off.

 

[WC_lun]

Why not? Where are we worse off than when Obama took office?

 

[crushing]

The unpaid wars and unregulated banks is what caused our recession. That's a fact and that was my point. So many people have forgotten the "prices" we paid, financially and with so many American lives. President you dont have to like the president but you should acknowledge that Obama didn't create the problems. I didn't like Bush but I put up with him.

Actually, there is some debate as to how much Clinton's 1999 restrictions of the Glass–Steagall Act (the deregulation) really contributed to the recession. As far as wars (which get bipartisan support), there is good news and bad news. The bad news is that they have expanded to more countries, possibly pushing people in those countries towards extremism and increasing anti-US sentiment. The good news is that the US has found a much cheaper way to kill people around the world than occupation or even Tomahawk cruise missiles. Send in the drones!

I didn't like Bush either and was hopeful for change when President Obama took office. But, I had that same hope eight years prior when G.W.Bush ran on a platform of reducing international interventionism after the non-stop U.S. military actions throughout the 1990s. I agree that President Obama didn't start the fire.

 

[billc]

Romney on GM bailout...obama was wrong.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/10/heres_the_truth_about_romney_on_gm_obama_lied.html

President Obama's attack, during the final debate, on Mitt Romney's critique of the auto industry bailout was 100% false, i.e., a bald-faced lie.
When Romney said, during the debate, that in 2008 he favored a managed bankruptcy for Detroit's auto makers, with federal guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing, Obama directly claimed this was a falsehood, repeatedly saying, "Check the record."
Here's the record, via Mitt Romney's New York Times op-ed from November 18, 2008. Allow me to quote one representative sentence from that op-ed:

The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.
​

I encourage everyone to read the linked op-ed for themselves. Romney was completely consistent with his 2008 position on this during the debate. Obama attempted to thwart him using the typical leftist method: lie through your teeth, and hope no one notices. Let's hope enough people are noticing these days.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog...ut_romney_on_gm_obama_lied.html#ixzz2A5j552iq

 

[WC_lun]

Actually Romney favored a bancrupcy with PRIVATE money backing GM and Chrysler. There was no private money interested in backing either company at the time.

 

[arnisador]

Actually Romney favored a bancrupcy with PRIVATE money backing GM and Chrysler. There was no private money interested in backing either company at the time.

Exactly. Actual fact-checkers uniformly back the pres. on this one.