More from the "Religion of Peace"

[Bob Hubbard]

- Even several states in the US theoretically allow marriage as young as that proposed by the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia.

No one came up with a state that allows marraige at 10, now today.

From wikipedia.

• United States: Usually 18. Most states, however, allow marriage at a younger age with parental and/or judicial consent. Some states allow marriage at a still younger age if the female is pregnant. There are a few states that have a higher age. Note that violation of the law occurs at the moment of physical contact (before pregnancy), and so most men are imprisoned before any marriage takes place, leaving marriage de facto illegal.
  • Alabama: 18, 16 with parental consent. (statute).
  • Alaska: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Arizona: no statutory minimum, under 18 with parental consent, under 16 with approval of a superior court judge and parental consent. (statute)
  • Arkansas: 18, 16 for females and 17 for males with parental consent.[35]
  • California: no statutory minimum, those under 18 must receive approval of a superior court judge, or parental consent.
  • Colorado: 18, 16 with parental consent, no minimum with judicial approval.[35][36]
  • Connecticut: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • District of Columbia: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Delaware: 18, 16 for females with parental consent.[35]
  • Florida: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Georgia: 18, 15 with parental consent, 16 without parental consent if pregnant.[35]
  • Hawaii: 18, 15 with parental consent.[35]
  • Idaho: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Illinois: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Indiana: 18, 17 with parental consent, 15 in the case of pregnancy with both parental and judicial consent.[37]
  • Iowa: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Kansas: 18, no minimum with parental consent.[35]
  • Kentucky: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Louisiana: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Maine: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Massachusetts: 18 for first marriage, 16 with parental and judicial consent [38].
  • Maryland: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Michigan: 18, 16 with parental consent, 15 and under with parental consent and probate judge approval.
  • Minnesota: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Mississippi: 21, 17 for males, 15 for females, with parental consent.
  • Missouri: 18, 15 with parental consent.[35]
  • Montana: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Nebraska: 19, 17 with parental consent.[35]
  • Nevada: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • New Hampshire: 18, 14 for males and 13 for females, in cases of "special cause" with parental consent and court permission.
  • New Jersey: 18, 16 with parental consent.
  • New Mexico: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • New York: 18, 16 with parental consent, 14 with parental and judicial consent.[citation needed]
  • North Carolina: 18, 16 with parental consent, unlimited in case of pregnancy or birth of child with parental consent.
  • North Dakota: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Ohio: 18 for males, 16 for females, less with parental consent.
  • Oklahoma: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Oregon: 18, 17 with parental consent. The consenting parent or guardian must accompany the applicant when applying for the marriage license.
  • Pennsylvania: 18, 16 with Birth Certificate and written consent of parent or guardian, under 16 with parental consent and under 14 with the approval of a Judge of the Orphans Court.
  • Puerto Rico: 21, 18 with parental consent.[35]
  • Rhode Island: 18, 16 for females with parental consent.[35]
  • South Carolina: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • South Dakota: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Tennessee: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Texas: 18, 16 with parental consent. 14 with judicial consent or if person under 18 had previously married and divorced.
  • Utah: 18 for first marriage, 16 with parental consent, 15 with court approval.[39]
  • Vermont: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Virginia: 18, 16 with parental consent.[40]
  • Washington: 18, 17 with parental consent.[35] May be waived by superior court judge.(statute)
  • West Virginia: 18, 16 with parental consent, under 16 (unspecified limit) with parental and judicial consent[41][35]
  • Wisconsin: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]
  • Wyoming: 18, 16 with parental consent.[35]

 

[elder999]

From wikipedia.

So, basically, Arizona, California, Kansas and West Virginia, a kid can get married at 10, if I read that right???

 

[elder999]

BTW- using words like Fallacious? makes you come across as a nancy boy book nerd. No one like those guys. In fact, those guys? they get swirly's. For a reason. Dont be that guy

Well, I'm yer huckleberry.....:lol:

I mean, I'm a "book nerd," for sure, but I ain't no nancy boy.

In fact,not to stick up for Empty or anything, but I have to downright resent the implication. "Fallacious" is a perfectly`cromulent word....:lfao:

Don't get no swirlies. Never did. Never will. That ain't no way for a proper Texan to talk, anyway....

Babe, you need a better outlet for that pent-up energy...

Oh, will you two get a room or something? Jesus! :lol:

 

[Twin Fist]

oh elder, you do give me a tickle......

you're funny

 

[jarrod]

Chrisitianity teaches to love thy neighbor, when chrisitians DONT, they are acting against thier religion

if all christianity taught was "love thy neighbor" we wouldn't have all of these denominations. now the denomination that i was raised in taught me that blacks are inferior to whites, & that women were inferior to men. i also learned loving teachings such as it's okay to beat up homosexuals since we can't stone them to death anymore. all of these teachings were supported by scripture.

now since then i've been exposed to other forms of christianity that make a lot more sense. this split is universal in all organized religions; you will have your liberals, your moderates, your conservatives, & your none-of-the-aboves. what the founder of a religion taught is of fairly little consequence since his teachings will inevitably be cherry-picked by his followers. otherwise modern day christians would give everything they own to the poor & live in poverty themselves.

jf

 

[sgtmac_46]

People, not religion, produce these sects, so we should condemn their acts, not the religion.

For the sake of argument, would you agree that fascism and nazism are evil ideologies in and of themselves, beyond the individuals who adhere to them?

Would you agree that those ideologies should be condemned wholesale?

People produced fascism and nazism, but the evil of those ideologies exists separate from an individual, as they can spread to others.

Now, that point is only to say that ideologies CAN be bad in and of themselves........it's not a direct comparison of nazism and fascism to anything in particular.

 

[sgtmac_46]

What you fail to comprehend, no matter how many times it is pointed out to you, is that no one is trying to defend the excesses of Islam or deflect that attention elsewhere. You put forward a proposition: Islam, the religion, is uniquely bad because of X. It is not deflection or defense to counter your point that other religions do X too. It directly addresses your claim, and points out that Islam is not unique in the way that you claim.

Continued blindness to that fact, combined with your baseless personal claims (i.e. Muslims are more likely to be perverts than anyone else), is what has drawn your criticism here. If you don't understand that, it's because you don't want to.

Islam IS uniquely powerful for one overwhelming reason........it teaches that individual muslims must STRUGGLE for their salvation.

Where Christianity is less powerful is in the belief that salvation is freely given, and paid for by the blood of Christ.......hence all that is required is acceptance of that sacrifice.

Islam, on the other hand, requires religious struggle in order to EARN salvation, and, while many Muslims believe the struggle to be a spiritual symbolic one (feeding hungry children) from the VERY BEGINNING that requirement to under salvation through Jihad (religious struggle) has been interpreted QUITE LITERALLY to mean Religious War.

That is powerful because it raises fearless warriors who believe, not just that they are secure in death, but that death will ensure salvation!

Hence, Islam, more than many other religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism or Hinduism, is useful as a tool for those seeking to subvert it's principles to their own end........even at the hands of Mohammad itself, and ever since.

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live."

"A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."

Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50, London: Longmans, Green Co., 1899)

I think there are many good people who cannot bring themselves to be honest with themselves about this issue.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Oh yeah. And Jimmy \"Kill a gay for lookin' at me, and tell God he died,and a $20 hooker" Swaggert, Pat " "I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you"Robertson, Jerry"the Antichrist will, by necessity, be a Jewish male Falwell and Oral "God's gonna take me away if I don't raise $10 Million" Roberts are just the models of stability for "senior clerics" of Christianity in our homeland...

says a LOT for us and our standards:lfao:

You guys just can't resist the 'Oh yeah, well Christianity, blah, blah, blah' argument can you? :lfao:

I've actually coined a term for it.....'Mac's Law'.....that in any discussion involving Islam and it's extremes, someone will, within 10 posts or less, come out with 'Oh yeah, well Christianity, blah, blah, blah' followed by a diatribe about real and alleged extremes of Christianity.......the assumption being that the poster is arguing with a Christian, and scoring points by attacking the faith of the original poster.

Quite frankly i'm not impressed.........I first cannot think of any Christian theocratic states in existence right now, and SECOND cannot think of any current group of Christians condemning rape victims to death for adultery.

 

[sgtmac_46]

if all christianity taught was "love thy neighbor" we wouldn't have all of these denominations. now the denomination that i was raised in taught me that blacks are inferior to whites, & that women were inferior to men. i also learned loving teachings such as it's okay to beat up homosexuals since we can't stone them to death anymore. all of these teachings were supported by scripture.

now since then i've been exposed to other forms of christianity that make a lot more sense. this split is universal in all organized religions; you will have your liberals, your moderates, your conservatives, & your none-of-the-aboves. what the founder of a religion taught is of fairly little consequence since his teachings will inevitably be cherry-picked by his followers. otherwise modern day christians would give everything they own to the poor & live in poverty themselves.

jf

If the current conflict were 'Christianity versus Islam' this whole 'Christianity, blah, blah, blah' line of argument might make sense......instead of being an obvious deflection.

The reality is that under Sharia, Judaism and Christianity are both allowed to be practiced, so long as the practioners live in dhimmitude.

Secularists like myself have only the choice of conversion or death under Sharia.......I have more interest in the issue than Christians.

Again, anyone who tells me that Christianity is no different than Islam has yet to take up my challenge.........publish an unflattering drawing of Christ, and see how you're free speech is protected........draw ANY PICTURE OF MOHAMMAD and watch as those who spout 'free speech' abandon you, and you get visited by some new 'friends' quite interested in your drawings.

 

[jarrod]

If the current conflict were 'Christianity versus Islam' this whole 'Christianity, blah, blah, blah' line of argument might make sense......instead of being an obvious deflection.

The reality is that under Sharia, Judaism and Islam are both allowed to practiced, so long as they live in dhimmitude.

Secularists like myself have only the choice of conversion or death under Sharia.......I have more interest in the issue than Christians.

read what i wrote in context...twin fist is holding up christianity as superior to islam, which it isn't.

 

[sgtmac_46]

The hypocrisy among those, especially on the left, when it comes to free speech and Islam ASTOUNDS me........you can have 'Family Guy' cartoons depicted Christ and, what can only be the Christian God, in all sorts of risque activities.........but 'Family Guy' wouldn't DARE show an image of Mohammad doing ANYTHING!

I think Matt Stone and Trey Parker fleshed this subject out pretty good on South Park when they made an episode with 'Peter' from 'Family Guy' in a scene with Mohammad.......and Comedy Central REFUSED to run the episode!

So Matt and I were like, “This is great; we have our first episode.” Comedy Central kept saying, “We’re not going to broadcast a Muhammad episode.” And we said, “You totally have the right, it’s your network, but we’re going to make one, and it’s going to be one of the seven you pay for.”

http://www.reason.com/news/show/116787.html

I have no problems with criticisms of Christianity......I have a HUGE PROBLEM with the cowardice displayed by the folks with no problem ridiculing Christianity, who turn spineless on the subject of ISLAM!

 

[jarrod]

good advice

and just another "they did it too"

you do not and can not justify or excuse bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior.

here's about all i have to say, then i think i'll bow out of this one for the time being.

nobody is excusing the immoral acts of certain muslims. but if you are going to blame one religion for the actions of some of its adherents, then you have to hold all religions accountable for the negative actions of its adherents.

no religion is "bad" or dangerous. militancy, fundamentalism, extremism, & intolerance are dangerous, however. i really don't care if these things manifest themselves in islam, christianity, or loyalty to coke over pepsi. in any case these things are dangerous & deserve to be opposed. however, islam, christianity, & soft drinks in & of themselves aren't the problem.

jf

 

[Archangel M]

The hypocrisy among those, especially on the left, when it comes to free speech and Islam ASTOUNDS me........you can have 'Family Guy' cartoons depicted Christ and, what can only be the Christian God, in all sorts of risque activities.........but 'Family Guy' wouldn't DARE show an image of Mohammad doing ANYTHING!

I think Matt Stone and Trey Parker fleshed this subject out pretty good on South Park when they made an episode with 'Peter' from 'Family Guy' in a scene with Mohammad.......and Comedy Central REFUSED to run the episode!




http://www.reason.com/news/show/116787.html

I have no problems with criticisms of Christianity......I have a HUGE PROBLEM with the cowardice displayed by the folks with no problem ridiculing Christianity, who turn spineless on the subject of ISLAM!

And will we ever see someone explaining WHY that is? I doubt it.

 

[sgtmac_46]

And will we ever see someone explaining WHY that is? I doubt it.

You'll never seen an admission as to why that is......but my suspicion as to the root of it rests with the mindset of the leftist intelligentsia.......the core of the left buys in to the Marxist mindset that all conflict is rooted in wealth inequality.......ergo, they view Islamic Fundamentalism as a by-product of Capitalist (i.e. western, i.e. American, etc) greed and oppression of the Islamic world over the last 100 plus years.

As such, the left is under the belief that ULTIMATELY the Global Jihad movement is merely another quasi-nationalistic struggle against Capitalism, with the Jihadist as misguided, but ultimately seeking the same goal.....in a sense misguided brothers in the struggle against the common enemy of Capitalism.

It is that belief that drives much of the lefts debate strategy and talking points on the issue, the practice of always changing the subject to Christianity and it's excesses, the history of the western world, etc......I don't claim that this is the conscious thinking of all those who use those arguments, merely that those arguments are rooted in an ideology of it's own that views western civilizations as the root of all evil, and all others merely responding to it.

One can view the Palestinian debate as an example of this.....the REASON the Palestinian issue is such a hot one is three fold.....One, Europeans natural anti-semetism, but more importantly, second that the Soviet Union supported, armed and trained the Palestininan cause, and used it's influence to push it front page on the world stage for the last several decades prior to the Soviet Union's collapse.

It was the influence of the Soviet Union that caused their proxies in the US Student movements and left-wing intelligentsia in academia to take up the cause of the Palestinians.

And of course the final reason that the Palestinian cause is in such lime-light is the power of the Arab League as a body in the UN General Assembly.....the reason that Israel has had dozens upon dozens of UN Resolutions against it is owed ENTIRELY to the HUGE Islamic voting block in the UN General Assembly.

 

[searcher]

So, basically, Arizona, California, Kansas and West Virginia, a kid can get married at 10, if I read that right???

Actually no. Here in this state(KS), you will get locked up for doing anything with any child under age 16, even if you are 17. My Wife works in the district courthouse and we see this all of the time, guys and girls convicted of rape, for having inetrcourse with ther bf or gf that is under age 16, even though it is consentual. I am not sure where Wikipedia got their info, but it is wrong in this instance.



And on another note, the Pope does not control all Christians, only the Catholics.

 

[elder999]

Actually no. Here in this state(KS), you will get locked up for doing anything with any child under age 16, even if you are 17. My Wife works in the district courthouse and we see this all of the time, guys and girls convicted of rape, for having inetrcourse with ther bf or gf that is under age 16, even though it is consentual. I am not sure where Wikipedia got their info, but it is wrong in this instance.

Actually, the statute in Kansas for marriage (which is what was under discussion) had no minimum age until 2006. So, Wikipedia was right. One could, in theory, with the permission of the parents, the signature of an officiant recognized by the state, and proper witnesses, have obtained a marriage license and marry a 10 year old. Not necessarily have sex with them, though it seems that under those circumstances it might be more difficult to prosecute. THe marriage age in Kansas is now 15, for instance, though this can be waived with a court order. Under these circumstances, one could also marry a 15 year old, which, while not quite as "icky" as a 10 year old, still might come under the statutory rape circumstances you've outlined.

And on another note, the Pope does not control all Christians, only the Catholics.

More to the point, the Pope does not control all Catholics, only Catholicism.

 

[Cryozombie]

Again, anyone who tells me that Christianity is no different than Islam has yet to take up my challenge.........publish an unflattering drawing of Christ, and see how you're free speech is protected........draw ANY PICTURE OF MOHAMMAD and watch as those who spout 'free speech' abandon you, and you get visited by some new 'friends' quite interested in your drawings.

I agree. When you can paint a picture (or was it a sculpture, it escapes me now) of Christ made from Fecal matter, and everyone attacks the Christians who condemmed the "art" but then calls making a Muslim watch someone wiping ones backside with pages from the Koran "tasteless" and "torture"... It astounds me. It goes back to what I have always said, everyone claims to want Equality amongst men (and women) but what they really want is "Special"

 

[searcher]

elder-good points on both. I suppose one could marry and not concemate the marriage.

 

[searcher]

And for all of you guys talking about free speach, give it a rest. As of Tuesday, you are not going to have it anymore. Or at least by the end of the week.



This is my opinion and I will stick by it. Feel free to flame all you wish.

 

[tellner]

sgtmac, the first ****er who tried to kill me was a Christian. It was because I was a Jew, was happy to be a Jew and didn't want to chew crackers and guzzle grape juice on Sunday. He tried to stick a ****ing knife into my guts for it and threatened to come back with a gun.

So don't give me that self-righteous crap about how your tribe's taboos and rituals are better than any other tribe's. At least the Muslims have some place for people who don't stick their butts up in the air five times a day.

From the time they first took power until damn near today it's been S.O.P. for Christians to convert, expel or kill anyone who wasnt' one of them. The only non-Christians left alive in Europe after the Jesus-worshippers took it over were Jews. That's only because your religion forbids killing every one of us off. A few have to be left as sacrifices to Gog and Magog or be converted. It didn't mean you couldn't rape us, burn our houses, kill most of us, steal everything we had and throw us out of our homes.

Until Church-loving Franco died and the fascists were finally eased into the toilet of history there hadn't been a single Muslim or Jew legally living in Spain or Portugal for almost five hundred years. Until that time there was an Inquisition against the Jews and Muslims. Its orders were simple. Find anyone who didn't bend his knee and engage in ritual cannibalism, torture him, and kill him for the Glory of Christ. Oh yes, they were supposed to torture and kill the women and little children as well.

The Christians murdered Jews wholesale throughout Eastern and Central Europe from the thirteenth century to the point where the Nazis had to protect them from Polish and Romanian Christians so they could be rounded up and slaughtered in an orderly fashion.

The lucky were kept in ghettoes.

That was when Catholics weren't murdering Hugenots, the Church of England wasn't murdering Catholics, Catholics and Orthodox werent' slaughtering each other from the Balkans to Byeloruss and everyone wasn't practicing outright genocide against the Romany.

The saying "Kill them all, the Lord will know his own" was just that sort of thing. There were towns of Cathar Christians. It was hard to tell who was the right sort of Christian. So Christian policy was to kill everyone and wait for Judgment Day to sort it all out.

The bloodiest and most terrible civil war in history was the Tai-Peng rebellion in China. Crazed Christians ended up murdering at least twenty million, and that was just battlefield casualties and official dead. That doesn't include the millions starved because he expected Jesus to come back any minute and took planting the fields as a lack of faith.

Not too far off we had the aftermath of the Opium Wars. As the Chinese say "Buddha came into China on a white horse. Christ came in on a cannonball." The missionaries hand in glove with the drug dealers who forced their disgusting filth into Chinese ports to help with the Christian world's balance of payments.

America? People who could read and think had to fight like hell to keep the Christians from having an Established Church. The only reasons we don't have one is a disagreement among the fanatics about which shaman would have the Big Juju and get to Lord it over the rest and some glimmerings among the thinkers that nobody should have the big sticks of Church AND State in the same set of hands. But that didnt' stop "restricted" neighborhoods. It didn't stop quotas to keep Jews and Catholics out of universities, trades and jobs in areas which didn't want that sort around. It didn't stop your Brothers in the Klan from coming around to burn and kill. And it didn't stop the blanket parties for Jews when my father was in the Army.

Your Commander in Chief, George W. Bush, has said publicly that he "chosen by G-d" to lead the country. His daddy said that people who didn't believe in your Big Magic Sky Guy weren't citizens. Your Ayatollahs like Warren say your sort should be "like the Hitler Youth", that you have to wage "spiritual warfare" against everyone who isn't just like you, that we should invade countries "kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" and replace secular govnerment with a theocracy. These aren't fringe nuts. These are people like Dobson, Robertson and Kennedy, your religion's respected leaders.

So don't get so superior and sanctimonious. There's at least as much innocent blood on Christ's hands as on Mohammed's.