Where did the techniques of Ho Sin Shul come from? Did any of the grandmasters cross train and bring those arts into TSD? How is the origin of Ho Sin Shul explained in your dojang?
Origin of Ho Sin Shul
- Thread starter Makalakumu
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DMcHenry
Blue Belt
I don't think I can ever remember a school that I've trained in that did "hoshinsul". It just means self defense technique. I'm sure each school has their own set of one-steps & self-defense techniques.
I like to crosstrain in hapkido for that. From what I've seen, many will do hapkido techniques for their hoshinsul.
I like to crosstrain in hapkido for that. From what I've seen, many will do hapkido techniques for their hoshinsul.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #3
That's really interesting, because every TSD dojang I've been in had some form of "hosinshul". Some of them came from Hapkido and some of them came from who knows where. I wonder where the term came from?
DMcHenry
Blue Belt
I just think over time various instructors picked up other self-defense techniques and wanted to incoorpoarte them into their program, just as many schools now are starting to put some groundfighting into their program to catch all those interested in MMA & BJJ, etc.
JT_the_Ninja
Black Belt
The ITF has standard sets of ho sin sul for white-green belts, red belts, cho dans, e dans, sam dans, etc...90% of which, at minimum, are variations on a particular technique, so that a student learns various ways of applying the same principle, instead of learning only a few isolated cases which the student doesn't know how to apply and adapt to different situations. I'm not exactly certain as to the origin of our ho sin sul, but they're pretty straightforward...they might have their origins in hapkido, or really in any other eastern grappling art. I mean, since originally martial arts had a much greater focus on grappling (useful in battle to defend yourself and finish your opponent), a lot of these are the "hidden moves" behind a lot of the moves in our hyung.
I'm personally not worried about the "whence." What counts is that they work, and that I learn them well enough to use them properly.
I'm personally not worried about the "whence." What counts is that they work, and that I learn them well enough to use them properly.
B.Redfield
Yellow Belt
I know Yong Man Lee was one of the men who helped put the MDK grabs together, I can't recall who else, I may have it written down, will check for you.
OP
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- #7
That would be great! Is he still part of the USSBDMDK Federation? Was he ever a member?
B.Redfield
Yellow Belt
He is up your way, Darien CT, on the Post Road, near exit 13 Lee's Jduo/Karate, I beleive he parted company with the MDK long ago.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #9
What year were the official grabs worked out for the Moo Duk Kwan? My teacher says that he didn't see anything like it until 1986.
Montecarlodrag
Green Belt
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On all the federations I been a member, Ho Sin Sul was part of the curriculum. The order of the techniques is different, but all of them have a standarized program.
I have always been told Ho Sin Sul comes from Hap Ki Do, and it makes sense.
In my dojang, we teach HSS from Yellow belt. We teach several variations for each situation, and we don't emphasize much on the technique used for each grab/attack (during belt tests). If it works, it's OK.
I have always been told Ho Sin Sul comes from Hap Ki Do, and it makes sense.
In my dojang, we teach HSS from Yellow belt. We teach several variations for each situation, and we don't emphasize much on the technique used for each grab/attack (during belt tests). If it works, it's OK.
I do know that the federation standardized curriculum has been reworked recently and it is constantly undergoing more changes.
As for the origin on the techniques themselves, I've heard that they come from Hapkido, from Aikido and as many other styles as there are. I personally think that hosinsul has been around as long as martial arts in general have. Of a bit more credible rumor, I believe that hosinsul may have been descended originally from techniquest intended to prevent an opponent from drawing their sword or as a defense from someone who was trying to draw their sword. To me at least, that seems to pass the common sense test of where they really may have come from...especially the wrist locks.
As for the origin of the term itself, that is a bit easier. The term is actually Hanja and not of direct Korean descent. It was taken from the Chinese word 護身 which means self protect and in Korean is pronounced "ho sin" (phoenetically - hoe shin). There is another Chinese word 術 which is pronounced "sul" which means talent or skill. I have never seen the entire word hosinsul written in Chinese, but I am relatively sure that in Chinese, it is 護身術 and was imported into Hanja.
The korean syllable "sul" by itself means liquor, lotion, or booze. But if you look at the list of words containing that syllable, it is basically a list of skills. Ex: horsemanship: seungmasul; photography: sajinsul; masonry: seokgongsul; surgery: susul; architecture: geonchuksul....etc, the list goes on and on and on. So my guess is that the Hanja term 術 is simply widely used in Korean to mean a talent or skill. It applies to 護身 in the same way.
As for the origin on the techniques themselves, I've heard that they come from Hapkido, from Aikido and as many other styles as there are. I personally think that hosinsul has been around as long as martial arts in general have. Of a bit more credible rumor, I believe that hosinsul may have been descended originally from techniquest intended to prevent an opponent from drawing their sword or as a defense from someone who was trying to draw their sword. To me at least, that seems to pass the common sense test of where they really may have come from...especially the wrist locks.
As for the origin of the term itself, that is a bit easier. The term is actually Hanja and not of direct Korean descent. It was taken from the Chinese word 護身 which means self protect and in Korean is pronounced "ho sin" (phoenetically - hoe shin). There is another Chinese word 術 which is pronounced "sul" which means talent or skill. I have never seen the entire word hosinsul written in Chinese, but I am relatively sure that in Chinese, it is 護身術 and was imported into Hanja.
The korean syllable "sul" by itself means liquor, lotion, or booze. But if you look at the list of words containing that syllable, it is basically a list of skills. Ex: horsemanship: seungmasul; photography: sajinsul; masonry: seokgongsul; surgery: susul; architecture: geonchuksul....etc, the list goes on and on and on. So my guess is that the Hanja term 術 is simply widely used in Korean to mean a talent or skill. It applies to 護身 in the same way.
