Pocket sticks, kubotons, koppo...

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by ginshun, Jul 14, 2005.

  1. ginshun

    ginshun 2nd Black Belt

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    Whatever you want to call them in all their different forms. I was just wondering if anybody here carries one on a regular basis, and also wodering what you guys think of this one.

    [​IMG]

    It is a Surefire C2 Centurian with a paracord wrap. I carry it most of the time. Same idea as your basic koppo, but with the added advantage of blinding light, and also not looking like a weapon of any sort.
     
  2. Grenadier

    Grenadier Yum! Staff Member

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    Sorry, I mis-read your post.
     
  3. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    How big is the one pictured?

    I have carried them from time to time as a keychain, but often find they're just too big to be comfortable in my pocket.
     
  4. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    I carry pens to operate as a pocket stick. I find they fit in my pocket and I can use them for other reasons such as getting phone numbers ;) , and they are disposable. So, if you loose one, you just grab another one from the pack.
     
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    "I'm not stealing office supplies--I'm arming myself!"

    I have an image of Rambo suiting up for battle...he puts the ammo belt around his chest. He puts the pistol in his holster. He puts the knife in his boot. He puts the ballpoint pen in his breast pocket...

    Seriously though, a pen can indeed be a good stabbing weapon. It goes back to the point that we train with plastic knives that we think can stab or cut, but so often in actuality we have a boxcutter (cutting weapon) or a screwdriver or pen (stabbing weapon), or something like that.
     
  6. searcher

    searcher Senior Master

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    I do not carry one now, but I used to carry a blackjack. They are illegal to carry in my state now so no more for me. At current I am carrying a flashlight and my tac knife. If you get caught with one(a blackjack, kubotan or extendable baton) it can get you some time in the pokey, but with my flashlight nothing can be said to me. I do also have tools with me most of the time. They are very helpful.
     
  7. Drac

    Drac Sr. Grandmaster

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    I still carry a Kubotan on duty and use it quite often, mostly when escorting prisoners to my cruiser..I place it between the chains of the handcuffs and not my fingers as some officers do..Off duty I have my car keys on a Pro-Tek Key, another effective device..
     
  8. silatman

    silatman Blue Belt

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    Seems to me that some of the most effective uses of a kubotan is as a pressure point manipulator, your example doesnt look very effective for that application as it doesnt taper into any type of point.
    It does look heavy enough to be useful as a punching weapon though.
    Not the sort of kubotan that I would choose.
     
  9. hardheadjarhead

    hardheadjarhead Senior Master

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    Surefire flashlights are superb...possibly the best. Their light truly is blinding. I like the idea you have here.

    A flashlight is a good little tool for anyone to have on their person.

    I was given some beautiful little pocket sticks at the WMAA camp recently, courtesy of Sal Todaro. They were made in Bolivia (as was their woven handbag, which is really nice) and are some sort of exotic hardwood.

    I can't think of a martial art that couldn't integrate a pocket stick into their curriculum for self defense. They're easy to use and lend themselves well to techniques we allready practice.


    Regards,


    Steve
     
  10. ginshun

    ginshun 2nd Black Belt

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    It is a little bit big for the pocket, but not too bad. It has a pocket clip, so when kept at the top of the pocket it is OK.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  11. Drac

    Drac Sr. Grandmaster

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    I couldn't agree more..I have 2 while on duty..The big one mounted in the cruiser and the little one on my duty rig..
     
  12. KyleShort

    KyleShort Green Belt

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    Ginshun,

    Do have instructions for making that paracord bracelet? Very cool :)

    Also, that flashlight seems awesome (researched it)...but ~$100 is a little steep. Suppose it might be worth it...dunno.
     
  13. spellDwhy

    spellDwhy White Belt

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  14. CuongNhuka

    CuongNhuka Senior Master

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    I've consulted with some LEOs in my area, and they agree that it's not that good an idea to carry an object around that has no real function other then being a weapon. So, I don't carry around knives (though I do own a few, and have brought them with me when I traveled to and from my MOS school on a greyhound), a gun, or a Kobuton. I don't even see the point of buying one (even for training), since the cheapest I've seen is around 15 bucks. You can cut a dowel into a few peices and you multiple for the price of one 'kobuton'. It's simply easier, chepaer, and there's less explaining to do to the cops to carry a pen instead of a Yawarra.
     
  15. K-man

    K-man Grandmaster

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    Hmmm. Reminds me of a Mae West quote that could be modified ... Is that a kubuton in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me? :lfao:
     
  16. Skpotamus

    Skpotamus Brown Belt

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    I made a couple that I gave out to some of my students and my instructor. Stainless steel, rounded point on one end, pretty thin (made from UMD spindles, about half the size of a CD spindle).

    I know my instructor has used it while escorting subjects at the jail to good effect with pain compliance and some joint locks. He attached a key ring and slips the kubaton into his duty belt for easy access.

    I know one student used his as a fist load to good effect.
     
  17. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    I simply can't agree. A "weapon" is a tool. A tool for Self Defense. If your LEO friends don't want you to be able to defend yourself, that's a different issue.


    If you feel that your personal environment is "safe" enough that you don't desire a Self Defense Tool, that's your decision, of course. Same sort of thing for training with them. Lots of people train weapons for all sorts of different reasons, frequently not associated with Self Defense at all. If none of those reasons appeal to you, that's fine.


    It's cheaper (sorta), but not necessarily easier. Even if you buy a dowel, you still need to cut and sand it at a minimum. Cutting time is only a few min. and sanding adds a few min. on top of that. Now you've got maybe 15 min. into the project. Plus you have to actually spend the time to buy the dowel. Hardwood dowels of appropriate diameter sell in 3' lengths for about $2 - $5 (depending on the hardwood and location). Another $2 for a pack of sandpaper, when you add in your personal time shopping for the material and producing the product (how much is your time worth?) and you're now up to at least $15. And that's without cutting finger grips or friction surfaces and treating/finishing the wood in any way.

    And I'm not sure where you're shopping for Kubotons but I've seen them for $5 regularly back when they were popular. Heck, the Cold Steel "Koga" stuff starts at about $11 Retail and only goes down from there.

    I can easily see why people would prefer to just buy one. Now me, myself, I personally have constructed them from hardwood dowels just as you've suggested. But I like doing that sort of thing (when I have the time).

    Additionally, a lot of Kopo sized flashlights are available now for well under $10. Heck, the 2AA Maglites have been available at that general price range for years and there's lots of "customize it" stuff available for them as well, from "do it yourself para-cord wraps" to LED and thumb-button after-market stuff.

    As for using a pen for a Kopo, there really are very few pens that work well simply because of their size and lightweight construction. There are some heavy duty steel (expensive) pens which friends of mine carry as Kopo stand-ins. Cold Steel makes the Sharkie which retails for $7 and you can find plenty of "Marks-a-Lot" type markers which will do in a pinch and are constructed heavily enough to use (though not as well constructed as the Sharkie).

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  18. Stickgrappler

    Stickgrappler Purple Belt

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    i posted this sometime ago on a different forum... cutting and pasting into here. some online resources:

    Frank Matsuyama / Yawara

    from my amateurish internet research, this was probably the first book in English on the yawara, written circa 1947 iirc.

    http://www.yawara.com/YawaraStick.html

    the scan that is up is missing a page but supposedly it will not hurt your reading/learning the yawara.

    they even made it as a pdf available for dl:

    http://www.yawara.com/YawaraManual.pdf

    Don Rearic

    if you have never visited Don Rearic's site, check it out.. lots of good articles for noobs like me.

    http://www.donrearic.com

    check out specifically the articles on yawara and koppo:

    The Yawara Stick
    http://donrearic.com/yawara.html

    The Koppo Stick
    http://donrearic.com/koppostick.html
    http://donrearic.com/koppostick2.html

    while there, check out the 2 on the Ju-jo -- variation of yawara stick:
    http://donrearic.com/jujo.html
    http://donrearic.com/jujo2.html

    Phil Elmore

    Carrying Pocket Sticks -- http://www.themartialist.com/0503/pocketsticks.htm

    Pocket Stick Strkes -- http://www.themartialist.com/1203/pocketstrike.htm

    Making Your Own Polymer Pocket Stick -- http://www.themartialist.com/0804/polymerkoppo.htm

    How to Do the Koppo Wrap -- http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/koppowrap.htm
     
  19. CuongNhuka

    CuongNhuka Senior Master

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    -Palm to face-
    You either completly missed my point, or are intentionally ignoring it. I asked a couple of my LEO buddies, and they agreed that it nots a good idea to carry around a self defense object (of any nature) because after you get done using it, you have more explaining to do to with the cops. Example:
    Cop: "And then what happened?"
    Me: "Well, then I pulled out my Browning 9x19mm Hi-power handgun/6' butterfly knife/kobuton key chain"
    Cop: "OK, why did you have said weapon with you?"
    Me: "For protection"
    Cop: "hu...."

    Instead of:
    Cop: "And then what happened?"
    Me: "Well, I pulled a pen out of my pocket, and used to a block a swing, and thats when he dropped the knife I think"

    Notice the differences? Also, I friend of my mine who is going into law said there have been a few cases where people carrying knifes have been charged with threatening people. Local law requires that if you're carrying a concealed weapon some part of it must be shown (ie, a clip on a pocket knife). So, I'd like to avoid some of that if possible. And I'm pretty good with a pocket stick as it is anyways, so I'm not too concerned.

    Again, you either completly missed my point, or choose to ignore it. I do carry a self defense tool, it's called the 3-5 pens I always have on me. Like I said, LEO's in my area have advised me against carrying any sort item which has no use other then being a weapon. You could get away with a flash light, sure, but I don't want to spend a hundo on it. I also said I did carry a knife to and from my MOS school because I was on a Greyhound, and felt the threat level would be high enough that getting hassled by the cops would be ok if it meant getting safely from point A to B. I almost used that knife twice, but thats another matter.

    I've never seen a Kobuton-like object for sale for less then 25 dollars. I just saved 10 bucks. As for seeing it for sale not in a magazine, and we're looking at 35 dollars, so I just saved 20 bucks. I find that a 6" stick is pretty good for me, which means I can get 12 out of a 3' dowel. So, I could keep 2 for myself, and sell the rest to people in my class for a buck for a pair. Which drops your price from $15, a total of $10. However, I have a pack or two worth of sand paper sitting around already, further lowering the cost. Also, if you were putting in new towel racks, you'd have a dowel accessable (in the form of the old dowel). Not to mention I tend to wait until I need three or four things before I go to Wallyworld, so as for time spent getting any material I needed, it just went out the door. I think I'm making a profit at this point.....
    Or, you could be increadably lazy and cheap, and just use an old marker. Which I do.

    I'm sorry what?

    When were they popular? Like I said, the cheapest I've ever seen was $25.

    I'm talking about using a pen in a real life situation and a dowel in training. Smacking a pen into heavy bag as part of training is a bad idea for the pen and the bag. Smacking a pen into human flesh, different matter.
     
  20. jks9199

    jks9199 Cause of War & Destroyer of Civilization Staff Member

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    Drop the attitude, kid. I strongly suspect that you're not really understanding your "LEO buddies" advice. They're not saying don't carry a knife or other item that is an effective self defense tool, I suspect. They're saying that anything you carry should be at least superficially "dual purpose" like a Kubotan key chain, a pocket knife that doesn't scream "KILLER COMBAT FOLDER KNIFE!!", a flashlight, and so on. I'd also suggest that someone "going into law" isn't a good source for legal guidance. You can certainly menace or threaten someone with ANYTHING that can do harm, especially any sort of knife; that ain't news.

    Pens are decent improvised self defense tools; they can do pretty impressive damage, especially if they're solidly constructed. But they are IMPROVISED; they aren't going to do as well. A zip gun is an improvised firearm; it hasn't got the range or accuracy of a Colt 1911 or any other real pistol, though both'll get you dead.

    Here's a simple fact: People are going to disagree with you. Some of them are going to know more than you. (Incidentally -- I just did a quick search, and had no trouble finding various Kubotans for under $10.) You're still young and inexperienced. And fist-length sticks are fantastic self defense tools, because they're hard to view as a scary, evil weapon... The biggest drawback is that they require you to be in very close range to use them.
     

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