New Martial Art Student and Options

Discussion in 'Beginners Corner' started by StellarAevum, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    There is a small collection of old styles with ties back to early wartimes in their root country. There are a great many variants and yes, "modern" styles cannot say this so in that respect you are correct. But to put too much of a dividing line between the too can easily degrade the purpose because, in reality, much of what you would be learning should be much the same, at least similar. The learning tactics are what will be different.
     
  2. StellarAevum

    StellarAevum Yellow Belt

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    While my experiences in Taekwondo and Karate have been similar, those two and boxing and jujutsu have felt very different from one another. In technique as well as training.
     
  3. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    This is the best mentality to have. Please don’t lose sight of it.

    Regarding Wushu, it’s a performance art, not a combative art. Just like Kung Fu Wang has said. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with training in it, however you stated “practice against a resisting opponent” as one of your goals; it was your second goal listed. To me that implies you’re looking for self defense from it; however much you’re looking for is unclear. If you’re looking for self defense, you’re not going to get much from modern Wushu. It’s significantly closer to a dance routine than it is to a combative art. Nothing wrong with that at all if you’re aware and accepting of it.

    Wushu is a generic term that can mean a lot of different Chinese martial arts. Modern Wushu is pretty much accepted as the performance art.

    Edit: I don’t know if “contemporary Kung Fu” and modern Wushu are the same thing or not. I believe Kung Fu and Wushu can be used interchangeably, and modern and contemporary can be, so it’s possible they’re the same thing. Maybe not though. I’m not a Chinese MA expert, so I have to defer here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I do think it's easier where there's less overlap. If both have an L stance, but approach it differently, it can cause some confusion (both of concepts, and in the muscle memory). At the same time, you'll run into differences in approach in any case, but nothing that can't be dealt with. One of my favorite training partners started Aikido and Karate at the same time. He progressed more slowly than most, but no more slowly than I did, and had a better overall competence than most after a few years.

    And that was my point about frequency earlier. Once a week can work, but it's a slow road, and you'll get less overall benefit (especially fitness and flexibility) that way. So adding a second art to be able to train at least twice a week is, in my opinion, almost entirely positive.
     
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  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    They can be - that's a matter of approach. Some instructors give no attention to aesthetics. Mental discipline is a part of any skill building, so martial arts are certainly no exception - they all require you do things regularly, sometimes when you don't want to, and some of it being boring. And anything that gets you moving will add some to your fitness. The more vigorous the demands of the activity, the more fitness you're likely to gain. In those latter two, modern Wushu probably does as good a job as most combat-applicable martial arts. We could call it martial tumbling or martial dance, and we wouldn't think those would require less discipline or fitness.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    The issue to consider isn't the WT(F) rules, but whether that's all they train for. It is my understanding that there are WT-oriented TKD schools that teach the full range of TKD, including the (rather large) body of material that isn't useful under WT rules. If they train specifically for WT competition - and that's their only focus - then your concern is probably valid.
     
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  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    It will still take mental discipline to learn those routines, just as it does for gymnast to develop a floor routine.
     
  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    The old styles like boxing and wrestling?
     
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  9. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When people start to use the terms mental discipline, self-cultivation, inner peace, ... I truly don't know what they are talking about.

    You can add a lot of fancy terms to make MA look pretty. To me, MA is as simple as "fist meets face" and "head hits ground".

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Discipline is simple. When you train a skill, you have to do boring stuff, on days you don't want to go, at all, sometimes with a partner you'd rather not work with. But you do, anyway.

    Self-discipline is a skill...and almost a resource, the way the research is pointing. If you use it, it gets stronger, like muscle. If you exercise it regularly, it becomes easier to maintain. Long-term practice of martial arts, gymnastics, piano, etc. - if done with the kind of repetition and dedication that typically is required to develop skill - exercises discipline and develops the skill.
     
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  11. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    That is simply wrong. Martial ARTS are a whole approach to protecting body, mind, and spirit. Corny I know, but true. If a person has never been taught the things you mention, and I will include virtue, discipline respect, etc... I can understand that they do not understand, but I do not agree with it. If you want to make anything better, your MA, your family, yourself, the world, these principals cannot be left out. If you want to learn how to fight without a filter that is your prerogative but you have to know there are implications.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't really buy into the idea that the word "art" means that - that's a connotation not originally in the term. That's the "do" in later Japanese arts, but I wouldn't cease to call something a martial art simply because it doesn't overtly operate on those principles.
     
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  13. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    “Wushu” is the proper term meaning fighting methods. “Kung fu” means skill gained through hard work and training. That skill can be in anything, including the fighting methods or cooking or carpentry or physics, etc. Through a misunderstanding in the meaning, the term has been attached to the martial arts, and in the West it continues to be used in that way.

    Traditional Wushu would be in reference to the older methods of combative training.

    Modern Wushu was established in the 1950s by the Communist Chinese government as a national performance and competition artform. It is based on the traditional methods of Wushu, but deviates from proper technical application with the goal of impressing an audience.

    Modern Wushu folks can be excellent athletes. But it is akin to a martial-flavored gymnastics routine. Fighting skills are not part of the goals of the method.
     
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  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Discipline makes you more effective at that.



    But fighting arts as a pathway to better mental health is kind of common.
     
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  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    But of course it is not the system. It is the individual. So if you train it hard enough somehow you just gain combative skills through osmosis or something.

    The training really does not have to be relevant to the activity. Or even well thought out to be honest. All paths lead to the same place.
     

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