Pistol knife Combos

[AnimEdge]

Any of you guys played the game: Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater for the PS2? NO, well you should

And for those who have you will know what im talking about

Well you are a CIA agent sneakin around in Russia(MGS3 is a great game)
And for this sequal they develeoped a 'fighting tech' called Close Qurters Combat: CQC

Here are some in good CQC game images:
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/metalgearsolid3/screenindex.html?page=14

Anyhow what it does is a lot of Techniques like head locks, choke holds, throws, and other basic stuff like that with a gun in his right hand, and a knife in the upside down grip and what he would do is sneak up and like with the but of the gun hit the side oft here head and at the same time behind there knee and with the butt push him backwords and throwing to the grownd and so on

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/metalgearsolid3/screens.html?page=71

now my first thought was on how the gun woudl handle with the knife also holding it, though i havnt tested it on a range yet, but according to my dad, who is a Pistol Director at the largest gun club in Texas (Come by some time ) says that it should be stable enough to be shot accuritly and with contol but next time we are there we will test it.

Anyhow i have been playing around with it and it seams to be pretty good, but my main consern would be accedent firing of the gun but i guess ify ou keep your finger off the trigger and had a good shock proof gun it would be good, what do you all think?

 

[Jerry]

Seems to be unneccessairy and fail KISS.

If we work from the understanding that, under stress, many trained shootists forget to disengage their safety, or have trouble with the DA/SA transistion, we have to also work from the assumption that trying to operate a firearm, under stress, with a blade in your hand is likely to lead to cuts.

If you are paying enough attention to not cut yourself with the blade, thats attention that you are loosing from your primary job of firing the handgun.

Your ability to switch hands is compramised, your ability to reenforce with your second hand is compramised, and you've more mental confusion (many of the same problems with "dual weilding" in real life.

For this, what do you gain? With a drawn firearm, what would be the point of a blade? "silent kills"? Not likely to happen with only one hand free for bladework, nor a particularly useful skill for someone asking the question in this forum.

 

[AnimEdge]

Im sure it was well glorified for the game but i thought it was rather interesting though im sure it was thought up on more of a ease of gameplay to not have to manually switch between knife and gun and also to look kool

But it seams like it is a plausable tactic and i was manly wondering if it could generally be done, playing aroudn with it seams to show that those techs it shown throught the game can be done, but like you said, its usablity and KISS funtionality isnt all to well. Even for a 'Silent Kill' its not all to rational, my guess would be it would be good if you where sneaking around and not in a 'Panic' situation and was planning on using the knife and have the gun for back up in case you are spotted (In the game if you are spotted he radios his pals and you have like 5 or so coming after you) i thought it was more interesting on how the gun could be used as a non-fired weapon in tactical ways then just point in shoot more than i thought about the actuall gun knife combo.

 

[Cruentus]

I think it is wise to have a knife to back up your firearm; one that you carry on your weak side (strong side holds gun).

Yet, this will apply differently then your game. Although I can shoot one handed just fine, it's pretty unlikely that I would even have time to use both weapons. A gunfight will most likely happened very quickly, with no more then maybe 3 shoots fired from both sides (there is an actual stat. on this that I have forgotten at the moment). My focus is going to be on getting my gun out end deploying it as quickly as I can, not playing with my knife and gun at the same time. Then, in that rare case that the gun fight goes longer then 10 seconds and a few shots, a knife in my left hand would only be a hinderence for me changing clips and gun handling and such; most likely if it is a prolonged gunfight, I'll be behind cover and my threats will not be close enough for my knife to be useful.

However, it is still good to have that knife on you, and again I recommend weak side, and I also recommend an auto or assisted opener depending on legal restrains. I just got a new knife for (early B-day gift); the wife bought me the new SOG TF-2 trident folder. It would make a great LEO carry knife. It has a safety on it like a firearm, so if a perp got a hold of it, he would have a lot of trouble opening it. Yet, the safety is in perfect alignment with my left hand, so if I pull it from my belt or pocket in reverse grip I can pop the safety and pop the knife open quickly; using no more fine motor skills then I would handling my gun. The tension bar on the knife makes it pop open automatically when I want to deploy. There are a number of other features on the knife too that make this a good pick for LEO, IMHO: http://www.sogknives.com/Folding/SOG-Trident/TF-2.htm

Anyways, why would I be interested in being able to deploy my knife left handed? Well, having that knife becomes appliable if my gun stops working, or fails. It also becomes appliable if my assailent is grabbing for my gun, or grappling with me and I can't get to my gun on my strong side. My strong side is occupied, so I can pull my backup on my weak side. Despite this, the most important reason is utility. I want a knife on me in case I have to cut seatbelts, or help someone out of a bind or accident in or after a skirmish. So utility is the biggest reason, IMHO.

So, is a knife an important backup tool to your gun? I would say yes. In real life, are you going to have your gun in your right hand, your knife in your left, slashing and shooting badguys in a flurry like in a video game? No way.

Paul

 

[AnimEdge]

How bad of me, i completly forgot about reloading, seams like another one of those Good in Mind, Bad in Practice kinda things thanks for your responces

 

[KenpoTex]

now my first thought was on how the gun woudl handle with the knife also holding it

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds as if you're describing a person holding Both a knife and a pistol in the same hand. bull**** I can't imagine trying something like that. For one thing, depending on the gun and knife in question, it would be too much to hang on to (a K-Bar and a Glock for example). Two, I don't think it would be a very stable platform-the grip of the gun and the handle of the knife rubbing against each other and shifting around. Three, you're not going to be able to use either weapon to its full potential because you're trying not to drop the other one.

If you're talking about holding a gun in one hand and the knife in the other, this is a little more feasible but only just. Again, you're not going to be able to use either to its full potential. Let's talk about the knife. A lot of knife work involves the use of the empty hand to check,pass,or parry the opponent's strikes (empty-hand or weapon). As far as the gun, a two hand grip is going to be much more stable, and like Paul said, if I've got a knife in my "weak" hand I'm going to have a hard time doing a mag change or clearing a malfunction.

The only time I could imagine using both simultaneously would be a situation in which I had to draw my "left-hand" knife first and use it to buy me time to draw my handgun at which time I would either return the knife to my pocket (time permitting) or drop it to have my hands free to use my gun.

I definately advocate carrying a knife for b/u but this is just hollywood junk (like most weapons related stuff in movies and video games).

Just my $0.02

 

[Jerry]

However, it is still good to have that knife on you, and again I recommend weak side, and I also recommend an auto or assisted opener depending on legal restrains.

I'm unclear to which audience you are making this suggestion. You mention open carry, in which case I would have to push for the advantage of fixed-blade knives... though concealability in a fixed blade is not terribly difficult either.

If you are going to carry on your off-side, and are going to carry a folder, make sure you know how to open it off-handed.

 

[Cruentus]

Oops...I forgot to say "I also recommend FIXED BLADE or an auto or assisted opener."

And yes, one must practice drawing on the weak side!

 

[dearnis.com]

Could it happen? I suppose it could.... but as a primary tactic? I don't know where one would train for it; it would get you thrown off the line most places I do or have shot.

 

[stedler]

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds as if you're describing a person holding Both a knife and a pistol in the same hand. bull**** I can't imagine trying something like that. For one thing, depending on the gun and knife in question, it would be too much to hang on to (a K-Bar and a Glock for example). Two, I don't think it would be a very stable platform-the grip of the gun and the handle of the knife rubbing against each other and shifting around. Three, you're not going to be able to use either weapon to its full potential because you're trying not to drop the other one.

In the Game MGS 3 The character has a pistol with a grip shaved down on one side to accept a custom combat knife. As the knife is never really shown in a way that is easy to see, I would think that it must be a custom knife with a handle not much thicker than the blade itself so that when in a combat shooting stance with both hands on the weapon, the knife fits up against the grip of the gun allowing the ability to quickly switch from firing the pistol, to using the knife.

If it actually worked, one would think that it would be great for use in Close Quarters.

Stedler

 

[arnisador]

Sword revolvers.

Another fantasy weapon like this was in Ultraviolet.

 

[KenpoTex]

If it actually worked, one would think that it would be great for use in Close Quarters.

Stedler

IF is the operative word there...IF I had claws that would shoot out the end of my knuckles, I wouldn't need to carry a damn knife and IF I had laser beams that would shoot out my eyes, I wouldn't need to carry a damn gun!

 

[jks9199]

IF is the operative word there...IF I had claws that would shoot out the end of my knuckles, I wouldn't need to carry a damn knife and IF I had laser beams that would shoot out my eyes, I wouldn't need to carry a damn gun!

Yeah, but you'd be hell to have around...

Zapping everything every where you look (no chance of sneaking a peak at an attractive young lady for the guy with the laser beam eyes)... and imagine scratching an itch in your sleep!

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Goin' to the can would be an adventure, and picking your nose would be lethal!

 

[arnisador]

Goin' to the can would be an adventure

This joke was used in Superhero Movie. See Jordan Rubin's character in the cast list. The description used there is not the one that was used at the IMDb!

 

[tahuti]

Invented by Les Apaches in early1900's
http://images.google.ca/images?q=Ap...US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

 

[KenpoTex]

Yeah, but you'd be hell to have around...

Zapping everything every where you look (no chance of sneaking a peak at an attractive young lady for the guy with the laser beam eyes)... and imagine scratching an itch in your sleep!

oh come on...it was an X-men reference