O Soto Gari

[Keikai]

Just wondering how your style does O Soto Gari.

Do you use a straight leg to sweep the attacker's leg or do you do more of a back kick and strike with a bent leg at the knee level to lift the attacker?

 

[Makalakumu]

It depends on position. If there is good unbalancing and fitting, then we'll hook and reap. If there is some space between the bodies, but still some good unbalancing, then we'll just knock the leg out.

 

[brianhunter]

I just learned this this week...and the instructor that taught it to me showed more of a straight leg reap. I am sure it would work with a hook/knee bent situation depending on your upper body control. My take on it is you need the upper body working in sync with the lower quadrant.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Though I am not a ju jitsu practioner I have alot of background using ju jitsu type techniques more tuite than ju jitsu though. I teach osoto gari with a straight leg calf to calf using a upper body strike to take care of the upper half of the body. I also teach it using the foot to the back of the knee but I was taught that it was Osoto Toshi not osoto gari. I also use Ouchi gari going between the legs but that type of sweep does not have the same reaping type of movement like Osoto gari.

Just my .02

 

[zDom]

In Moo Sul Kwan hapkido, straight leg, low at the calf, maybe even just above the heel, is the ideal, so I understand.

But throws don't always go ideally; back of the knee to back of the knee ends up working, too. Just not as much OOMPH behind it

 

[Keikai]

brianhunter
You certainly need the upper body to be in sync. with the lower to make an effective O Soto Gari. I was taught and still teach to try and put your head on the ground and your foot on the ceilling as you do the throw. The result is a devastating throw.

Brandon Fisher
For us O Soto Othoshi is done with the same reap as O Soto Otoshi and O Soto Garuma. It is the direction of the unbalancing that is different for the first two. O Soto Garuma for us is when you take both the attacker's legs during the reap. They usually land beside you rather than in front and flat on their backs. Did it in one of my gradings when the attacker had his feet close together. Very nasty fall.

zDom
Try the throw with a bent leg behind the knee. I think you will find a lot of OOMPH behind it.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Greg,
Thank you!! We do osoto guruma but never knew the japanese term for it.

 

[Traditionalist]

I was also taught to do the reap with a staight leg and put your leg as high up in the air and head to the floor. We are taught to do bent leg only if we are stepping between our opponents legs and reaping with the outside leg (which actually our heel or lower part of our chin hits the back of the knee) and of course no matter what we are off balancing the upper body. I, this is just personally, have found that the higher someone is up on my leg when they try to reap me the more it becomes who has the strongest legs. The momemntum is taken away. Also I find when people try to reap with a bent leg they get tangled up and usually go to the ground. Not always but I do see it a lot. Once again I think it just goes back to how you are taught and each way could probably work and everyone will have their own preference.

 

[Keikai]

While I use the term bent knee the actual movement once you have conected is to drive upwards and strighten the leg in much the same manner as a back kick. This makes the odds of tangling the legs very very small. I have never seen a tangle when the leg drives back and up. The only time I have seen a tangle was when the person was learning and did not drive through and kept their leg bent.

 

[zDom]

zDom
Try the throw with a bent leg behind the knee. I think you will find a lot of OOMPH behind it.

I've done reaps with bent leg as described and shown in the video, and I'm not saying it doesn't have enough power to throw.

What I AM saying is: based on physics, the lower on your opponents leg you are, and correspondingly, the lower on your leg you reap with, the more power it is going to deliver.

Similar to, hitting a baseball near the grip or at the end of the bat. Yes, either one has the possibility of getting you on base. But the SWEET spot is at the END of the bat.

The sweet spot when using Osoto Gari is: down at the Achilles tendon.

 

[Keikai]

The power in the throw is a couple. So the hands and upper body are part of the throw. The more the leg drives up and the more the hands drive down the more power in the throw. Yes you can reap with a straight leg, that is not argued, and you can have a powerful reap. Lifting the attacker off the ground, with the leg in a back kick motion, as you drive them down gives a lot of oomph when they hit the ground. I have seen many strong reaps done low on the ankle and the defender's leg not driving to the ceiling. This has the effect of not driving the upper body downwards, not so much ooomph. The bent leg behind the knee takes that lack of correct action out of play.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Just wondering how your style does O Soto Gari.

Do you use a straight leg to sweep the attacker's leg or do you do more of a back kick and strike with a bent leg at the knee level to lift the attacker?

Osoto Gari Throw - Major Outer Reap as performed by St. Louis Training Circle:

Straight leg to sweep.
We make contact "calf-to-calf" - much the same as at the achilles tendon (the foot is very low) - but with fewer bruised heels as a result.
We lift our leg, straight, and begin to sweep it backwards.
We reach for the ground with our toes as soon as they can make contact with the ground. Then we drag our toes on the ground as far back as we can before lifting our leg. This keeps as much lateral sweeping as possible in the throw.
As our calves make contact, we begin lowering our upper body towards the mat as well, as we drive our leg upwards.
At the end of the throw, our upper body and sweeping leg are both horizontal - parallel to the ground.
We often set it up on one leg, and when the guy defends it, we attack the other leg.

It's a good throw when wrestling - but it works even better when we include boxing with the throwing.

 

[zDom]

While it wasn't part of the question in the original post, I agree:

Driving the body down and sweeping the leg up as high as possible are both very important. Maybe even more important than bent leg/straight leg or sweeping low or at knee level.

 

[Ybot]

I am a BJJ practitioner and have recently picked out O Soto Gari as a technique I'm going to drill with a partner after class. This is the one throw that I learned in my (extremely) short time in Judo, that I have actually pulled off a couple of times when fighting from standing. I know I still have terrible form, and would appreciate any advice on how to drill it with good form, but that is besides the point...

Anyway, because this is a technique that I have taken particular interest in I have studied it a bit. So I just was wondering, wouldn't hooking at the knee be more O Soto Gake?

 

[JudoJunkie]

According to Dr. Kano (the founder of Judo) in his book Kodokan Judo:

"Make your opponent step forward with his right foot by pulling him gently to his right front corner. Put you left foot outside his right foot to break his balance to his right back corner by pulling him toward you with your left hand and pushing him backward with your right.

Lightly raise your right leg and swing it past your opponents right leg.

Clip his thigh hard from behind with your thigh.

At the same time, pull down hard with your left and and push toward his right back corner with your right hand. "

There used to be talk of a book titled "101 Ways to do Osoto Gari." I have never seen this book but I believe it wouldn't be hard to write. I think how you execute Osoto Gari depends on the reactions of your opponent as well as your body position and momemtum.

Judy, Sandan, USJA, Kodokan

 

[Ybot]

There used to be talk of a book titled "101 Ways to do Osoto Gari." I have never seen this book but I believe it wouldn't be hard to write. I think how you execute Osoto Gari depends on the reactions of your opponent as well as your body position and momemtum.

Judy, Sandan, USJA, Kodokan

I don't know about "101 Ways To do Osoto Gari", but there is this book:

Judo Masterclass Series: Osoto Gari by Yasuhiro Yamashita

I own 3 other masterclass books and find them extremely informative. Anyone own this book?

 

[Keikai]

Anyway, because this is a technique that I have taken particular interest in I have studied it a bit. So I just was wondering, wouldn't hooking at the knee be more O Soto Gake?

O Soto Gake, for us, is done say against a right punch, with the left leg hooked behind the right knee and the hands pushing on the inside of the right elbow and the left on the throat. It was adapted from a Kung Fu style my Sensei trained for awhile in Indonesia. We use O Uchi Gake in a similar manner to O Uchi Gari except the rotation of the leg is more horizontal than vertical.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I am a BJJ practitioner and have recently picked out O Soto Gari as a technique I'm going to drill with a partner after class. This is the one throw that I learned in my (extremely) short time in Judo, that I have actually pulled off a couple of times when fighting from standing. I know I still have terrible form, and would appreciate any advice on how to drill it with good form, but that is besides the point...

Anyway, because this is a technique that I have taken particular interest in I have studied it a bit. So I just was wondering, wouldn't hooking at the knee be more O Soto Gake?

Ybot -

When you attempt to throw with Osoto Gari to one side, and the opponent steps his leg back, immediately take Osoto Gari on his OTHER side.

You'll find that works well!

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

Bend and straiten, but not all the way as you reap through, to land him on his upperbck or head.

Or stomp down his calf/achillies tendon and bend him backwards and drive down or towrds betwen his feet , while crushing his throat with your inside hand and trapping his arm with the other.
Your advantage stacking by hitting the throat on entry, hurting, maybe breaking his leg or ankle, compressing and crushing his lowr back, crushing his throat and driving his head into the ground.
That's the Koryu technique Sensei Bristol showed us years ago.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

I agree with Keikai, in that you must use the upper body to push/pull their body while you sweep at the ankle. The sport version where you have grabed his should and lapel requires more leg sweep then what I call the combat version. The combat version you step in deliever a palm heel strike or elbow to the face as you step behind there leg. My other hand is grabbing their bicep.