My First ITF Class

Laplace_demon said:
Btw Mr Weiss, your claim that ITF TKD strikes/kicks are those found in a patterns cannot be true. TKD strikes/kicks part of the curriculum but absent from ITF patterns include: Jumping back kick, jumping side kick, Hook kick, Tornado etc. Plenty of combat techniques missing from patterns.
Click to expand...

Don't know what the above post means. Did you mean to say I calimed then All TKD techniques are contained in patterns? Whatever the above post means, I don't believe I made any such claim and if you can point me to a post where you think I made such a claim please let me know and I will attempt to clarify.

As a correction, the patterns do contain Jump Back Kick, Jump Side Kick, reverse Hook Kick. The term "Tornado Kick" is not a Chang Hon name and means different things in different systems so I cannot address this.
 
Why not have my "mythological" daddy illustrate what I concider to be Shotokan/ITF striking:
 
Last edited:
Laplace_demon said:
ITF was orginally a Shotokan rip off. They even took large parts from the patterns. The Choi Encyklopedia from 1965 is basically lifted from Shotokan. Striking, Kicking, Makiwara training, free sparring, all of this is a complete copy and paste.
Click to expand...

And yet the motion in that video looks nothing like ITF Taekwon-Do.
 
Laplace_demon said:
Because large parts of the clip is NOT striking. One part is.
Click to expand...

No, because none of what is in the video looks anything like ITF Taekwon-Do. Striking or otherwise, the two are completely different. Sequences of movements may be similar but the way of moving is different.
 
Gnarlie said:
No, because none of what is in the video looks anything like ITF Taekwon-Do. Striking or otherwise, the two are completely different. Sequences of movements may be similar but the way of moving is different.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to Sine Wave inscriped into Chois patterns? I don't believe I, or anyone else would attempt a Sine Wave bounce in an actual altercation.
 
Then I don't know what you are talking about. I have some pretty good insight as to the historical time line of ITF Taekwondo, and according to some sources within my club, this larger emphasis on hand techniques that we are seeing right now is pretty new. We had the Karate strikes, with TKDoins kicking for most of the time in tournaments ( I submit ITFers still kick 80-90% of the time today in sparring, but it was even more dominant earlier. Emphasis nowdays is at most 60% kicking in the dojang. But like I said, I don't concider certain boxining punches trained for self defence (again admission of art inferiority) or for competition (I thought we were traditional??) to be TKD strikes per se.
 
This is Chung Do Kwan (Won Kuk Lee via Funakoshi Gichin) in 1956. I think most folks here have seen this before. To my eye, I'm not even sure this looks like what Opeloski is doing, stylistically. But this should be about as close to Shotokan as we can get from Korean martial arts, no? Maybe it's that these guys aren't performing at the same level as Opeloski, or maybe Shotokan itself has evolved a lot since then.

 
TrueJim said:
This is Chung Do Kwan (Won Kuk Lee via Funakoshi Gichin) in 1956. I think most folks here have seen this before. To my eye, I'm not even sure this looks like what Opeloski is doing, stylistically. But this should be about as close to Shotokan as we can get from Korean martial arts, no? Maybe it's that these guys aren't performing at the same level as Opeloski, or maybe Shotokan itself has evolved a lot since then.

Click to expand...

I don't think you can base anything of that clip. Chois TKD certainly evolved, with TKDoins fighting radically different from Shotokan karatekas. Different skills and weaknesses. That being said, I don't think the actual arsenal in the striking department is different. To put it very simplisticly, the kicks were a great area of focus and TKD kinda developed it's own identity from what had already been a part of Shotokan but not emphasised. That is the diplomatic way of describing the course of events.
 
Laplace_demon said:
Why not have my "mythological" daddy illustrate what I concider to be Shotokan/ITF striking:
Click to expand...

Frankly, I'll believe he's your father when he tells me so himself.
I don't how that rates as far as Shotokan goes, but it's not ITF striking by any stretch of the imagination. I understand that, given your extremely limited training, it might all look the same to you, but it really isn't.
 
Of course not. I mean, I have never been taught knife hand strike and Tsuki (straight punch) in my ITF class.
 
Laplace_demon said:
ITF was orginally a Shotokan rip off. They even took large parts from the patterns. The Choi Encyklopedia from 1965 is basically lifted from Shotokan. Striking, Kicking, Makiwara training, free sparring, all of this is a complete copy and paste.
Click to expand...

Since the book explicitly lists the Shorin and Shorei styles as "TKD" and even includes Shorin and Shorei patterns what intense research or experience lead to your "discovery"?
 
Earl Weiss said:
Since the book explicitly lists the Shorin and Shorei styles as "TKD" and even includes Shorin and Shorei patterns what intense research or experience lead to your "discovery"?
Click to expand...

I just stated that the Choi encyklopedia is basically Korean Shotokan.it's quite evident that the influence (rip off) is from a "hard" Karate style, and not hard/soft or soft style. It's FROM Shotokan. That' what Choi trained.
 
Laplace_demon said:
I just stated that the Choi encyklopedia is basically Korean Shotokan.it's quite evident that the influence (rip off) is from a "hard" Karate style, and not hard/soft or soft style. It's FROM Shotokan. That' what Choi trained.
Click to expand...

I don't understand why you use the phrase "rip off". It's as if you're intentionally trying to provoke people. There's nothing "stolen" when one martial art splits from another. The phrase "rip off" is neither accurate, nor descriptive, nor helpful.

At this point, I have to believe that you're just intentionally trolling.

Ultimately, as I understand it, Jhoon Rhee, ATA, ITF, and GTF styles of taekwondo all have Shotokan in their heritage.
1280
 
I am so sorry. The striking of ITF looks nothing like Shotokan. Here is General Chois favourite student, Grand Master Rhee. He will show you all the ITF striking.

At 0:23



O, wait...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

tkd must to be very usefull

Previous Thread

Aaron Cook to compete for Moldova

Next Thread

Latest Discussions

Back
Top