National Prayer Day....

[ShaolinWolf]

Umm...like I said. God says that when two or more gather in his name Jesus is in their midst. That means don't only pray in private. I mean why would we pray in church as an assembly if we are only to pray in private? God wants us to pray together and fellowship, not just be religious monks who live as austere hermits who are sworn to never marry. So, people have read their Bible on these matters, that's why it's National Prayer Day. Gather together and be or the "2 or more". There is Strength in numbers.

In Reagan's 1987 proclamation, he stated, "On our National Day of Prayer, then, we join together as people of many faiths to petition God to show us His mercy and His love, to heal our weariness and uphold our hope, that we might live ever mindful of His justice and thankful for His blessing."

And I agree with Technopunk. People say all that junk about us shoving God down their throats, yet those crappy people with the turtles on the beach shove it down our throats when each time more and more of the beach is sectioned off for the turtles. And the Gay Rights movement. So, I agree with Technopunk.

And then there is this lady in Colorado who wants to stop Prayer of all kinds and stop Churches and such. Wants it petitioned. Bah! The lady is fruity. I think that impedes on us, since she's willing to go along with abortion and Gay acts. She has no problem with them, yet she wants to have everything her way. Well, they can kill me before I stop talking to God.

 

[rmcrobertson]

So, first off, the Gospels are wrong, or at least completely contradictory, in insisting that the single best-known Protestant prayer should be done in private. Hm.

And second, SW, you don't distinguish between people who ask for the right to live their lives as they choose, without interference, and people who enlist the government and its police/regulatory power on the side of their version of God. Hm.

Third, the complete illogic of that theocratic position won't have the slightest effect on anybody. Those of you who are sure that you and only you are right, and sure that you and only you have a right to use the government to enforce their own beliefs on everybody, will continue to be sure about themselves. Congratulations. It's a view you share with the present government of Iran.

I'm not in the least surprised. Lots of folks simply have no idea what it means to live in a democracy. What I don't get is why you're so insecure in your beliefs that you feel you need the government to promulgate them.

Yes, I know, the gays and lesbians and whatevers are Polluting Our Precious Bodily Fluids. Ya know, it's funny--they aren't the guys who come to your door while you're taking a shower and insist upon handling you pamphlets. They aren't the ones who insist on, "prayers," of one kind or another at all sorts of public functions, whether or not the audience shares their beliefs. They aren't the ones who try to pass laws establishing their beliefs and only theirs as public policy, they aren't the ones who try to get teachers fired for teaching wacky stuff like evil-lution, they aren't the ones who demand tax dollars for schools with bans on interracial dating, and on and on and on. They aren't the ones who hit church Sundays, and then on Monday go out and push the economic system that keeps a big chunk of the world in poverty. And they aren't the ones who get likkered up on weekends, and drive around looking for "them," to bash.

Oh, and they also aren't the ones who are smugly sure about who goes to heaven and who burns in hell for eternity, a really charming--and moral--Theory of Everything.

But hey, hang on to that moral certainty.

 

[Makalakumu]

Sometimes it seems as if the people who really want the government out of our lives are the people on the left. This isn't always the case, but man, this hypocrisy on the right has got to stop. They have no problem with telling people how to live their lives and should find the kohones to admit it.

 

[Cryozombie]

.

Yes, I know, the gays and lesbians and whatevers are Polluting Our Precious Bodily Fluids. Ya know, it's funny--they aren't the guys who come to your door while you're taking a shower and insist upon handling you pamphlets. They aren't the ones who insist on, "prayers," of one kind or another at all sorts of public functions, whether or not the audience shares their beliefs. They aren't the ones who try to pass laws establishing their beliefs and only theirs as public policy, they aren't the ones who try to get teachers fired for teaching wacky stuff like evil-lution, they aren't the ones who demand tax dollars for schools with bans on interracial dating, and on and on and on. They aren't the ones who hit church Sundays, and then on Monday go out and push the economic system that keeps a big chunk of the world in poverty. And they aren't the ones who get likkered up on weekends, and drive around looking for "them," to bash.

Man, you just DON'T want to open your eyes do you? DO you think for one minute no one would SCREAM at me for having a "Straight Pride Parade"? I would put MONEY on the table YOU in fact would have a fit.

But its ok for Gays and Lesbians to walk down Halsted Street waving a giant Penis in the air. If *I* did that I would go to jail for indecency.

But that's not a Double Standard. Thats not them insisting on (Nope, sorry Robert, no matter how much you twist the facts to deny it) SPECIAL RIGHTS not EQUAL ones...

You can see this issue with not just gays, but Womens groups, "Alternative Lifestyle" groups, racial groups, etc etc... They all demand EQUAL RIGHTS, with SPECIAL PRIVLIGES.

I'm not aruging that this is "Wrong" I just want to know, why should the mainstream Religions be left out?

But by supporting those groups while attacking the Mainstream religious organizations, you are proving my point about the hypocrasy, Defending your beliefs that the Gays, women and racial groups have rights that should be denied to the religious groups who's beliefs you disagree with. Thanks Robert.

You know the main difference between us? I believe any of those groups should have the "right" to do as they please, regardless of wether or not I agree with it, so long as we ALL have those same "rights". I only argue against them when they interfere with my "rights".

You, on the other hand, as is evidenced by your post, think if you don't agree with their position, its wrong and shouldn't be done.

Tsk Tsk. And I thought you were the smart one, what with all that education oozing out your ears.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Nope, that's not the difference at all, and no amount of tsking will make it so.

The difference is that I don't demand that everybody else believe and worship the same way I do, and the difference is that I don't demand that the government push my side of things. I demand that the government stay out of issues like religion, reproductive rights, science education, etc., as much as it possibly can.

And, I don't seem to need official sanction for my beliefs, nor do I need to wave the flag on my belief's side.

But hey, it's not all that subtle a distinction. You think that groups of which you don't approve have no right to carry on peaceful parades. I think that right-wing religious nuts have no right to blow up clinics. You think that everybody should pray to your particular, chosen deity. I think that the government shouldn't be forcing everybody to pray to the god of a group of right-wing, Christian fundamentalists. (I notice it ain't the Episcopalians, the Catholics, the Unitarians, the etc. who are pushing this nonsense...it's the fundamentalists.) You think that employers, officials, teachers, etc., should have the right to make tit jokes to their captive audiences. I think that work, government, school, etc., should treat everybody as professional equals. You think that there are all these lesbian atheists or whatever running around loose, forcing kids to put on condoms and worship the Earth God, even though you never seem able to provide any examples. I think that when Pat Robertson actually gets on TV and announces that 9/11 was the fault of lesbians, atheists, liberals, the ACLU, he's being a creep. In other words, the difference is that I can document the gay-bashing, the attacks on women's clinics, the assaults on teachers, etc., and you can only offer, "Oh my GOODNESS, they had a Gay Pride parade in San Francisco again."

And what're you worried about the penis in the parade for? Don't you guys HAVE "Hustler," "Maxim," and a host of others to parade?

Oh yes...another difference is that I don't support an economic system that is directly at odds with my religious and moral beliefs. But hey, JAM that camel through the eye of that there needle.

 

[Cryozombie]

Nope, that's not the difference at all, and no amount of tsking will make it so.

The difference is that I don't demand that everybody else believe and worship the same way I do, and the difference is that I don't demand that the government push my side of things. I demand that the government stay out of issues like religion, reproductive rights, science education, etc., as much as it possibly can.

And, I don't seem to need official sanction for my beliefs, nor do I need to wave the flag on my belief's side.

But hey, it's not all that subtle a distinction. You think that groups of which you don't approve have no right to carry on peaceful parades. I think that right-wing religious nuts have no right to blow up clinics. You think that everybody should pray to your particular, chosen deity. I think that the government shouldn't be forcing everybody to pray to the god of a group of right-wing, Christian fundamentalists. (I notice it ain't the Episcopalians, the Catholics, the Unitarians, the etc. who are pushing this nonsense...it's the fundamentalists.) You think that employers, officials, teachers, etc., should have the right to make tit jokes to their captive audiences. I think that work, government, school, etc., should treat everybody as professional equals. You think that there are all these lesbian atheists or whatever running around loose, forcing kids to put on condoms and worship the Earth God, even though you never seem able to provide any examples. I think that when Pat Robertson actually gets on TV and announces that 9/11 was the fault of lesbians, atheists, liberals, the ACLU, he's being a creep. In other words, the difference is that I can document the gay-bashing, the attacks on women's clinics, the assaults on teachers, etc., and you can only offer, "Oh my GOODNESS, they had a Gay Pride parade in San Francisco again."

And what're you worried about the penis in the parade for? Don't you guys HAVE "Hustler," "Maxim," and a host of others to parade?

Oh yes...another difference is that I don't support an economic system that is directly at odds with my religious and moral beliefs. But hey, JAM that camel through the eye of that there needle.

Huh?

Its nice that you rambled on like that... But where was the point? It certainly didnt address what I said, it just used my comments to make commentary in other directions...

I never said (Find me one post on this board and I will apologise) anyone should worship like me or be forced to do so... I said people who are going to scream that this (national prayer day) is wrong should stop screaming when other say things they believe in is wrong... to the best of my knowlage no one even said WHO you have to pray to on national prayer day. You seem to assume it's the "fundamentalist christian god"... Very open minded of you.

I also never said anyone had the right to harrass anyone with "tit jokes"... the closest I came was i said that if it was going to be ok for ONE group to do somthing it should be ok for ALL groups to do so...

Uh... what's the Lesbian Aithiest Condom comment? I don't think I EVER said anything remotely close to that, now you are just making things up to try an villify me. Hell, I'd be the first one in line handing out condoms to kids and teaching them how to use them... I'm all for that program. I don't dislike lesbians either... again, I said... If they have the right to do somthing EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE SAME RIGHT...

I'm also unaware I have ever been involved in any Gay Bashing... Unless you count the time the Group of 4 Lesbians tried to start a fight with me for wearing a shirt that said "No one knows I am a lesbian"... But Id consider that "Straight Bashing" since they started it, and it was because I am straight.

The closest you have come to addressing anything I said was in reference to the parade, and I use that example to show you (Tho how you can show anything to a blind man is beyond me) that there is an "inequality" in their favor... And the issue with the penis in the parade vs Hustler magazine is simple...

If I blow up an image from hustler to poster size and walk down Halstead street in chicago, I go to jail. They did not for inflating a giant penis and doing the same.

But somehow your twisted little mind thinks this is fair? yeah, ok.

 

[Gary Crawford]

It's hard to beleive so many would actually be offended at a national day of prayer!This forum is the only place that I have heard it discussed.For those of you effended by itid anyone tell you it was manditory?Did anyone force you to pray?Big freakin deal that the goverment established this to suggest prayer!Who's rights is it violating?It does,however mean a great deal to those who do pray.It tells them that goverment acknowleges them,that's all.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Ah. I get it.

First off, I am shocked that anyone on this forum would be so anit-American, so opposed to the Constitution, as to write, "Big freakin deal that the goverment established this to suggest prayer," given the chunk of the Consititution concerning the argument that, "Government shall make no law regarding the establishment," of religion. Yes, yes, let's just junk that, shall we?

Second off, I sure appreciated the science-fictional premise of, "the time the Group of 4 Lesbians tried to start a fight with me for wearing a shirt that said "No one knows I am a lesbian"... But Id consider that "Straight Bashing" since they started it, and it was because I am straight." Yes, yes, yes, "I landed on The Planet Where Women Rule, and They Made a Sex Slave of Me." READ IT IN "ARGOSY: MEN'S STORIES" Used a pipe, did they? Beat you to a pulp screaming, "heteros die," did they? Bored on Friday, they cruised around until they found an area where the straights hang out, jumped out of a car, and started belting you, did they?

Hey, I've a question: how'd "they," know you were, "straight?" And how'd you know they were lesbians? I mean, exactly? They have tattoos? Big hats? What was it?

As for blowing up sexual images, really, really big---y'awl looked at advertisements recently?

Why do I assume that the folks behind National Prayer Day are fundemantalists? First, they aren't Muslims...can we agree on that? They aren't Buddhists, Jains, Ba'hai, Hindus? They aren't Catholics...or Episcopalians...it's like Pat Robertson and that sort. What, precisely, are the religious affiliations of the folks behind this stuff? C'mon...show me. It's the Oral Roberts University crowd, yes?

Your real issue is with, a) class society, b) capitalism. As long as you blame gay people for these, you'll never understand what's going wrong, let alone fix anything. Still, I understand it's easier to get angry at silly parades in SF than it is to understand one's life.

Hey, here's a martial arts issue for you: as far as I can tell, nobody gay has EVER physically threatened me. What can we learn from this?

 

[Cryozombie]

Ah. I get it.

Second off, I sure appreciated the science-fictional premise of, "the time the Group of 4 Lesbians tried to start a fight with me for wearing a shirt that said "No one knows I am a lesbian"... But Id consider that "Straight Bashing" since they started it, and it was because I am straight." Yes, yes, yes, "I landed on The Planet Where Women Rule, and They Made a Sex Slave of Me." READ IT IN "ARGOSY: MEN'S STORIES" Used a pipe, did they? Beat you to a pulp screaming, "heteros die," did they? Bored on Friday, they cruised around until they found an area where the straights hang out, jumped out of a car, and started belting you, did they?

Hey, I've a question: how'd "they," know you were, "straight?" And how'd you know they were lesbians? I mean, exactly? They have tattoos? Big hats? What was it?

Well, lets see... so, because it hasnt happened to YOU, it couldnt possibly happen to anyone else? I guess since you have never been killed, no one else ever has either by that logic... Death itself is a Science Fiction Topic is it?

Weak argument.

But you are right, I cannot say with 100% Certainty they were lesbians... I made that assumption based on the fact I was at a Gay club downtown chicago, and based on the fact they were offended by my shirt, claiming that as a man I was a lesbian. Maybe they were just really pissed off women.

As for blowing up sexual images, really, really big---y'awl looked at advertisements recently?

Yeah, I see Billbords every day... show me ONE on the streets of chicago with exposed genitallia. Certainly you see scantily clad men and women...

Why do I assume that the folks behind National Prayer Day are fundemantalists?

Maybe I mis-read you, but I believe you called ME a fundamentalist... we have never even spoken about my religious beliefs, so Its pretty silly for you to say that about me. However, if I misread I apologise.

Your real issue is with, a) class society, b) capitalism. As long as you blame gay people for these, you'll never understand what's going wrong, let alone fix anything. Still, I understand it's easier to get angry at silly parades in SF than it is to understand one's life.

NO... once again, my statement either flew so far over your head Or you have a homosexual fixation... take your pick...

Let me use LITTLE words and speak slowly so you can get this:

I. DO. NOT. BLAME. GAYS. FOR. OUR. COUNTRYS. PROBLEMS. I said and I will say it again, and again, and again and again and again.... utill you finally hear the words coming out of my mouth and not somthing you imagine I am saying...

MY ISSUE IS NOT WITH ANY PARTICULAR GROUP... MY ISSUE IS WITH PEOPLE (LIKE YOU, APPARENTLY) WHO SCREAM "FORCING XXX TOPIC ON ME IS WRONG" OUT OF ONE SIDE OF THEIR MOUTH WHILE SCREAMING "NOT FORCING AMERICA TO HAVE ISSUE WITH YYY TOPIC THAT I AGREE WITH IS WRONG"

What we REALLY need to fix the problems with society are not a bunch of hypocritcal crusaders trying to force others on one topic or off another, but for everyone to live their lives... If you dont like <insert activity here> don't scream that EVERYONE should hate it, just dont take part in it!

Newsflash pal, you cannot mandate anyones beliefs, regardless of whether they be on Religion, Racisim, Sexuality, Abortion, or any other topics.

Hey, here's a martial arts issue for you: as far as I can tell, nobody gay has EVER physically threatened me. What can we learn from this?

Hey! Here's one for you... Iv'e never had a Republican Candidate walk up to me and tell a lie. What can we learn from this?

get real.

 

[MisterMike]

Here's some info on how it came about:

http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0324_National_Day_of_Pray.html

"The National Prayer Committee was started in 1982 to coordinate and implement the commemorated day of prayer."

http://www.nationaldayofprayer.org/press/A0000046.html

"The National Day of Prayer tradition predates the founding of the United States when the Continental Congress issued a proclamation setting aside a day of prayer in 1775. In 1952, Congress established an annual day of prayer and, in 1988, that law was amended, designating the National Day of Prayer as the first Thursday in May."

Apparently we cannot commemorate anything anymore if it has to do with religion, bu it it's OK to put up "artistic" works like Piss Christ.

The toilet has flushed and we are now circling the drain.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, that was completely irrational.

First off, who among you folks has ever even seen, "Piss Christ," a lousy and really rather stupid work of art whose intent--a good Protestant intent, I might add--was to attack the commercialization and idolatry of Catholicism? How many of you guys has had one of these Parades we hear so much about right up in your face? Ever had anybody, in school or out of it, come up and say, "Hey, I'm an atheist, and you have no right to your faith?" Had a gang of people pile out of a car, screaming, "Heteros must die!" and coming right at you, eh?

When, exactly, did this happen? To you? Personally? Thought not. You're letting the likes of Bill O'Reilley and Rush get you all fussed. It's funny--the economy's in the tank, we're locked up in a stupid war which we're fighting stupidly. American soldiers have been caught, on camera, forcing helpless prisoners into simulated homosexual acts---and what fusses you guys is a) prayer in schools, b) gay pride parades, etc...

For about the six billionth time, not that you'll be paying any attention: the point is that the government, no matter who's in charge, has no business pushing prayer.

And you've never had a Republican lie to you? Really? Dick Nixon ring a bell? "Read my lips: NO NEW TAXES?" Iran/Contra, with the secretary of State getting off a plane in Iran with a Bible and a birthday cake, cutting a deal to sell missile and jet parts to a loonbox Islamic government, so they could illegally finance death squads in Central America? WMDs? And on and on and on...

And before you crank all up, sure Democrats have lied.

But the biggest lie of all is the lie that prayer in public schools will straighten everything out. I just don't know if you swallow that lie, or if you simply want to use the government to make everybody pray your way.

Still waiting for a response to the question about the Gospels' injunction to pray in private. Still waiting for a definition of exactly who the folks are who are so insistent on this National Prayer Day silliness. Wait! I know...it's the Druids.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Well, originally, the country was founded by God(Jesus) Fearing men. The consititution was set by Christian Standards, but people seem to be offended by it. Yet, if you were in another country, you wouldn't have the freedom to choose so many things.

So, you don't want a national day of prayer? What about Gay day? That in itself is offensive to me. Yet, it still goes on. So many other days observed, and they offend me and many other Christians. So, why can't we have a system of checks and balances? So, we can't have what we want, yet gays and lesbians and homos can have what they want?

Oh, now we show pity on Gays by putting stuff in schools for them in health class. Awww, now we pity the gays. Pathetic. I guess being gay really has weaker race written all over it. And what technopunk said about special priviledges for gay, LOL. And they want equal rights? Gays are put up on a pedistal and given turkish delights. Bah! Well, I think that the heterosexuals are now being discriminated in a sense, not openly, but to the fact that they ACTUALLY have to promote being gay?! hmmm. Interesting, very interesting.

I just think that if God intended us to be gay, he would have made male and female to be asexual and or atleast be able to reproduce with male-male, female-female instead of having to do it all in a lab. Yes, I know heterosexuals can adopt, but for a number of reasons. Malfunction of sexual organs, seeing that there are so many children all ready in the world that need love, or just plan wanting to adopt and not have babys through 9 months. But Heterosexuals can make babies regardless, without laboratory equipment. Can Homosexuals? No! They cannot.

What would happen if a whole band of gay men(or lesbians, but just one sex) got lost in a jungle or got shipwrecked on an island nobody would think to look at? Could they create a culture there if there was just a male species? No! Considering they didn't have the lab equipment, nor the female parts or eggs. This is strictly talking men with male components and no female components, the way God made man. Or even if it was a whole band of normal females.

See, my point is that the alternative lifestyle may be acceptable, but is it natural? Maybe in the warped mind of society, but not in the natural realm of things. Don't go into the animals, because that's a whole other story.

Anyways, back to the national day of prayer. There is no problem with having it. I mean, So what if you think religious freaks go and pray publicly and are hypocrites in your eyes? What do you so not like about Christians other than what you seemly love to call use. Bigots? Hypocrites?

Ya know, Man IS fallible. We all sin. We all make mistakes. Yes, there are Christians who go around and act and say they are perfect, but they just deny their sinful nature. Once we are saved, we are called saints, but we still sin. It's impossible for man not to sin. But we have forgiveness through the blood of Jesus Christ, who died on the Cross for US, the World. Sadly, many have so often missed the mark. I don't want to see anyone go to hell. It sucks, to say the least.

People don't understand how easy it is to jump off that pathway to hell. They see the rocky path(the road to heaven) and think, "man, that looks tough, let's follow the yellow brick road(to the gates of hell). It's so shiny and pleasurable to look at. I'm sure it leads to the greatest place ever." I don't call the greatest place ever HELL. I call that the one place I never want to even see. Not even its gates. I'd take the steep, rocky, nearly impossible, almost vertical path to Heaven over a lifetime of heaven on earth and hell for eternity. Heaven can be on Earth, and in eternity, but it all depends on how you go about living your life. It's the Christian's duty to plant the seed throughout his/her entire life.

:asian:

 

[ShaolinWolf]

One question: If the Government has no right to push prayer in schools, who has the right to make it outlawed?


And go ahead and believe about the Gospels being so contradictory. Doesn't mean they aren't true. So many people say the Bible isn't true and yet, historians have looked at it for the past 2000 years for truth that cannot be disproved. For Historical evidence, for things such as the life of the Hittites, which there is no document of on earth other than the Bible. So many things you read in History have some way been pulled from the Bible and added to information to finish the Puzzle.

Even those who don't believe in the Bible have never been able to disprove it. I love that part in the Bible that some people have taken to heart. "There is no God". Bah. That was taken out of context. The whole verse read, "The fool hath said in his heart 'There is no God'."

 

[MisterMike]

Hmm, so it is OK for gov't to make a policy based on specific races, but not recognize a day of non-specific religion.

Maybe we should put more check-boxes on mortgage applications for Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Shinto....I'd say remove the boxes for White, Asian, African, ... I don't recall the governement being in the business of race in the Constitution either.

Yup, recognizing that day of prayer is really gonna hurt, while the Census people come around to count heads - oh and color - so they can decide where to put more tax money.

Good to see which one of these gets you all hot and bothered.

Government = racist = good
Government = tolerant of what I like = good
Government = tolerant of what I don't like = bad

 

[loki09789]

So much for the spirit of National Prayer Day in a democratic nation where you get to choose which way you want to go with this, but don't have to do anything with it if you want that instead....

It is not a day of obligation, only recognition. Such a day is only a demonstrative act of tolerance and a chance to possibly come together and learn more about each other - not to convert or bash - just respect.

I make a joke about being 'anti-politically correct' in with a satirical tone, and I get rep points taken (I have one face, you just haven't seen enough of it to know me) BUT I make a comment about the Constitutional position on religion and I get educated and informed about a subtlety of language that can have a huge impact on the reality of 'church and state' issues.... I guess it balances out in the long run.

I think, for those who are saying the day is a nice gesture/significant - "faith in works" might be the way to go - complaining isn't going to prove the point.

 

[rmcrobertson]

"Well, originally, the country was founded by God(Jesus) Fearing men. The consititution was set by Christian Standards, but people seem to be offended by it. Yet, if you were in another country, you wouldn't have the freedom to choose so many things.

So, you don't want a national day of prayer? What about Gay day? That in itself is offensive to me. Yet, it still goes on. So many other days observed, and they offend me and many other Christians. So, why can't we have a system of checks and balances? So, we can't have what we want, yet gays and lesbians and homos can have what they want?

Oh, now we show pity on Gays by putting stuff in schools for them in health class. Awww, now we pity the gays. Pathetic. I guess being gay really has weaker race written all over it. And what technopunk said about special priviledges for gay, LOL. And they want equal rights? Gays are put up on a pedistal and given turkish delights. Bah! Well, I think that the heterosexuals are now being discriminated in a sense, not openly, but to the fact that they ACTUALLY have to promote being gay?! hmmm. Interesting, very interesting.

I just think that if God intended us to be gay, he would have made male and female to be asexual..."

Yep, that's pretty much the complete printout of the syndrome. I am being picked on by, "homos;" they are given all sorts of rights I don't have; this violates God's plan; it violates Natural Law because Adam and Steve can't reproduce; it violates This Great Country's Principles because Our Founding Fathers Were All God-Fearing Men.

Again I ask: when was it, exactly, that Those Wicked, "homos," came to your house, attacked you on the street, cost you a job, demanded that you pray to their god? When, exactly? Never happened, did it? What are all these big "rights," y'all are so worried about? You're not upset because "they," have rights you don't--you're upset because, for religious reasons, you don't think that anybody has the right to believe differently from you. You don't think, "they," should be allowed at all, do you? Come clean--you haven't any facts to back up these silly claims, and you're really just objecting to gay people period, right?

I really haven't time to rehearse these arguments about the Founding Fathers like Jefferson (a deist), Franklin (a rakehell), Paine (an atheist) and others. Yes, some were Protestants. And some weren't--you need to go back and actually read a good book, so you'll know the material.

By the way--not that it'll slow y'all down for a sec--the government doesn't have policies based solely on, "race," whatever the hell, "race," means. (There's only one race of human beings, kids. We originated in Africa. That's really the objection to evolution, isn't it? It means that--well--you know, "we're," also, "them.") The gov has policies--sometimes stupid ones--barring discrimination based on race, gender, etc.

It's extremely convoluted logic to argue that barring discrimination is the same thing as discrimination.

Your problem, guys, is that white guys can't so easily get away with the crap they easily got away with when I was a kid. Your problem is that you've had to allow other religions to have their say, too. Your problem is that "white folks," aren't always on top any more. Your problem is that you're confronted with the fact that it's mean-spirited stupidity to call people, "fags," and insult their beliefs.

Hard times, indeed. But please keep going: always good to see the whole syndrome full-blown.

 

[MisterMike]

Ahh..so they're checking my color with the census to make sure I have a diverse enough houshold. Thanx. Keep 'em coming.

Obviously discrimination is good if it keeps less white kids out of your classes huh? Otherwise it's bad.

Why do people reply with -phobia and -syndorme whenever people bring up what has already been thrown in front of them on TV, Radio, etc.

To me, if I don't want to look at two bearded guys tongue kissing on the next incarnation of Friends, that doesn't make me a -phobe of any sort.

 

[Andi]

I was going to post in this thread a few days earlier, but I decided to wait to see how long it would take to get heated. Not long! hehe.

As a few people have already pointed out, the question is whether or not there's any point having a National Day of Prayer. Simply put, I'd say no, I can't see much point in it myself. Do awareness campaigns like these make much of a difference? They get a mention on breakfast radio and then everybody forgets about it. (Except maybe the people that organised it.) Is the government spending shed loads of money on this project? I highly doubt it. Is it actively jamming prayer down peoples throats? Doesn't seem like it. Is it contradictory with the constitution? Well now, you guys are better educated than me on that subject.

I have to say though, I'm surprised at some of the comments here. I don't like to single people out, but Robert, as a casual observer it seemed like you were deliberately misreading Technopunk's posts.

The

Iv'e never had a Republican Candidate walk up to me and tell a lie. What can we learn from this?

quote was clearly (to me at least) tongue-in-cheek.

Also, he doesn't have a history of right-wing militant-christian evangelising on this board, so I'm confused why you seem so eager to put him in that category. You're clearly a smart guy, very well-read, and you bring a lot of insight to conversation here most of the time, but I find that you do seem to go off on one at the slightest provocation, often bringing up elaborate stereotypes that don't always correspond with what other people are talking about. I'm only saying this because I like to read the debates in this forum, and I know you have a lot to contribute, and that's great, but it's hard to digest your posts sometimes when they come across as, well, angry at nobody in particular.

So here's a question for you. You often talk about how hypocritical the conservative christians are with their faith in the one hand and their capitalist ideals in the other, but you don't often mention any other types of christians (apart from Catholics now and again). I understand you find this type of person frustrating, but they're not always representative of all christians, surely? From your posts, I might think there was no alternatives, and you've never met a decent person of "faith" in your life.

ShaolinWolf, I know you're young and a committed christian, but sweet mother of pearl, what's with all the gay-bashing? I know you disagree with their lifestyles, fair enough, that's up to you, but statements like:

Awww, now we pity the gays. Pathetic. I guess being gay really has weaker race written all over it.

sound very hateful and do not sound at all like they're coming from somebody who has a personal relationship with the creator of love and compassion. Remember, you're meant to be God's ambassador, right? So be opinionated by all means, but there's no call for that kind of inflammatory tone. It's disappointing to see a brother behave like that.


OK well, I'm probably wasting my time getting involved here, but never mind, just wanted to chuck my tuppence in and call a couple of you on what you were saying. I'll pick on other people next time.

 

[rmcrobertson]

No, Mike, you're quite right--it makes you a guy with a remote control. Whyn't you simply use it? I know I do...to avoid, among other things, geeks like Pat Robertson.

And Andi, good points. The only reason to identify, "fundamentalists," is that I prefer to be accurate in names. It isn't Catholics, Buddhists, Muslims, Episcopaliaans, etc., who are pushing these silly Prayer days--it's fundementalist Christians, some of whom apparently think that the words, "religion," and, "Protestantism," are synonyms.

And as for T'punk...

"But by supporting those groups while attacking the Mainstream religious organizations, you are proving my point about the hypocrasy, Defending your beliefs that the Gays, women and racial groups have rights that should be denied to the religious groups who's beliefs you disagree with. Thanks Robert.

You know the main difference between us? I believe any of those groups should have the "right" to do as they please, regardless of wether or not I agree with it, so long as we ALL have those same "rights". I only argue against them when they interfere with my "rights". "

When, "gays, women and racial groups," start demanding that I pray to their god, passing idiot laws like the ones California has about swearing not to overthrow the Government and not being a Communist, and generally jumping out of cars and bashing people with a pipe for being the wrong color, gender or sexual preference, I'll complain about them.

Till then--unless I missed the epidemic of lynching white guys?--nope. They don't seem to be the problem.

And by the way--these Prayer Days, screaming about gay rights, worry over parades, things--they're just distractions. The WASP businessmen who run this country are doing just fine, thank you--in part because the very peoplee they're sticking it to are obsessed with irrelevancies.

 

[Cruentus]

I haven't read all the replies, but, holy crap.

As a Catholic-Christian, I really hope I didn't start a "christian bashers" vs. "Fundamentalists" arguement. All and all, there probably isn't anything wrong with a "national day of prayer" as a means to commemorate prayer, if that is all it does, and if there is a valid historical reason (in our U.S. history) for doing so.

I guess I just get tired of the U.S. government allowing fundamentalist influences dictate policy. "Indecency" legislation is a good example. I don't like the stigma that we create for ourselves by presenting ourselves as an intolerant "White Anglo Saxton Protestant" (WASP) nation. If a national day of prayer dates back to early american fundamentalist Christians, then why is our country comemorating that, w/o comemorating other things involving other religions. Where is the "Diest Day" to commemorate the Diest influence on our founding fathers? Where is the "Catholic Day" commemorating when Maryland was founded by Catholics to avoid prosecution from the other protestant states? Where is the Muslim day commemorating when the first Muslims were welcomed into our nation (or, are we still waiting for that day to come)? Maybe I am wrong, but having a national day of prayer based on WASP history seems to negate other important parts of our history regarding other religions and ways of thought.

Solution? I don't know. Maybe if government led by big business wasn't trying to control what my morals and religious values should be, or what I should do with my life, how I should spend my money, or how I should think, etc. etc., then a national day of prayer as widely publicized as it was wouldn't have left a sour taste in my mouth.

I didn't mean to start a "Christian haters against christian" dispute. I only intended to discuss the issue of how involved do we REALLY want our government to be in our lives? Is a national day of prayer too much involvement? Is it part of a larger problem?

:idunno: