Moderation Level

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Bob Hubbard, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Recently we're gotten a large number of complaints concerning a couple of members. No, I'm not naming names here.

    The complaints fall into the following categories.

    1- I don't like what he said. Censor him.
    2- I don't like how he said what he said. Censor him.
    3- I don't like him. Ban him.
    4- A few actually did deal with rules issues and were addressed.

    Neither I nor my staff will be used to censor or shut down a differing opinion. That's never been our purpose here.

    If someone is stating something you don't like, you have these options:

    1- Put the person on ignore.
    If they piss you off that much, use the sites built in feature to hide their comments from your view. Have the personal strength to not 'peek'.

    2- Tune them out.
    If you are unwilling to use the 'ignore' feature, or can't figure out how to use it (see FAQ forum for help or post in the support forum and we'll be happy to walk you through it.) put on some blinders and tune them out.

    3- Keep reporting non-rules violations and risk a warning or infraction for abuse of the RTM system.

    4- Respond to them, but don't rise to the bait. Don't add more fuel on the fire. Someone lashes out, be polite in return. They'll look like an even bigger ***, which makes it easier to moderate. When everyone's swinging, everyone loses.

    The alternative is we put the TKD and other KMA areas under strict moderation. This means that -all- member posts will be placed in a queue and reviewed by a moderator prior to becoming publicly visible. This may delay posts by a few days as we're pretty busy as is and that's a lot more work. We will run all posts through a -strict- check against the sites TOS and reject -all- that even hint at violating them. It will make these sections nice and quiet. Quiet as in dead. Since after a day or 2 of such active moderation, traffic will grind to a halt and post counts will drop to almost nothing.

    Your call folks. Grow a little thicker skin and in a few cases grow up already, or kill off the whole TKD area.

    This isn't a kindergarten. It's my belief that our members do not wish to be treated like children and micro-managed. This means act like adults, and work some things out among yourselves -before- mods have to get involved. It also means that people are going to hold different views and beliefs, which some will hold to no matter what you say or do. Such is life. See #1 & #2 & #4.

    Our goal is an active, thriving, diverse TKD forum. Heavy modding would defeat that I think.
     
  2. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    My spider sense told me this thread was coming.:)
     
  3. SahBumNimRush

    SahBumNimRush Master of Arts

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    I personally have thoroughly enjoyed my experience in the KMA threads since joining here. While there may be some heated debates, I think that for the most part it has been enlightening. I hope it doesn't come down to micro-management and strict moderation. I like that we can converse in near real time on here.. .
     
  4. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    You know, I dont see the point to most of the disagreements in the first place. Its obvious that if two people are set in their opinions, theyre not going to change them because someone they dont even know shows them otherwise. And even then, why does one have to prove themself right? I say, if I may be blunt, let them argue, and shut them up if it goes on for longer than 10-15 posts. Unless its amounting to something.
     
  5. Gemini

    Gemini Senior Master

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    Reminds me of when I got here, though I thought we had cleaned it up pretty good at one time. People just don't understand what a turn off it is to the larger community. A lack of junior students or knowledge seekers usually indicates a problem, like they don't feel welcome. Shame.
     
  6. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    I agree strongly. There is a lot of interesting information at times in those heated threads. It's just a matter of cooling your emotions and ignoring the irrelevant bits.Not to mention we all build track records after a period of participation. Surely we all know which posters don't suit our tastes and we can master ourselves accordingly, even if only to skip past their posts?
     
  7. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    For the most part, this section provided a pretty substantial value in the information exchanged. Part of the problem exists when a person is unable to separate an issue from the person. This gets compounded when they begin trolling i.e. starting multiple threads about the person they have an issue with, going at them in multiple other threads etc. It gets compounded further when friends of this individual feel compelled to jump in with less-than-pleasant remarks in threads they really aren't contributing to much, or at all.

    The ignore feature, with no offense intended, is not a solution. A person's reputation is a valuable thing to them, and to their students. When one or more individuals start trolling, as listed above, with cheeky remarks designed to malign a person...well the old saying is 'tell a lie loud enough and often enough and people will start to believe it. It also makes you look like your dodging questions, which can raise a red flag even if it is unintentional.

    I'm going to suggest adding a feature to Martial Talk that I have used successfully on Martial Warrior for years. We called it the 'Octagon ' but you could use any term you wish. The Octagon was simply a small section of the board that I created for disputes. The normal rules of the board remained such as you can't cuss the guy out or lie etc. A thread was created specifically for the two people having a dispute, and only they could post in it (and mods if necessary of course). This way the two individuals could discuss the matter directly with each other without one or the others buddies coming in and taking jabs. The biggest benefit was that the dispute remained ONLY in that one thread, which meant that it could not spill out to the rest of the board in multiple threads. If it did, then it was instant grounds for suspension. This encouraged members to remain civil and pleasant with each other on the board, while providing a direct outlet for them to hash it out. I required all factual information to be just that, factual. Which meant the person had to supply sources for the statements they made if necessary. If it was an opinion, it was just that, an opinion. If the second party refused to engage the other in the Octagon over the dispute, but instead continued to harass i.e. be a troll on the open board then guess what....suspension.

    It worked. And it made the moderation job a heck-of-a-lot easier. Once the thread between the two reached a conclusion the matter was closed. If it resurfaced on the open board i.e. snide remarks, unpleasant remarks, buddies jumping in etc...suspension. It was just that easy.
     
  8. StudentCarl

    StudentCarl 3rd Black Belt

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    I see a variation on KongSooDo's tagline:

    We don't rise to the occasion...we sink to the level of our insecurities.

    There is value in discussing content, but ego battles just shows the insecurity of the poster. We need to hold ourselves to a higher standard than that. Don't cross the line from sharing information/ideas into a contest of who's right. You can't keep others from their ignorance, but you don't need to join them at their level either.
     
  9. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    Oh my god kids in a play ground? What is next he looked at me. Seriously can't we all agree to dis-agree?
     
  10. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

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    Many other forums that were bullied by key folks regardless of their wealth of knowledge have dried up and dissapeared. Why? because after a while you can be right all the time but only you are left listening.
     
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  11. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    If you've called it the Octagon you will have the UFC lawyers sueing you! it's trademarked lol! :)
     
  12. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    How about the mud pit? That might fit better :uhyeah:
     
  13. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    Never wrestle with a pig because you only get dirty...and the pig likes it :uhyeah:
     
  14. sopraisso

    sopraisso Blue Belt

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    I confess I'm surprised with this. I've been reading this section of the forum almost daily, and although I've seen heated discussions, I didn't imagine someone would've felt personally offended (at least not in a way that couldn't be ignored).
    After the time I started reading the forum I really learned a lot, and even it's like I know a little about most posters. No need to say I feel particular simpathy for many of them, what doesn't mean I don't enjoy everyone else's contributions. Particularly in the heated discussions, I don't believe there was a single time I couldn't learn a lot with every side of the controversy. If the forum becomes strictly moderated, I know all would be lost since then, and I would have to go look after knowledge in forums where people don't know that much and where there's not 10% the respect and maturity I'm used to seeing here.
     
  15. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    If you only knew...lol. To this day, I'm still shocked at the things people say. I mean, really, its a message board. Its so easy to walk away, ignore, etc, yet for some, its so hard. I often wonder what these people do in real life, when they can't walk away or ignore. Do they quit their jobs because of a coworker? LOL.
     
  16. aedrasteia

    aedrasteia Purple Belt

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    Hey Dortiz

    "because after a while you can be right all the time but only you are left listening".

    I am SO stealing this - OK? credit to you.
     
  17. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    Jello pit...fits better and we can have $1.00 draft nights. :)
     
  18. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    I must say I'm surprised and pleased with the replies. I expected at least 1 'sod off' (which usually happens in cases like this.)

    My problem with a 'pit fight' area is, it seems like a childish solution IMO. We've long suggested that people take their personal differences to the PM or email systems where any arguing is out of site. Sure you lose the 'train wreck voyer' traffic boost, but it just never struck me as polite or professional. Case in point, if you're having a disagreement with a parent in your school you bring them into the office and shut the door, you don't argue with them in the middle of the training floor so that everyone can see. I can see the idea working for some sites, but not here. It's come up a few times to be honest and each time the cons outweigh the pros.

    I honestly don't want to do heavy modding. Right now, we're running light on staff, everyones got lives outside the site including me, and we just have better things to do than nitpick and comb things that finely. Shouldn't have to as the majority of our members are adults capable of behaving accordingly.

    What we don't want is to have to deal with hundreds (we're in the dozens now) of reported posts that are really differences of opinion, at the same time we need members to flag the real trouble so we can get involved if we need to. Optimally, we won't as members work things out themselves before they explode. Reading through the replies here has made me feel better about the KMA and TKD sections, something I thank everyone who replied for. These are some of MT's busiest areas and I want to see them continue to grow and prosper, but to do that I need everyones help. I think we're in good shape. :asian:
     
  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You do? Damn, I usually just bring them onto the mat so I can 'demo' a SD move to the kids and then choke them out or something. Seriously, it's the fathers you see, they think they know better than me, what with being only a woman and them big roughy toughy soldiers (that'll never work is what I get), so I have to show them who's right, it has to be done.
     
  20. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    Let me toss this out for consideration and possible resolution. What is the best option if one or two members (who are buddies) continually drop little sarcastic or negative remarks that are designed to put you in a bad light or derail the thread? Probably not quite enough to RTM, or perhaps it is but I'm hesitant. Almost like a drive-by. Usually sarcastic or off-topic and definitely non-constructive. The ignore feature isn't an option imo as it is often a personal zinger. And I think a lot of people would feel compelled to defend themselves. I don't want to overburden the mods, but at the same time this sort of thing just really needs to stop. Too be honest, if these folks really had a legitimate dislike of/for me I'd rather them just be upfront and say exactly how they feel and why and then see if there is any validity to it. If so, then it can be addressed. If it isn't valid, then they really need to zip up the sarcasm.

    My intention isn't to act like them or go to their level. But sometimes you just have had it up to your eyeballs with them and you engage them which ends up in warnings and thread closings. I've tried the pm route, neither wishes to engage. Not enough of an audience in a pm. I've offered to give them free reign in an off-board venue, neither will accept. They seem content to zip in for a drive-by and then zip out. Or mix in some unnecessary sarcasm or negative comments with something legitimate. I'm not talking about simple disagreement, I'm talking about simple uncivil behavior.

    So I'd like to hear your thoughts. Appreciate it.123
     

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