Optimum class size

[Kacey]

What do you consider to be the optimum number of students in a class? What about the instructor/student ratio? How does the art(s) you practice affect your opinion? How does age of the students affect your opinion? Is there a minimum square footage per student? What about the skill/experience of the instructor - how does that affect the optimum class size? How many are too many? Too few (not including privates here - just regular classes)?

 

[Big Don]

OOh, GOOD Question!
My first two years were all private lessons, the only time I worked out with the group class was in the month immediatly before testing and on Monday nights for sparring. Now, I partake of the group classes and it is a different environment altogether.

To me, this is, like "which art is best" something that will be different for every person.
That said, I'd rather, as a student, have a relatively (ten or less) small class to a large class. There is more opportunity for one-on-one help if it is needed.
At my dojo, the Brown and Black Belts are required to teach at LEAST one hour per week, and I and most of my fellow Green Belts also pitch in as needed. As far as a student/instructor ratio, I wouldn't want to go higher than 6 to 1, but, that's just me as a student. As an instructor my answers would be much different, having to deal with overhead, etc...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Small regular group classes no more than four to six people with one instructor are really ideal. It is hard to beat private or semi private lessons as well! Though having a few different sized bodies to work with is an extra plus for the small group experience. Add in seminars every couple of months with different instructors and people and you have the making of a robust learning environment!

 

[Sukerkin]

Brian plucked the numbers I was going to contribute there .

For mature students a class of four to six is ideal. The teacher has the chance to see things devolping and nip bad habits in the bud and the students (should) be adult enough to shoulder constructive criticism without being negatively affected emotionally. The small grouo size allows the teacher to get to know people closely and that too helps with training.

As an example of the last from my personal experience, I was often the target of sensei's criticism in my early training [not that it's tailed off much since :lol:}. I expected it and didn't take it amiss but was heartened by one of my fellow students whispered asides that "He uses you to make a general point because he knows you can take it".

For younger students, larger class sizes may be beneficial in some ways because they can 'hide' in the ranks and not feel so much of the spotlight all the the time. The negative is that a large group of youngsters are the playground of the Devil and handling the disruptive elements (with no real methods of discipline allowed these days) could be a problem.

 

[terryl965]

Kacey this is how we do it 5 pm is beginners 5-11 years old we will never have more thab twenty, now before you all go bizerk here we also have 5 instructors and two junior instructors ob the floor.

my 6 pm class is muid belts ages 7-14 we can have up to 25 with four adult instructor and 3 junior instructors.

7 pm is advance and fight team we will have in a good night 15-20 and we have between 5-8 BB and 3-5 junior BB so we are covered at all times.

Adult only classes we are lucky to have 3-8 depended on what night and then we have more BB than students at this time.

Now remember we do TKD so we can do this plus we have over 4500 sqyare feet of workout space, so you have to put that in the mix.

 

[Kacey]

I'm just curious what other people think; if all of my students show up then there are 11 or 12, with me and my assistant, who is an I Dan. And too, all of my students who are at least green belts help with the lower ranks.

I put this in General MA Talk rather than a particular style because I'm curious how the type of art affects optimum class size.

 

[FearlessFreep]

What do you consider to be the optimum number of students in a class?


For the student or the teacher?

 

[stickarts]

If I am teaching basics I can handle a very large class with minimal assistance. If I am teaching specific material by belt rank then I also like up to approx. 6 students per instructor.
I have never run numbers on square foot per student, etc,,,
I have crammed 30 arnis students swinging sticks for seminars in my dojo so I do have a pretty good idea what my space limitations are.

 

[Kacey]

What do you consider to be the optimum number of students in a class?


For the student or the teacher?

Both

 

[Guardian]

All good sizes here for instructor to student ratio, I never taught children and since we were more of a personal protection type of class, we had about 10 - 12 to 1, but I had one who was particulary good and helped me out quite abit.

I'd have to to along with the 6 to 1 ratio as a good size, but I never had to worry about overhead either in the military.

 

[jks9199]

Personally, I like about 8 to 12 students. I don't separate students by rank usually, though I may break a group out to work on something. Seminar settings work with more, but generally, I find if you get beyond 8 to 12, it's just hard to get everyone active.

 

[newGuy12]

I'm just curious what other people think; if all of my students show up then there are 11 or 12, with me and my assistant, who is an I Dan. And too, all of my students who are at least green belts help with the lower ranks.

Goodness, I disagree with everyone. As far as I am concerned, you don't start to feel that thunder, that's right! You don't feel that POWER until you have on the order of 30 students.

Now, at our school, we do not enjoy that now. I have been in BIG classes before, and believe me, when we would turn around --> dedora - dora!


Man! w0000! Yes! That's what I'm talking about. Let the neighborhood hear you! That is what I like --> to be swept up into the current of the GROUP!

I have seen a video on youtube by a school who's Master Instructor was one of Cho, Hee Il's students. He has a big school, and they had many students in the video doing a class. And it was freaking controlled r0wdiness! Awesome. If I can find that video again, I will post a link to it!

 

[Big Don]

My school separates Green Belts and below from the Brown and Black Belts during seminars.
We had a seminar, last June with GM "Huk" Planas where there were only four of us lower ranks. WOW! Did we get a lot out of that. It was awesome.

 

[newGuy12]

Here is that link, and example of what size I prefer:

Now, this is a "Hollywood" type of video, with the music and different scenes, but it is worth watching.

 

[IcemanSK]

In the past, I'd taught a beginer's class of 15 kids. I did this solely because I was the only one running the program. It's not the optimum by any means.

Ideally, I'd teach a group of 6 kids to 1 adult instructor &/or assist. instructor.

All adults 10 to 1.

If there is a group of higher ranked adult students, I agree with NG12...The more the merrier for basic line drills.

 

[morph4me]

I prefer a class of 6 to 8 students, small enough to see that everyone gets attention and large enough to give everyone an opportunity to switch partners or do drills with multiple attackers and give everyone a good workout.

 

[jks9199]

I prefer a class of 6 to 8 students, small enough to see that everyone gets attention and large enough to give everyone an opportunity to switch partners or do drills with multiple attackers and give everyone a good workout.

That's what I've found with the 8 to 12 range...

It's enough that everyone can work, that you can break some people out for individual training, and that there are plenty of different people to partner and train with, while still allowing me to supervise and know what's going on. Depending on the exact nature of the group, it's enough that I can work, too.

But, while large groups are impressive for line drills or pad exercises... It's hard to really get or give much individual attention. Instead, you end up "presenting" and maybe trying to circulate and give everyone a little personal comment, but it's hard to really give (or get) in depth personal instruction. Really large groups, especially at more advanced levels, just have a real easy tendency to turn into large aerobics classes...

 

[morph4me]

That's what I've found with the 8 to 12 range...

It's enough that everyone can work, that you can break some people out for individual training, and that there are plenty of different people to partner and train with, while still allowing me to supervise and know what's going on. Depending on the exact nature of the group, it's enough that I can work, too.

But, while large groups are impressive for line drills or pad exercises... It's hard to really get or give much individual attention. Instead, you end up "presenting" and maybe trying to circulate and give everyone a little personal comment, but it's hard to really give (or get) in depth personal instruction. Really large groups, especially at more advanced levels, just have a real easy tendency to turn into large aerobics classes...

I agree, the larger the class the more the quality of instruction suffers, because you can't get to everybody and give them the attention they deserve. 12 isn't too bad as long as there's a senior student or 2 that can help out, but I prefer my classes a little smaller

 

[SenseiBear]

I think 6 is great for a single instructor - I don't really like classes larger than 12 students, and a class that size would be best with 3 black-belts - Head instructor and 2 others to assist.

 

[Rich Parsons]

What do you consider to be the optimum number of students in a class? What about the instructor/student ratio? How does the art(s) you practice affect your opinion? How does age of the students affect your opinion? Is there a minimum square footage per student? What about the skill/experience of the instructor - how does that affect the optimum class size? How many are too many? Too few (not including privates here - just regular classes)?

I like small classes.

I prefer private or semi-private.

This is from instructor and student point myself.


As to specific numbers, as we do a lot of techniques with a partner, having 12 to 16 people would be the large end of what I would like to handle by myself.

I agree with what was said about the basics. If it is basics and only one side moves or all moves the same way then a larger class is easier to handle and manage alone.

If I have assistance, then the numbers can increase.


As I also teach seminars, where the numbers have been 50 or 60 or more (* not everyone just listing some higher end numbers *), I have to go around and watch while the students are working the technique. I have to accept the fact that in that environment that some will only get the basic movement, while others will need and want the fine tuning. I try to help both these groups a lot while in this environment. It does two things. The beginners or new to the technique do not feel lost. The more advanced also can feel like they have gained some knowledge or insight as well.