Outdoorsmanship/woodscraft and martial arts

[loki09789]

I have made this comment before but haven't gotten a lot of response. There seems to be a lull so I am hoping that boredom will make this topic more appealing .

Here it goes:

Historically, hunting skills and other woodscraft or outdoor skills were the training ground for warriorship and martial skills. Developing timing, power, tactical sense and physical fitness was the result of hunting, fishing and surviving prey animals - which translated to survive preying on each other or actively and successfully preying on each other.

How many MArtists out there have or do see/participate in some kind of Outdoorsman/woodscraft hobby that they find has a relationship with their martial arts training?

The one that resently came to mind is understanding the intricacies of knife manipulation by cleaning/gutting/cooking game animals and basic daily cooking in general.

In the past I have mentioned how the fitness, balance, control and mental focus of stalk hunting deer compares/helps with the development of the same skills in martial training (and vice versa).

I also noticed how the body awareness, flexibility and mental concentration that came from Rock Climbing really jacked up my martial focus and skill development as well.

Any one else find such marriages of activities?

 

[Flatlander]

I can say that chopping wood and butchering cattle gave me edge awareness, which I find to be an integral part of the Modern Arnis that I'm training in, but I haven't participated in those activities since I was a clumsy farm boy, and I began my MA training a few years subsequent to that.

I can remember my Dad saying "Here now! Don't chop your g*d***n foot off!", or "You just cut a g*d***n steak off with the hide you g*d***n a**h**e!"

Really, I'm not sure if I was afraid of chopping off my foot, or the consequences of doing so from pops, but developed the awareness nonetheless!

 

[Makalakumu]

Much of outdoorsmanship is focus. Martial Arts has helped me develop my focus to a point where my wilderness skills have been enhanced. Physical things like tracking, stalking and hunting have been especially affected by my MA practice. Knowledge of various techniques has not, for example MA has done nothing to help me learn which flies work best for smallmouth bass. Other skills that would seem analagous, aren't so similar. I would say my knife work on game I take is much slower and more careful then my knife work with my training partners. I don't want to waste meat in the former and in the latter, I just want to cut specific targets.

upnorthkyosa

 

[Cruentus]

"How many MArtists out there have or do see/participate in some kind of Outdoorsman/woodscraft hobby that they find has a relationship with their martial arts training?"

I lightly practice survivalism; everything from building shelters and fires to finding food and hunting. I think that it is great for the total self-preservation package!

Good topic, Paul M.

 

[Makalakumu]

I think that true Ninpo would be a good art to help one practice outdoor skills. The same techniques and tactics one learns to move silently can be used for hunting. The use of a bow and spear can also be used for hunting. Projectile weapons in general, their practice is very useful.

When I'm out hunting or fishing, I find myself getting into the zone. Where I am a sponge absorbing details. Carefully over turning rocks to examine the hatches, looking at the small details to match it. Or examining a print or blood trail for freshness and direction. I just kind of move through the environment and suck it all in.

I experience the same sort of thing when I spar, yet it seems like I've thrown it into hyperdrive. My outdoor speed is careful and deliberate. My fighting speed is explosive and constantly dynamic. There are some similarities, but there are also some very clear differences. One thing is safety. If you move too quickly in the wilderness its easy to make mistakes that can put you in danger. For instance, when I was kid, I was tromping my way along a wilderness backpacking trail. It was getting dark and I wanted to set up camp with the rest of my scout troop. So I tread out ahead of the group on my own...Low and behold, without me even noticing, I run across a full grown bull moose. We surprised each other and I am very lucky he decided to just move off into the woods.

One martial art that has DIRECT application is Kyudo. I did this in college for a while before I started TSD. My favorite part was when my bow hummed after I shot it - not to mention having the arrow hit the target accurately. I also liked shooting targets on the move...either the target moving or the shooter moving. Like I said, it has direct applications and it is really fun.

upnorthkyosa

 

[Gaston]

By watching nature in action it will give you insight into many, martial arts. In grappling for example, it is much more efficent to bait an opponent into extending a portion of their body. Then only after ensuring it will be unable to withdraw, attack. If by some chance it does make it's way back to safety. Do not follow it into it's domain. Wait or create a new opportunity. In nature you can watch pack animals, or solo predators preform these same ploys since there were predators and prey.

As the saying goes "watch and learn", and they (animals)have been hunting and evading each other forever.

 

[bluenosekenpo]

Make your art, part of everyday life, I believe that's the key. Yes woodcraft, hunting etc. can provide MA benefits, but why stop there? Do you park in an underground garage? See how quietly you can walk to your car. At work, walk lightly up to people and see how long it takes for them to notice you (i don't mean in a stalking,creepy kind of way), can you squeeze through a door before it touches you or closes on you? Can you walk the curb for an extended distance? Do you pick something up off the floor by balancing on one foot? When you come around a corner do visualize an attack and your response? In front of the bathroom mirror, do you let off a quick backfist? Fire a snap kick? With everyone that comes up to you, do you visualize an attack and your response? Keep in mind most of these things are internalized, you don't want to end up in the loony bin, but there are endless opportunities to build on your training throughout your day. Be creative. Train hard. Might want to try paint ball too. :asian:

 

[loki09789]

I guess what I am getting at, based on my experience with the connection, is that the self reliance/woodscraft/outdoor sports benefit martial training more than the other way around because of the direct and immediate results of failure in the woods stuff. Martial training may have sharpened the angle of the learning curve in the beginning, but it hasn't had as much of an impact for me as the other stuff has had on my martial training mentallity/experience.

When you are hunting (weapon of choice), you are really INTENT on dropping that animal. The experience is real and authentic not a training simulation.

When you are rock climbing, you will fall/fail (luckily only to the last piece of protection or a little fall if you are top roped) if you don't focus and work with 100% concentration and awareness/determination. It is real and authentic.

If you are starving (meaning hungry from exertion - not literally dying on the bone but it might happen that way too), and have to start a fire to prepare a meal safely - or even for survival if you are dealing with the elements/hypothermia - the stress and danger is real. There are no time outs.

In the majority of martial arts training, the idea that it is not 'real' is there. The simulation of intensity is not the same as the immediacy of the situations that you face while 'out there.'

Just think about the terminology around Martial arts: "I practice martial arts, I train in X art...." it is preparation for the 'real thing' but not application in the real thing. Even in sparring/self defense drills you might work yourself up to the point where you act like you are trying to take your partners head off, but you will not.

In hunting or other outdoors sports, it isn't practiced it is doing. You are really going to kill that deer, rabbit.... or you are really going to have to gut that animal (boy if that isn't an eye opener to the realities of life/death issues). If you are camping, you know that if you slip/fall/get injured - you just threw yourself back into time as far as medical response because of distance/transportation/treatment options depending on how far out you are.

I remember watching the cold weather survival school for the USMC program where these hard charging, killing machine Marines were all up in arms over killing a rabbit at the beginning of the course. It isn't a person (thank god) but having to deal with the internal struggles of dispatching a rabbit is more real in my mind than a million repetions of focus mit hitting.

I still train/will train in martial arts and self defense, but for me it is not the center of my self defense development and preparation. It is one more component to the complete mix.

 

[7starmantis]

I lightly practice survivalism; everything from building shelters and fires to finding food and hunting. I think that it is great for the total self-preservation package!

I do the same, although it seems to be getting harder and harder to get away and get out in the woods, and its getting even harder to find a time when my "camping" buddy can also get away. We usually build our own shelter, hunt for food, and of course the worst of all, make our own toilets .

I didn't start this as a part of my martial arts training, but I do find the focus and determination are very integral to both the survival and MA.


7sm

 

[OULobo]

For what it is worth, I remember hearing Carlos Hathcock talk about how his rifle hunting is more than any military training is what made him a good sniper. He mentioned it gave him the best practice as a stalker, in camoflage and as a good shot. I'd imagine that a deer is better at being alert than any man is.

 

[Flatlander]

That's for sure. A deer can smell you before he can see you. After thousands of years of being hunted by man, they've become very good at not being easy to find. Interestingly, the deer up here in the great plains of Canada have even evolved to know when hunting season is. In the off season, you see them all the time, but when the hunting season opens, they become Ninja Deer, lurking in the shadows.

 

[Makalakumu]

Oddly enough, I would say another martial art that very much mimics nature is Tai Chi Chuan. The practice of this art with its minute and slow motions and its explosive fa jing has helped me be a better stalker/hunter. Slow motions and explosive energy are the name of the game in the woods. As well as paying attention to detail and developing spatial awareness. Tai Chi is good for all of these things.

 

[David4516]

the deer up here in the great plains of Canada have even evolved to know when hunting season is. In the off season, you see them all the time, but when the hunting season opens, they become Ninja Deer, lurking in the shadows.

The deer here in Oregon are like that too... I see lots of deer durring elk season, and lots of elk durring deer season, but never the right animal in the right season...

And yes, spending time hunting/hiking/camping does give me a feeling of being attuned to the force or whatever :jedi1: I know that sounds silly but I don't know how else to describe it...

 

[MA-Caver]

When and where-ever possible I apply my MA training to whatever situation I'm in. I do go out in to the woods and mountains and camp/hike/cave/climb whatever quite a bit.
Once while joining a group of young MA's on a camping trip I had the neat pleasure of teaching a young aspiring (soon to be black belt) on how he can use his training.
He was attempting to break small to medium size (dead) tree limbs to kindling. I watched for a while as he hefted the individual large pieces over his back and swung them down in an attempt to break the limb.
I stepped up and told him that if he was going to do it without a blade then to use his training. I set up simple physics but it was an eye-opener for him.
Setting a good size limb about three inches in diameter against a large stump at an angle I broke it clean in half with a simple down kick/snap.
Set up another one and told him to try it...(his Kenpo instructors were watching from a distance)... it didn't break.
(having fun I said ina yoda voice No, no young padawan this way ... and broke the limb in half and set up another one. He tried again and after Two kicks succeeded.
(now, in my best Bruce Lee voice) I said Good... now try again!...
It was fun.. but taught him a good lesson that by utilizing and re-applying his training he could do anything with his skills.
I'm always careful not to find anything thicker than my leg to break this way. Doesn't always work. hee hee