New Clip

[mvbrown21]

Working out with a junior student

 

[Eric_H]

He's coming along! Try and get him to lower his root a bit more. He's standing up a bit too high probably because you're taller.

 

[Nabakatsu]

That too was what stood out to me the most, in my lineage that part is stressed veryyyy much so. Looks like your having a good time though!

 

[mvbrown21]

Yeah, I've been trying to get him to notice that. He likes to rush in a lot too into clinch range. It's one of those things though, it's just going to make sense one day. He'll be "flowing" and it will just all of a sudden click! :duh:

 

[geezer]

Thanks for sharing the clip. It looks to me like you are making really good progress with your student. How long has he been at it?

 

[mvbrown21]

Thanks for sharing the clip. It looks to me like you are making really good progress with your student. How long has he been at it?

Thanks Geezer. He's not my student though. I called him junior student because I can never remember the name for a fellow student that starts after you. I think it's Si-Dai? I don't know though, maybe someone here does.

He's been technically doing WC since 2005 but has taken pretty much the last 4 years or so off because of his College schedule, so recently I've been trying to get him back up to speed on the side whenever he has time. I like working out with people who've taken furloughs in WC too because they still have some kind of technique but are somewhat tense. This makes for good testing of myself as well because we all know it's a lot harder to "flow" with someone who's using muscle!

 

[Eric_H]

Older brother: Si-hing
Younger Brother: Si-dai
Older Sister: Si-jeh
Younger Sister: Si-mui

 

[zepedawingchun]

So the reason you posted the clip is for us to critique or just watch? (That sounded arrogant didn't it? Not trying to be that just curious)

 

[mvbrown21]

So the reason you posted the clip is for us to critique or just watch? (That sounded arrogant didn't it? Not trying to be that just curious)

No problem zepeda.

Either one, believe it or not, I do like different perspectives. It can either make me question myself or reinforce my own views. It's definitely not an ego thing. Kind of like a good movie you see, you want to share it sometimes. The only thing I don't like is when someone says "that's not WC". I used to think about different things that way too but have since evolved. It really fascinates me to see all the different ways and to decipher for myself which I can use and which I can't.

 

[mook jong man]

Both of you need to sink your weight down and lock your hips in.
Juniors will mimic everything you do , and if you are standing up they will do exactly the same as you , so it's very important to set a good example because they are always watching very closely.

Something else I noticed is that you are only using your arms to attack with , use your body as well.
Meaning that you use your body to attack his balance , this takes coordination of your step with the particular arm movement you are using .

To penetrate the defence , turn from Bong to Tan as you step forward.
To off balance him and compromise his structure , turn from Tan to Bong as you step forward.
To work properly the step has to be synchronised with the arm movement.

Make sure you keep the angles in your arms , a couple of times there he went to strike the side of your head and you brought your hand right back like a "boxing cover" , there is no need for this , just raise your Bong Sau higher , get your elbow out a bit and palm strike him in the head.

A few times you were taking a half a step back to neutralise and absorb his attacks , that is ok , but there are times when a decent pivot is needed to shunt him off to the side and show him the error of his ways.

But the thing you have to work on is the unlocking of the hips and the sinking down , otherwise you will never reach your full potential in utilising your bodyweight correctly in attack and defence.

Of course you are perfectly free to ignore this advice and chalk it up as the rantings of a madman over the internet .
But speaking as a very small man who has had to Chi Sau with some very "big units " over the years , this adherence to basics have saved me from being thrown around the room like a rag doll.
Mind you I still copped a kicking , but they were not able to move me around at will.

 

[mvbrown21]

No it's cool MJM, thank you for your observations, just hope I can respond in good faith too

Both of you need to sink your weight down and lock your hips in.
Juniors will mimic everything you do , and if you are standing up they will do exactly the same as you , so it's very important to set a good example because they are always watching very closely.

I agree with you, just like the others, that the junior student definitely needed to sink his weight. While there were a few times I became uprooted, the majority of the time I was sunk. It's hard to tell because I'm wearing kung fu pants. I wouldn't of been able to be stationary a lot of those times when he came in if I wasn't.

Something else I noticed is that you are only using your arms to attack with , use your body as well.
Meaning that you use your body to attack his balance , this takes coordination of your step with the particular arm movement you are using .

In a lot of respects I was going easy on him. It's way too easy to actually hit your partner by accident, when they're tense, if you go in on them too much, plus they don't learn as well either IMO. There's one part when I do go in a little aggressive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYrSYl-N7s4&feature=player_detailpage#t=428s If the link doesn't work, it's at 7:08. And then immediately following that I'm aggressive again without stepping. I don't know, it might just be me, but once you're in range and successfully controlling, why waste more energy going in unless you have to? MJM I do agree with you that stepping in is good in real application but, as you probably know because you're good at it yourself, if you don't get it just right it's rather easy to jam your own structure. Not against it, I do endorse it, just don't do it every time. Plus, on a side note, I thought I pushed him back a few times using just my structure?

To penetrate the defence , turn from Bong to Tan as you step forward.
To off balance him and compromise his structure , turn from Tan to Bong as you step forward.
To work properly the step has to be synchronised with the arm movement.

The Bong to Tan with a step is a horrible idea with our lineage due to that knife edge concept thing I was trying to explain.

The Tan to Bong I actually did a few times if you watch closely. I know the lighting is bad in the video, so try enlarging it full screen and maybe turn the brightness up a tad. I'm sorry about that, I should of known better. Here's one of the times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYrSYl-N7s4&feature=player_detailpage#t=249s The time is 4:09 if the link doesn't work

Make sure you keep the angles in your arms , a couple of times there he went to strike the side of your head and you brought your hand right back like a "boxing cover" , there is no need for this , just raise your Bong Sau higher , get your elbow out a bit and palm strike him in the head.

Not sure what you're talking about with this. Just re-watched the video twice looking for it. If you find it just right click on the video and hit "copy url at current time". Thanks

A few times you were taking a half a step back to neutralise and absorb his attacks , that is ok , but there are times when a decent pivot is needed to shunt him off to the side and show him the error of his ways.

I agree with this one, I could of done it better. I think I successfully did it a few times but yeah, should of done it more.

Of course you are perfectly free to ignore this advice and chalk it up as the rantings of a madman over the internet .
But speaking as a very small man who has had to Chi Sau with some very "big units " over the years , this adherence to basics have saved me from being thrown around the room like a rag doll.
Mind you I still copped a kicking , but they were not able to move me around at will.

Please don't take my rebuttal as me ignoring you and I thank you for the time you took to post your observation. Even though I disagreed with you I will think about those things you said. Thanks MJM

MJM - have any videos by chance?

 

[mook jong man]

When you step forward with your Tan Sau raise it and your Fook Sau at the same time it will unbalance him trust me .

You do not have to hit your partner , you only have to disrupt his balance , using the aforementioned technique.
Another way is to take half a step back and latch your Fook Sau down , this pulls him forward and down.

I don't plan on making any videos no , I am an outcast from an organisation that in recent years has become , lets just say very litigious.

They wouldn't take too kindly to me giving away their training methods , even though I believe the knowledge should be freely available to anyone who wants to get off their **** and train.

So the very last thing I need in my life is to have them on my back , so you will have to be content with text based examples in my answers I'm afraid.

 

[mvbrown21]

....I am an outcast from an organisation that in recent years has become , lets just say very litigious.

They wouldn't take too kindly to me giving away their training methods , even though I believe the knowledge should be freely available to anyone who wants to get off their **** and train.

So the very last thing I need in my life is to have them on my back , so you will have to be content with text based examples in my answers I'm afraid.

Huh.....that's odd, never heard of such a thing....how is WC patented?

The law must be pretty different down there in Australia.......

 

[mook jong man]

Huh.....that's odd, never heard of such a thing....how is WC patented?

The law must be pretty different down there in Australia.......

I was an instructor and since they taught me , in their minds they also own the knowledge.
In my lineage you are not permitted to open a school until reaching 6th level and a written letter of consent this takes approximately 20 years plus.
So because I am operating without this consent it makes my life a lot easier if they don't know my identity.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Working out with a junior student

One observation, watching the two of you in rolling hands, I see a lot of up/down, side-to-side of the hands, but no drilling forward or screwing forward energy of the hands as should be in chi sao. Some reason you don't do that?

 

[geezer]

I was an instructor and since they taught me , in their minds they also own the knowledge.
In my lineage you are not permitted to open a school until reaching 6th level and a written letter of consent this takes approximately 20 years plus.
So because I am operating without this consent it makes my life a lot easier if they don't know my identity.

Fascinating, Mook. Do you wear a mask when you teach? That would be kinda cool.

As for the controlling attitudes you encountered where everything you paid for and learned through years of study and hard practice is still somehow the intellectual property of your organization... well those attitudes are common in the US as well and are one reason I left my old sifu.

Years later, this same sifu sued one of the former headmen of his organization. I've heard that, legally speaking, he had no case, but that since he was willing to sink many, many thousands of dollars into pursuing the case, he effectively won by forcing the other guy to either capitulate or go bankrupt paying lawyers to fight the case in the courts. Generally, the law favors the wealthy... it's a fact of life everywhere.

Finally, I notice that shortly after placing his last post on this thread, Matt Brown chose to bow out of this forum out of concern for possibly "misrepresenting his sifu of si-gung." Ironic and a bit sad in my opinion. Any thoughts?

 

[bully]

Geezer, I have always thought Mook should do a "Wing Chuns greatest secrets revealed" show**...here he is with his students:

I reckon you would make some cash Mook, I would fly to Oz if the rest of the class were like that ;-)

In all seriousness it must be a ballache MJM, but I admire the fact you just get on with it and keep your head down and train.

** I hope they have this show in Oz MJM otherwise you will think I am a bloody idiot.

 

[mook jong man]

Fascinating, Mook. Do you wear a mask when you teach? That would be kinda cool.

As for the controlling attitudes you encountered where everything you paid for and learned through years of study and hard practice is still somehow the intellectual property of your organization... well those attitudes are common in the US as well and are one reason I left my old sifu.

Years later, this same sifu sued one of the former headmen of his organization. I've heard that, legally speaking, he had no case, but that since he was willing to sink many, many thousands of dollars into pursuing the case, he effectively won by forcing the other guy to either capitulate or go bankrupt paying lawyers to fight the case in the courts. Generally, the law favors the wealthy... it's a fact of life everywhere.

Finally, I notice that shortly after placing his last post on this thread, Matt Brown chose to bow out of this forum out of concern for possibly "misrepresenting his sifu of si-gung." Ironic and a bit sad in my opinion. Any thoughts?

No I don't wear a mask Geezer when I teach , I wear a full on Gimp suit , get's a bit sweaty in summer though lol.

I teach private student's some of who still train at my former academy , they are under strict instruction not to tell anyone , and if I find out they did then I will stop teaching them.
I just do not need the hassle , especially since my late masters son is running the place and he is a lawyer .

 

[mook jong man]

Geezer, I have always thought Mook should do a "Wing Chuns greatest secrets revealed" show**...here he is with his students:

I reckon you would make some cash Mook, I would fly to Oz if the rest of the class were like that ;-)

In all seriousness it must be a ballache MJM, but I admire the fact you just get on with it and keep your head down and train.

** I hope they have this show in Oz MJM otherwise you will think I am a bloody idiot.

Stuff you lot I'd be keeping all those honey's to myself , probably change the curriculum a bit more towards grappling though :ultracool .

Of course I would also have the problem of hiding them from my missus.

 

[Jake104]

Maybe some ground and pound!