Hey everyone I found some footage on Fred "The Whirlwind" Wren who back in the day was a great tournament competitor. In this clip he had pads but most of his competition was without. He is mislabled however at the Greek which was of course Demitrious Havanous. (totally different person) Enjoy. the other clip on the same page is of Demetrious Havanous. (I think I spelled that right) On this page you can see a picture of an older Fred Wren! http://www.rogergreene.com/PhotoGalleryPg17.asp He was a very, very great competitor and I was just happy to see some footage that I had not seen in a long, long time.