MIT student at Logan

[Andrew Green]

Another interesting thing to consider is the evolution of the "facts"

What was paint on her shirt became putty, then the putty became playdoe and moved from her shirt to on her fingers, then it turned into her carrying a wad of it around...

Her claim that it was "art" became "performance art".

Her responding to the information booth attendant that it was "art" and then walking away turned into her just walking away when questioned about the shirt.

 

[Cruentus]

For those of you who don't believe me, the device on her shirt looks EXACTLY like an actual detonator. Go ahead and check out these inert explosive devices: http://www.letargets.com/html/explosive_training_devices2.html

About 1/2 way down the page you can see a circuit board and timer that attaches to a 9v battery that simulates an actual detonator. You don't need a timer for the device to work; you simply touch the wires and blamo.

And yes, there are certain areas that are considered more of a target then others, and will cause more alarm. She could probably go into the local pizza place and not be questioned with her shirt, but not in an airport or courthouse for example..

 

[Andrew Green]

But at the same time those basic components are common to all electronic devices, not something specific to detonators.

Complete circuit light turns on, complete circuit buzzer buzzes, complete circuit bomb goes boom.

 

[shesulsa]

Richard Reid's shoe wasn't suspicious looking.

Yeah I've said that a couple of times and even included the foto ... but nobody wants to talk about *that.*

 

[Andrew Green]

Yeah I've said that a couple of times and even included the foto ... but nobody wants to talk about *that.*

I think a lot of people just want to believe that a person looking to do harm should be obvious, and that if you are alert you should be able to spot them.

But if I wanted to sneak a bomb into a place, giving it flashing lights and wearing it on my chest in full view would not be my first choice, something that people have on them every day and by all outward appearances was nothing special at all would be.

 

[Mark L]

Another interesting thing to consider is the evolution of the "facts"

What was paint on her shirt became putty, then the putty became playdoe and moved from her shirt to on her fingers, then it turned into her carrying a wad of it around...

Her claim that it was "art" became "performance art".

Her responding to the information booth attendant that it was "art" and then walking away turned into her just walking away when questioned about the shirt.

I pointed to both the New York Times and the Associated Press as characterizing the material as modeling clay / Play-Doh right from the start. The only place I've seen referencing paint is here. I haven't seen any reference to location other than her hand, where did you see this? I don't know why the circuit board itself is the focus of the discussion. I'm an EE, I knew exactly what that prop is and what it does at a glance. The LEDs look like they are arranged in the shape of a star. Would that have any significance if you didn't know her name? Like if you were a cop in an airport. What alarms me is the goop she was holding in her hand coupled with the circuit board on display. I think that is the cause for alarm, and is why the authorities did what they did.

"Performance art" was part of my original post, maybe I was wrong to say that, maybe I wasn't. In prior posts I have quoted the state police major as saying she said she wanted to be noticed / stand out, or words to that effect. Want to debate active vs. passive performance?

Again, the data dump from the state police indicates she walked away without answering the question posed by the airport employee. I've not seen any reference indicating she replied to the query with "art", where did you see that?

I've also not heard outrage expressed by Ms. Simpson or her representatives, no reports that she has been 'convicted' without the benefit of due process, that she's being railroaded, that she's simply an innocent victim of a mis-understanding. Nothing from the ACLU, I don't think. Can you point to any credible source that says her arrest was unjustifiable?

I work with lots of MIT folks, I've had Course IV interns and grad students working for me for 20+ years, including two of her classmates this past summer. My experience is that these are really, really bright folks, and there is little that escapes them. I don't for a second believe that Ms. Simpson was surprised by the reaction she elicited. BTW, I saw her today at lunch in Cambridge, she looked quite comfortable and happy riding her bike along Main St with a friend (streaming very long pink hair through the holes of his helmet).

 

[Carol]

Most of the people complaining about Boston's reaction to perceived terror threats are people that don't live here.

I haven't heard a lot of outrage from many people here in eastern Massachusetts.

 

[Mark L]

Most of the people complaining about Boston's reaction to perceived terror threats are people that don't live here.

I haven't heard a lot of outrage from many people here in eastern Massachusetts.

Check.

 

[Big Don]

Most of the people complaining about Boston's reaction to perceived terror threats are people that don't live here.

I haven't heard a lot of outrage from many people here in eastern Massachusetts.

Given that two of the planes on 9-11 flew out of Logan, I'd say their reactions are understated.

 

[Rich Parsons]

There has been an unrelated story in Canadian news about indictments against 16 terror suspects that were caught in 2006 in a major plot against the Canadian government.

The story is here. Attached the the story is a photo of Canadian police on patrol at what looks like Pearson International Airport in Toronto (yes, Rush fans, it's YYZ), with submachine guns at the ready. They are certainly prepared to take action at gunpoint...

I was in Canada when that case broke. Their media coverage is much different than the US.

 

[Carol]

Given that two of the planes on 9-11 flew out of Logan, I'd say their reactions are understated.

Five of the people that perished lived within two miles of my home...

Our city's disastrous infrastructure dubbed the "Big Dig" had the unintended end result of making our city more vulnerable to a devastating terror act terrorism than most cities due to its infrastructure. The main traffic artery through the city used to be an elevated expressway, it's now a 6 lane tunnel that runs underneath the heart of downtown, flanked by Boston Harbor.

So yes, when the Cartoon Network pranksters put up LED blinky-thingies at the entrance to these tunnels....yeah, some people got very concerned and called people that took the concern seriously.

Its a different city that has had different experiences.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I think some of you guys are ill-informed at best. Those of you who have any training with Improvised Explosive Devices will agree with this point. If you haven't, then you'll just have to take my word on this.

What she had on her shirt looked EXACTLY LIKE a common device used to denote an improvised explosive device, of which C-4 or some other explosive material would be strapped to the chest or waist on the inside of the clothing. The simple circuit board, wiring, and 9-volt battary is all that is needed for a detonator. If this had been "real," a suicide bomber would simply touch one of the wires to the positive or negative charge on the battary depending on the set-up, and blammo.

This could have been a vary real incidence with a vary different outcome.

Some of you can live in your own insolated world if you would like. Maybe it was just a stunt, but I'm not buying **** until a thorough investigation. I am of the opinion that this ***** needs to be seriously looked into.

If yall knew how often people have been "testing" airport security to see what can be gotten away with, and who they might be working for, it'd make your head spin...

C.

One could hope that those serious enough would attach the power lead first, and then look to attach the ground when they desire. Why? Ground can be found in lots of places, such as car doors or houses, or tables, or , and they hopefully would just be another Darwin award winner.

Arresting someone on sight like this is for the greater security. Once it was determined to be a stunt, she may not have been sent to some detention center for questioning, but being charged with disturbing the peace and other charges are valid. People used to like to yell "FIRE" in the movie theatres to see peopel run. It is now illegal so they can prosecute.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Never doubt the stupidity of homegrown wack-jobs that just get off on doing stuff like that too. I dont doubt that some are terr. dry runs, but I think many could be nutters too.

Yes, I agree Home grown Militia orgs can cause terrorism and damage. See our history prior to 9/11/01

 

[Mark L]

Five of the people that perished lived within two miles of my home...

I knew two. One of them, the co-pilot of AA 11, was my classmate at both Burlington High School '77 and BU '81, the other was my teacher and guidance counselor at BHS, a passenger (with his wife) on AA 11. The recent events at Logan do not disturb me one bit.

 

[Rich Parsons]

No, I'm thinking that a person should not be arrested, or have to post bail unless there is some good evidence supporting the claim that they did something illegal. But I can't see the crime here.

The crime is similar to yelling fire or walking into the airport with a firearm or knife. The signs say no weapons. This includes what some people perceive to be weapons as well.

The crime of causing a stampede or panic or the threat of it.

And they should definitely have investigated, determined it was a harmless "fashion" display and thats it, duty done, everyone is safe.

I would have still detained her. Why? To find out if she needed a psych eval. Why would anyone do this? Also I would not let her go back out and possible cause a panic. I mean what would happen if they let her go and someone thought they needed to do something about her. Detaining her and removing her is also for her protection.

And you are right, I do work with computers and could probably pull half a dozen items that would make as convincing of a "bomb" as that out of the back room without much effort at all. The idea that I could get arrested for them seems absurd.

I travel with a laptop. I pack all controllers in check in. Yet, I still get full investigation on my bag with the charger cords and vehicel charge and accessories. But if you do it right, it is only a proble for the people behind you in line as you need three or four tubs to put your stuff in and then to re pack everything on the other side.


************


I recently traveled from Las Vegas to St Paul to Flint. We change planes in St. Paul. I got on and this guy was sitting in my seat. Back of the plane next to the bathroom and an isle seat. He looked at me and said "Ya Ya" He continued to play with something in the seat back and then stood up like I would get in. I looked at him and said I have the isle seat. He got in and was not happy. He then proceded to just sit there and ignore me. Until right before take ioff. He pulled out his cell phone and made a call. He was on the phone even after they said all phone off. (* I have talked to some pilots personally who conducted the test in flight themselves and they do interfer with the tracking and Nav systems. *) The Stewardess came by and I pointed at him she did not understand and I looked at her crossed my eyes and pointed agian with my outside arm. She then told him to put the phone up. He did not. She checked the back of the plane and the bathroom and then came back and told him again. He waved her off. ** He was supposedly talking to his familiy ** She went up and did not give the all clear. She got on the PA again and told the plane to turn off cell phones. She then walked through again and this time when she told him he did. This delay actually cost us our take off slot. To me this is terrorism. I wanted to hit him right then and there. So we get off the ground and the first thing he does as soon as the wheels are off the ground he pulls out a pocket new testament. Not the whole bible just the new testament. He then starts to read passages and moves to the next and then the next while he is rocking the whole time. The passages were about Bringing the work of Christ to others and "Making" others see the light and the teachings of JC.

Now if this was a dark haired guy like me and looked Islamic or middle easter like me and if it was the Quran then it would have been a major issue for many. But as he was white and red hair, no one else around me had a problem. Most of the people were worreid about me. ** Stupid ****s **

So I position my self to strike and prepare to stop him if required. I am serious, I was ready to kill him becuase he was acting like a LOON!.

Now the level increases. He starts counting on his hands how far up the exits are. Now I do this, but I do not need to count on my fingers and talk out loud doing it. He also started counting where all the large guys on the plane were. I could watch his fingers count and his eyes and head nod and see what he was doing.

Now I am really geared up and ready for him to try to get up and "use the bathroom"

Next level of intensity, he pulls out his cell phone and starts to play with it. Turns it on and starts to push lots of buttons. I look at him like I am going to kill him if he hits the send button. I am obvious about it. He then begins to realize that I am staring at him and and his phone and he turns it off.

In the end the plane landed with no issuse. He got picked up in a beat up van (* matched him and his look and the look of his wife and kid *).

Most would ask why worry about it?

Others would say I over reacted? Yet I know on flights the same actions by certain types got the planed landed and people arrested.

Some might call it a win as I am alive and nothing happened. I call it a loss as I had a very bad flight and he farted and it smelled like salami. Which to me is just another form of personal terrorism towards me.


I know I fit certain profiles. I am large, unknown race, travel with electronics, and have no jewelry. I know I get special attention all the time. I understand this. But I also know how to react and get through with the minimum issues. I always ask to enter the metal detector. I always ask if my bags and equipment are "Clear" before I touch them. I always ask the person at the end watching, if it is ok for me to leave once I am repacked. It takes hardly any time and it avoids issues.


******

Now for something funny. In the late 80's I traveled to California and came back with a red wood pine cone. In the carry on bag though the x-ray machine was stopped and other brought in to look at it while being x-ray'd. Once allowed to talk, as they did not want me too until the Experts had a chance to look, I explained that I had a shaving kit, hair dryer, and a pine cone. Imagine razor blades lined up with the pine cone and the coil and plug for the hair dryer. It looked like it was an IED. They let the bag out and had me open it. Once open they verified what I told them, and let me go. Note: Everything in the bag was not visable to the outside where it could have caused fear in others.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N41/simpson.html

“Still,” DiFava continued, “of all places, an airport; of all airports, Logan. … Logan even confiscates water bottles.” The two planes that struck the World Trade Center on Sept. 11 departed from Logan, and American Airlines Flight 63 was diverted to the airport on Dec. 21, 2001 after Richard Reid attempted to blow up the plane using explosives concealed in his shoe.

Dwyer said that he believes the police have a protocol they must follow and that these days there is “no opportunity for the exercise of discretion.” Dwyer said that prior to 9/11, he believes no arrest would have been made in this case.

 

[rutherford]

Most of the people complaining about Boston's reaction to perceived terror threats are people that don't live here.

I haven't heard a lot of outrage from many people here in eastern Massachusetts.

I'll be in Boston tomorrow.

 

[Cruentus]

The crime is similar to yelling fire or walking into the airport with a firearm or knife. The signs say no weapons. This includes what some people perceive to be weapons as well.

The crime of causing a stampede or panic or the threat of it.



I would have still detained her. Why? To find out if she needed a psych eval. Why would anyone do this? Also I would not let her go back out and possible cause a panic. I mean what would happen if they let her go and someone thought they needed to do something about her. Detaining her and removing her is also for her protection.



I travel with a laptop. I pack all controllers in check in. Yet, I still get full investigation on my bag with the charger cords and vehicel charge and accessories. But if you do it right, it is only a proble for the people behind you in line as you need three or four tubs to put your stuff in and then to re pack everything on the other side.


************


I recently traveled from Las Vegas to St Paul to Flint. We change planes in St. Paul. I got on and this guy was sitting in my seat. Back of the plane next to the bathroom and an isle seat. He looked at me and said "Ya Ya" He continued to play with something in the seat back and then stood up like I would get in. I looked at him and said I have the isle seat. He got in and was not happy. He then proceded to just sit there and ignore me. Until right before take ioff. He pulled out his cell phone and made a call. He was on the phone even after they said all phone off. (* I have talked to some pilots personally who conducted the test in flight themselves and they do interfer with the tracking and Nav systems. *) The Stewardess came by and I pointed at him she did not understand and I looked at her crossed my eyes and pointed agian with my outside arm. She then told him to put the phone up. He did not. She checked the back of the plane and the bathroom and then came back and told him again. He waved her off. ** He was supposedly talking to his familiy ** She went up and did not give the all clear. She got on the PA again and told the plane to turn off cell phones. She then walked through again and this time when she told him he did. This delay actually cost us our take off slot. To me this is terrorism. I wanted to hit him right then and there. So we get off the ground and the first thing he does as soon as the wheels are off the ground he pulls out a pocket new testament. Not the whole bible just the new testament. He then starts to read passages and moves to the next and then the next while he is rocking the whole time. The passages were about Bringing the work of Christ to others and "Making" others see the light and the teachings of JC.

Now if this was a dark haired guy like me and looked Islamic or middle easter like me and if it was the Quran then it would have been a major issue for many. But as he was white and red hair, no one else around me had a problem. Most of the people were worreid about me. ** Stupid ****s **

So I position my self to strike and prepare to stop him if required. I am serious, I was ready to kill him becuase he was acting like a LOON!.

Now the level increases. He starts counting on his hands how far up the exits are. Now I do this, but I do not need to count on my fingers and talk out loud doing it. He also started counting where all the large guys on the plane were. I could watch his fingers count and his eyes and head nod and see what he was doing.

Now I am really geared up and ready for him to try to get up and "use the bathroom"

Next level of intensity, he pulls out his cell phone and starts to play with it. Turns it on and starts to push lots of buttons. I look at him like I am going to kill him if he hits the send button. I am obvious about it. He then begins to realize that I am staring at him and and his phone and he turns it off.

In the end the plane landed with no issuse. He got picked up in a beat up van (* matched him and his look and the look of his wife and kid *).

Most would ask why worry about it?

Others would say I over reacted? Yet I know on flights the same actions by certain types got the planed landed and people arrested.

Some might call it a win as I am alive and nothing happened. I call it a loss as I had a very bad flight and he farted and it smelled like salami. Which to me is just another form of personal terrorism towards me.


I know I fit certain profiles. I am large, unknown race, travel with electronics, and have no jewelry. I know I get special attention all the time. I understand this. But I also know how to react and get through with the minimum issues. I always ask to enter the metal detector. I always ask if my bags and equipment are "Clear" before I touch them. I always ask the person at the end watching, if it is ok for me to leave once I am repacked. It takes hardly any time and it avoids issues.


******

Now for something funny. In the late 80's I traveled to California and came back with a red wood pine cone. In the carry on bag though the x-ray machine was stopped and other brought in to look at it while being x-ray'd. Once allowed to talk, as they did not want me too until the Experts had a chance to look, I explained that I had a shaving kit, hair dryer, and a pine cone. Imagine razor blades lined up with the pine cone and the coil and plug for the hair dryer. It looked like it was an IED. They let the bag out and had me open it. Once open they verified what I told them, and let me go. Note: Everything in the bag was not visable to the outside where it could have caused fear in others.

:rofl: Totally off topic but...

2 things:

#1. We can't take Rich anywhere.

#2. What's funny about Rich is that he tells a serious story, and I am laughing my *** off. Then he goes into his "funny" story, which is not nearly as funny as his traumatic experience that involves me laughing my *** off.

Whew. Definatily have to get a beer soon Rich so you can tell me more about your trip! :lol: :cheers:

 

[Mark L]

I'll be in Boston tomorrow.

Seek opinions, let us know what you hear ...

 

[Carol]

Seek opinions, let us know what you hear ...

If you have blinky LED things on breadboards....you might want to keep them under wraps if you have to go to Logan