Man keeps coming after being tazed, sprayed, and slugged

[KenpoTex]

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 (SF Chronicle)
REDWOOD CITY/Police kill man after stun gun, spray fail
Michael Cabanatuan


Police shot and killed a 35-year-old man who withstood efforts to subdue him for eight hours -- including being pepper-sprayed and shot with a stun gun and a weapon that fires hard rubber plugs -- before he jumped through a window and charged officers with a machete, authorities said Monday.

The man was visiting relatives on the 1200 block of Valota Road on Sunday when his family called police to report he was acting strangely and might have assaulted his nephew, Capt. Scott Warner said.

When officers arrived about 12:30 p.m., the man waved a machete at police and retreated into a bedroom, where he barricaded himself in a closet.

In an attempt to get him to drop his weapon, police doused him with pepper spray eight times, hit him with rubber plugs from a weapon known as a sage gun roughly 15 times and shot him in the chest with an electronic stun gun twice, police said.
He withstood the pepper spray and sage-gun blasts, Warner said, pulled one stun-gun probe out of his chest with his hands and used the machete to slice the second probe's wires.
Police opened fire when the man, still wielding the machete, jumped through a window and charged them, police said.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/01/04/BAG1TAKJIF1.DTL

Police said they used pepper spray, wooden dowels, and a taser, but the man still refused to drop the machete.

"I've never seen someone completely impervious to all of our less-lethal options that we use," said Captain Scott Warner of the Redwood City Police Department. "It really didn't seem to have any effect. We could tell that it hurt, but it didn't hurt him in a way that caused him to surrender or cause him to drop his weapon."

Officers outside a window of the home fired the fatal shots after they said the man ran at them with a machete raised over his head.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/kpix/20050104/lo_kpix/12346

Just another example of why you shouldn't rely on "less lethal" methods. Before anyone starts B****ing, I'm not saying that the various "less-lethal" options are never viable, just that you should always be prepared to use the real stuff.

 

[Tgace]

Just another example of why you shouldn't rely on "less lethal" methods. Before anyone starts B****ing, I'm not saying that the various "less-lethal" options are never viable, just that you should always be prepared to use the real stuff.

Thats SOP, in Law Enforcement. You always have lethal cover when employing less lethal weapons.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

It's amazing what kind of punishment the human body can take.

We all have stories (some apocryphal) of people who were able to do amazing things even though severely injured or mortally wounded--for ill (in this case) or good.


Regards,


Steve

 

[GAB]

Hi All,

The story that comes out in the later findings will be interesting. The information at this point in time. Is sketchy at best.

When was all the taser and other non lethel force applied?

Before he was in the closet? When he came out the window? 8 hour stand off with a machete? Must have all occured after he came out of the closet, met officers in the bed room, and went outside through the window.

Not much room in the closet, how many hostages, LEO, don't use tear gas anymore?

Take the hinges off the door and ????
I hope this thread stay's on top of this one.

Regards, Gary

 

[Mr.Rooster]

Currently, there is a man in jail for crimes comitted in Washington, DC about ten years ago now. When he was finally arrested, he was shot 19 times and obviously, still alive.

 

[KenpoTex]

Currently, there is a man in jail for crimes comitted in Washington, DC about ten years ago now. When he was finally arrested, he was shot 19 times and obviously, still alive.

I've got a couple of the old "Tactial Edge" (I think that's the title) LEO training-manual series . Anyway, there's a picture in one of them of a man who took 33 rounds of 9mm before he finally went down. From the angle at which the picture was taken, I could see at least 8 rounds to either the head or throat. Scary stuff.

 

[Martial Tucker]

It's amazing what kind of punishment the human body can take.

We all have stories (some apocryphal) of people who were able to do amazing things even though severely injured or mortally wounded--for ill (in this case) or good.


Regards,


Steve

Especially when chemicals effectively "disconnect" the central nervous system. My bet is toxicology will show PCP in this one...

 

[Grenadier]

The officers did the right thing. Basically, if the guy doesn't go down with "non-lethal" methods, then you use everything you have to stop him.

On a side note, as Mr. Rooster stated, even when you're using lethal methods, that's still no guarantee that the guy is going to go down easily. This is especially true, when you consider how much adrenaline can help, as the below shootout description had its bad guys free from drugs or alcohol.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Miami_shootout,_1986

Platt would have died soon from the wound caused by the Silvertip, but kept fighting. Scary stuff indeed...

 

[kelly keltner]

From the story sounds like a perfectly acceptable use of force escalation to me.
kk

 

[Cruentus]

It's amazing what kind of punishment the human body can take.

We all have stories (some apocryphal) of people who were able to do amazing things even though severely injured or mortally wounded--for ill (in this case) or good.


Regards,


Steve

Since someone revived this, I'd like to mention that it does shed some light on the mythology of trying to predict trauma potential from what you train. "shoot him twice center mass and twice in the head" or " cut him here and he won't be able to close his hand" or " hit him in this pressure point and he'll be knocked out" or "do this armbar and his arm will break and he won't be able to fight." etc, etc, etc.

Just something to think about.

 

[Mr.Rooster]

Uh, that would be me that revived the thread so if you or other's don't like it, I guess I am on stand by for noogies and/or wedgies.

 

[Cruentus]

Uh, that would be that revived the thread so if you or other's don't like it, I guess I am on stand by for noogies and/or wedgies.

No wedgies from me....glad you revived it.

 

[Mr.Rooster]

Thank you kind Sir.
I think it's a good thread and could be used as motivation for training on days you may not feel like it because the good people we are suppose to protect may count on us against the bad guys who may be training harder then we are.

 

[doc5504]

operation fantom furry i teammate of my mine was goin to opean a door that was under the stairs when it exploted hiding in there was an insurgent we shot him 33 times 3 frags 3 9mm rounds to the head and still was shooting at us we finaly cut his throat he finialy dies my buddy lost 1in off his jaw and some teeth scary to time about it isnt it