Mmm! Just could work. :hmm:
Martial Frankensteins...why the hate?
- Thread starter stone_dragone
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WC_lun
Senior Master
I know you're joking, but I wouldn't be suprised to see this posted in the future somewhere as a technique offered to get out of a rnc.
I know you're joking, but I wouldn't be suprised to see this posted in the future somewhere as a technique offered to get out of a rnc.
I was thinking that! And I can guess who will be thnking that's a good idea.........am just waiting for the post "That's what I did when I took on a gang in the street..."
I like "and in one bound he was free"
If you think you can, you can. If you think you can't, you're right.
I think I can. So that means I can, right? :ultracool
The horrible thing is that the dynamics of it make sense. It just isnt possible - And backward Headbutts arent that greatI know you're joking, but I wouldn't be suprised to see this posted in the future somewhere as a technique offered to get out of a rnc.
Thats what I did when I took out a Gang in the Street. One grabbed Me from behind in a Rear Naked Choke whilst the 6 others attacked Me with Knives. I did the Front Flip, and crashed the guys Back and Head right into the concrete (KO!), then I did the backwards Headbutt. The 6 others were so stunned by My Taekwondoness, that in one bound, I was free to use My highly trained economically efficient walking method down the street.
See? It really works.
Tez, You have officially made This Thread awesome :bangahead:
More ideas people!
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Getting out of an RNC is easy. All you have to do is spend a lot of time being put IN an RNC by people who are better at it than you.
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And no bites, or foot stomps involved.
I've had to tap out of the RNC myself. The guy yanked my head back and slid his arm under my chin so fast I had no choice. It was getting dark, very dark. If I can tuck my chin and keep the air and blood flowing long enough I try to get a hold of a finger and start prying them loose with their own fingers.
But yeah....seconds if that.
Had one big guy apply the RNC and was able to pick me up off my feet with my head....I don't remember much after that.
But yeah....seconds if that.
Had one big guy apply the RNC and was able to pick me up off my feet with my head....I don't remember much after that.
Noah_Legel
Blue Belt
I've never taken a BJJ class in my life, but the rear naked choke exists in judo (hadaka-jime) which is where I learned it, and since then I have applied it many times and had it applied to me many times. There are obviously people on this board who have applied it and had it applied to them thousands of times more than I, but even with my limited experience I'm confident I could put someone to sleep with it, stomping and biting allowed. I've never let myself pass out from a choke, but I've gotten pretty darn close and it does not take very long when the choke is properly applied--things start to go dark pretty quick.
WC_lun
Senior Master
Then you wake up thinking, "That was a wierd dream.."
I find little Alex's claim that he's going to bite into your artery amusing. It's proof positive of a total and complete lack of understanding of human anatomy.
And of course, you can't bite the arm in a properly applied RNC anyway.
WC_lun
Senior Master
...not to mention opening your mouth actually makes the rnc easier to sink in further if you in the proper position. If not, that open mouth can have some very powerful and painful leverage applied to it, even if he is trying to bite you. For those in Wing chun, think about what would happen if you brought your arms lap sau position then reinforcing it by grasping your elbows. Bad angles and leverage points for the victim.
Then you wake up thinking, "That was a wierd dream.."
We had a lad on his first fight caught in a RNC, he'd trained for that but as people have said when it's on it's on. He said he woke up in the ring wondering why all these people were in his bedroom.
WC_lun
Senior Master
First time I got choked out, I woke up with that naked-in-school-dream feeling. Everyone was staring at me and I didn't know why
First time I got choked out, I woke up with that naked-in-school-dream feeling. Everyone was staring at me and I didn't know why
Same here, but I thought I had a body accidental discharge
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I have been put to sleep twice. Both times, the choke was so tight I was out within at most 2 seconds. The first was a baseball bat choke applied by a 280 lbs commercial welder. The second was a bow and arrow choke that I thought I was defending well until I woke up.
J W
Green Belt
To maybe get this thread back on track a little, I'd like to point out something from page 6:
I think this quote demonstrates a misunderstanding that often makes "Frankensteining" together different arts a bad idea.
The Wing Chun vertical-fist, centerline punch is built from the ground up. It relies on the correct stance, the correct body mechanics, then correct method of power generation, and an understanding of Wing Chun in order to make it work. Without all of this, it is pretty useless as a "technique". The same is true for a boxer's punch- and the stance, body mechanics, power generation etc are all quite different from Wing Chun. I'm not familiar with Shotokan, but I'll just make an assumption here that what he is referring to is similar to the reverse punch found in many styles, like Tae Kwon Do. This also relies on a different structure than either the Wing Chun or the boxer's punch. (I'll leave the Bagua one alone, I know nothing of that).
Given all this, in order to effectively "shift from the horizontal punches of shotokan, to the straight line, vertical of Wing chun, to open-palm of ba-gua, to the brawling of boxing", one would also have to switch stances, switch to different body mechanics and methods of power generation, and quite often (and quite quickly) have to switch gears (mentally and physically) entirely.
This would require a pretty deep understanding of all these different systems to make it work. Otherwise, you would end up using the "techniques" of the various punches devoid of the system that gives them their effectiveness.
I think this quote demonstrates a misunderstanding that often makes "Frankensteining" together different arts a bad idea.
The Wing Chun vertical-fist, centerline punch is built from the ground up. It relies on the correct stance, the correct body mechanics, then correct method of power generation, and an understanding of Wing Chun in order to make it work. Without all of this, it is pretty useless as a "technique". The same is true for a boxer's punch- and the stance, body mechanics, power generation etc are all quite different from Wing Chun. I'm not familiar with Shotokan, but I'll just make an assumption here that what he is referring to is similar to the reverse punch found in many styles, like Tae Kwon Do. This also relies on a different structure than either the Wing Chun or the boxer's punch. (I'll leave the Bagua one alone, I know nothing of that).
Given all this, in order to effectively "shift from the horizontal punches of shotokan, to the straight line, vertical of Wing chun, to open-palm of ba-gua, to the brawling of boxing", one would also have to switch stances, switch to different body mechanics and methods of power generation, and quite often (and quite quickly) have to switch gears (mentally and physically) entirely.
This would require a pretty deep understanding of all these different systems to make it work. Otherwise, you would end up using the "techniques" of the various punches devoid of the system that gives them their effectiveness.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
ayup, that's a point I've been trying to make over and over. This is what makes something a cobbled-together mess.
If you want to have a punch in your arsenal, then you need to have one way of generating the power for that punch. Not ten, one each for the ten different systems, each with it's own foundation, that you've dabbled in - er - "studied"
and that one way of generating power should be used in all of your techniques, not just that punch. That's what it means to have a method that ties it all together, vs. just having a collection of "techniques"
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
believe it or not, depending on what you are doing and how you are doing it, there are techniques that you are better off NOT having in your arsenal, because how they are done properly conflicts with how you do everything else.
J W
Green Belt
Part of why I didn't want to let that quote slip by. Sometimes you gotta say the same thing a dozen different ways to get your point across.
True. More is not always better.
The arts are ever evolving. However, as with any evolving entity, it's foundation must be strong; hence, it is not naturally selected against. The problem with a lot of "Frankenstein" martial artists (as you have dubbed it) is that they don't have that foundation. I'm not making accusations or speaking for anyone else but myself, but, if I'm not mistaken, the goal should be in pursuit of mastery (which is never successful) in one's art. This art fits their abilities and is appropriate for them in terms of their nature. The artist should be trying to excell in their own natural capacities. The adoption of other means is therefore an adaptation. This adaptation does not supercede the art of which one is naturally inclined; rather, it compliments it.
If one has not aligned himself to his art, he is not aligned to his nature.
This being said, the "Frankenstein" artist strikes me as the potential student trying to elect the art that he will pursue; ultimately never finding it.
Again, this doesn't speak for everyone. Many fighters have made great careers out of "hodge-podge" fighting principles. I think this style of learning lacks a certain discipline and studiousness that turns the potential P.H.D. pupil into the college drop-out.
Matt SWK
If one has not aligned himself to his art, he is not aligned to his nature.
This being said, the "Frankenstein" artist strikes me as the potential student trying to elect the art that he will pursue; ultimately never finding it.
Again, this doesn't speak for everyone. Many fighters have made great careers out of "hodge-podge" fighting principles. I think this style of learning lacks a certain discipline and studiousness that turns the potential P.H.D. pupil into the college drop-out.
Matt SWK
