Non-Affiliated Schools

[SFC JeffJ]

What do you think about schools that aren't affiliated with any larger organization?

 

[Kacey]

What do I think about them how? Some are good, some are bad... I would be more concerned about unaffiliated schools from a technique standpoint, as I could see that technique could drift more, but that depends on the instructor; s/he may still work out with other seniors even if the class is unaffiliated, and that would be what I'd want to know about - how the does the instructor train, and with whom. The class itself may have a good reason to be unaffiliated - like mistreatment in a former organization - that would not affect the quality of the instruction. And some of the affiliated ones get nothing from their organization that would help them to provide quality instruction; for some the affiliation is on paper only. So I'm not quite sure what you're asking here.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Honestly, I just wanting a general opinion. My wife's school is all but unaffiliated, but she has a great lineage and gets to train with some wonderful TKD practitioners.

Might be loosing the "all but" very soon as well.

Jeff

 

[Xue Sheng]

To be honest that is pretty much what I have trained at longest.

One true venture into a larger organization was only a month long, over 20 years ago and Villari... not impressed; see "only a month long".

The other that was affiliated was very good and my TDK School in Boston, but other than the patch on the arm the affiliate had little to do with it at all. I never really considered it affiliated with anything to be honest.

But in general I find I am much happier without the larger organization affiliation.

 

[Flying Crane]

I prefer it.

 

[Kreth]

I think it would depend on why the school was unaffiliated. A school might break off from a larger organization due to politics. Or, they might break off because the owner let his ego take over.

 

[RevIV]

When does a school become its own organization? I broke from a larger organization and continued under my own name. I have always trained with my original teacher in NY even though i now live near Boston. He is one of my guides in life. A few years ago i personally joined another organization to expand my martial arts knowledge and to seek a different sort of guidance. Both of these Masters that i train with now help me on different levels and i respect both. As far as techniques, I do the testing at my schools that i do not teach at to make sure the qaulity is to my standards. As for my students that i teach on a daily basis i bring in an outside Master to do every 3rd test for me. I am qualified to do my own testing and do 2out of 3 but i will not let my ego get to me and be the end all that says all. If one of these outside teachers comes in and does not feel that a particular person is up to par for that level then they do not receive their next rank. This is just me and to each there own.
In Peace
Jesse

 

[mustbnuts]

i train at a un-affliated dojo. I get my money's worth.

I like it. I like being able to test under my instructor, at my dojo. I like that the guy I hand my check to is the head of my organazation.

 

[jks9199]

What do you think about schools that aren't affiliated with any larger organization?

Define "unaffiliated."

There's some "schools" that just Joe Sensei in his backyard, teaching what he was taught 20 years ago when he got his first black belt. He's not been in touch with his teacher or done any continuing training in what he's teaching in most of that time. It may or may not be good -- but it's not necessarily what's being taught now. I've personally found that I sometimes need my teacher's eyes on me to figure out something that's drifted off... But maybe that's just me. And I know that my system has changed over the 20 years I've been training.

Then there are "unaffiliated" schools because someone isn't big enough to afford the club fees to their association, or some similiar reason, but they are active members who regularly get new/refresher/further training from their seniors in the system. Rank may not be "official" but it's credible, if that's what you're after.

And there are schools that just don't have larger organizations to link with, too. Some of these are the guy who bounces around for a few years, collecting techniques and bits of 8 or 9 different styles and starts teaching his own thing (whether or not it's any good is a whole different question!). Or they might be doing kickboxing or mixed martial arts (as examples) and don't really have a larger organization. Others are what I'll call legitimate masters/grandmasters of a system that just doesn't have a larger organization. They're it... at least for now. And sometimes the larger organization just folded or splintered with the death of a founder and the school is staying faithful to what the instructor was taught. Which has kind of led me in a circle...

The bottom line? Assess the teaching. Here in the US, black belts are becoming a dime a dozen... I've seen places go from being run by "masters" to "grandmasters" to "supreme ultimate grandmasters." Some are good martial artists, and others are... Well, I won't say, but I suspect most who get this far know! If the teaching and students are what you're looking for, decide if you need your training blessed by some higher organization. If you do -- you'll need a school attached to one. If you don't -- you've got your answer!

 

[MBuzzy]

Great answer, I agree. It is all about the quality of instruction and if you are happy with what you are learning. Whether you are reaching your objectives or not makes a big difference.

One problem that I had was that other schools would not honor my ranking from an unaffiliated school.

 

[Danny T]

I cannot speak to much on this topic other than an opinion based upon limited knowledge about affiliations in other countries. In the US, for the most part the so call masters or Grand Masters are self made associations. These heads of affiliations were never “formally” affiliated elsewhere. They learned what they learned and when having come to America realized people here wanted to be associated with something bigger. So they gave it to them. They started an association and people paid lots of money to belong. The training wasn't any better just a yearly fee to say they were affiliated with someone or something. It is all about making more money. (which I am not against) For some schools or instructors it is simply for advertising.

Someone learns the whole system and is able to functionalize it in an efficient manner. They also happen to be gifted with the ability to pass on to others (instruct) the system. The information and the ability is theirs not the affiliations. I am an instructor in and under one such affiliation and whether I complete the system or not I will always be affiliated because of what I learned and the experience I gained under that system but I pay nothing to be affiliated. Now that is not to say I will cut all ties and state I have nothing to do with them. Of course not. Once I complete the system an instructor under that banner I will always be. I do "request" but do not require my students to be affiliated with that association. Some do, others do not. However, my students who complete their training with me will always be affiliated with me. If I do a good job of instructing and training them then it will be a good affiliation, if I do a bad job then it will be a bad affiliation however, good or bad we will always be affiliated and no matter how much money I get from them or they give to the main “association” will change that. For the “Association” it is about money. For the “School” it is about money and advertising. For the individual it is about belonging to something bigger than just the school and they are willing to pay for it.

Danny Terrell

 

[thescottishdude]

I don't think a martial arts class has to be affiliated with a larger orgainisation. but most are. the downside of not beign affiliated means that you look "shadier".

 

[Blindside]

Everything in martial arts comes down to the abilities of the instructor to apply his art and pass on the knowledge, period. Style/system doesn't have much impact on quality, and political associations even less so. You could be in an org with a great reputation, and get stuck with the instructor who they passed because "he put in his time." Political associations are meaningless in terms of quality of instruction.

Lamont

 

[hakuda]

Hi guys
i guess it relly is what do you need the association for is it sport "olympics" major tournement like boxing in australia if you are not in the rite group you cant get on to the fight card untill you are.

way up pro's n cons.

is the association good for you as a consumer or not.
whats the down side whats the up side.

then if your not with them
whats the down side whats the up side.

look at it like a business is it good or bad.

anyway i guess im lucky i was handed my school from my shidoshi
so its never been a drama for me as im now the head guy.

Thanx.

 

[terryl965]

Jeff my schoo; has no affliation to anybody, but we have yearly memberships with AAU and USAT simply for the extra insurance and the use of there Non profit status which helps plus you have to be members to go there tournaments.
Terry

 

[IWishToLearn]

I'm an IKCA affliliate school, but for everything except the actual testing procedures (if the student who's testing wants IKCA recognition that is) I can do things any way I'd like to. I like the setup - it's an Independant Affiliation .

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think it would depend on why the school was unaffiliated. A school might break off from a larger organization due to politics. Or, they might break off because the owner let his ego take over.

There are two sides to that coin. There is a Shoto Khan master in town who recently fell out of favor with Mucky Mucks in Japan. I don't know the story but The issue was just that, an issue. The Martial arts training you get will, of course, be the training every practitioner has ever gotten back before the PM.
Sean

 

[Fuzzy Foot]

Some will look at an unaffiliated school as less credible or maybe the word is less credentialed. Having been around for a number of years I've seen the school I trained at and instructors of other quality schools filter in and out of organizations finally saying the heck with it and just do what they wanted to do in the first place. Train and teach.Hence our school was unaffiliated for most of its life. Most get tired of the politics, or pettiness, or money matters. The good instructors remained good affiliated or not. Look at the instructor and the school, but probably most importantly, look at the quality (which involves many aspects) of the students the school attracts and usually you'll know if you're in the right place.

 

[tshadowchaser]

My school may be affiliated with other schools (read systems) but i am independent and all ranking, tests, programs, etc. are given and taught only if i say so. I have gotten used to the idea finally and like it that way

 

[karatekid1975]

My TSD dojang was affiliated with a very small org. So was my last TKD dojang. This one, my instructor and someone else started a new one. Very small, but it doesn't affect the training I get. I could care less about affiliation now (I used to care) as long as the training is worth it.