** And if 'negate grappling' doesn't float your boat, fill in 'negate' with whatever term you like
I like good old anti grappling. It has a nice early 90s vibe to it and it pisses everyone off if you say it
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
** And if 'negate grappling' doesn't float your boat, fill in 'negate' with whatever term you like
Thank you for the hypotheticals... I'll remember to make sure to enter and hit a guy before he tries to grab me, that strategy never occurred to me To be fair, I didn't even use the word "grappling".
So you may call it grappling or anything else. name doesn't matter but fact is you must be able to deal with close range both being grabbed,held or throw/sweep attempts and you must also be able to keep the opponent close. This means you must understand how to control your balance ,break the opponents balance and finish with throw/sweep.
Your opponent can always jump on you from behind. You may not use "bear hug from behind", but since you can't prevent your opponent from using it, you have to know how to deal with it.
Sometime the grappling just cannot be avoided.
So you may call it grappling or anything else. name doesn't matter but fact is you must be able to deal with close range both being grabbed,held or throw/sweep attempts and you must also be able to keep the opponent close. This means you must understand how to control your balance ,break the opponents balance and finish with throw/sweep.
Your opponent can always jump on you from behind. You may not use "bear hug from behind", but since you can't prevent your opponent from using it, you have to know how to deal with it.
Sometime the grappling just cannot be avoided.
Actually in our wing chun it is all part of the system not personal preference. Lo Kwai's notes are very clear. Our wing chun contains a large amount of close body work with many sweeping and throwing methods. I realize that this is not emphasized in more modern forms of wing chun but was and is most definitely part of Leung Jan's teaching as passed to Lo Kwai.Agreed, except the underlined part isn't a requirement or a 'must' - just your personal preference and a nice added bonus for most.
Wing chun is a thing that needs to happen really fast and not let up. I can't see how you end up throwing unless your wing chun fails
And if you do want to throw and grapple, why on earth look to wing chun for that skill? There are a million better places to look.
Actually in our wing chun it is all part of the system not personal preference. Lo Kwai's notes are very clear. Our wing chun contains a large amount of close body work with many sweeping and throwing methods. I realize that this is not emphasized in more modern forms of wing chun but was and is most definitely part of Leung Jan's teaching as passed to Lo Kwai.
Dude, you are fighting a straw man. You are imagining arguments that frankly, I was not making. No one here is talking about Wing Chun being "grip fighting" or trying to out-grapple a grappler, and I never even mentioned ground fighting like you are bringing up. If someone throws a punch and my strike intercepts it, but they don't retract it, they are giving me an opportunity to possibly grab and control while I continue to strike. That might be prolonged contact, but that is Wing Chun. A headlock applied from the side can be countered with a over the arm fak sau movement to the opponent's face for example, but that is more than a strike. Its applying pressure to their head while simultaneously trying to step into their stance and uproot them, disrupting their grab. If I were opponent facing and hit the head but my other hand is blocked from replacing with another punch, why not dissipate my original punch and grab the back of their neck on its route back in order to disrupt? My descriptions might be lacking, but my point is that Wing Chun gives you options.You asked a load of questions that I answered. I take it you didn't like the answers? Hitting is wing chun stategy. Grappling is not. Make of that what you will.
Wing chun is a specialised tool for a particular job. It is a very good tool, maybe the best. But it isn't a multi tool that can do everything. If you try to use it in that way then you are kidding yourself. Your standing joint lock applications will look ridiculous against a decent grappler. Your throws will be weak. Your grip fighting will be pathetic. You will be destroyed because you will be playing someone else's game instead of your own.
If you find yourself grappling with someone, especially on the floor, then it is not the time for wing chun. That time has passed and your wing chun failed. Timescale of wing chun is sub 20 seconds, preferably sub 5 seconds. It is hitting and not letting up until the opponent falls down, all the while making it almost impossible to avoid being hit. It is a horrible thing to happen to a person, and it is very good at what it does.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Wing chun is a thing that needs to happen really fast and not let up. I can't see how you end up throwing unless your wing chun fails
And if you do want to throw and grapple, why on earth look to wing chun for that skill? There are a million better places to look.
Maybe his is limited to punching/hitting but the wing chun I have been exposed to certainly isn't.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wing chun is not limited to punching/hitting... sheesh
At best, I think what you are saying is an oversimplification. What does Wing Chun do when the hands are tied up? What does Wing Chun do when being locked or pinned? What does Wing Chun do when an attacker grabs and tries to take to the ground? The goal is to hit, but WC/WT/VT has tools for all the above when hitting is either not possible or efficient.
That is the question that I would like to ask you. When someone gets you into a "bear hug" from behind, first, you will need to break that "hug". Which WC principle will you use to achieve that?I don't believe anyone said grappling isn't going to happen, we've just been discussion different views on how Wing Chun deals with grappling. Any thoughts on that from a WC perspective?
That is the question that I would like to ask you. When someone gets you into a "bear hug" from behind, first, you will need to break that "hug". Which WC principle will you use to achieve that?
IMO, what you will do after you have broken that "hug" may be different between style to style (You may punch him if you are a striker. You may take him down if you are a grappler.) But how to break that "hug" is a general MA issue which will have nothing to do with "WC perspective".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wing chun is not limited to punching/hitting... sheesh
Dude, you are fighting a straw man. You are imagining arguments that frankly, I was not making. No one here is talking about Wing Chun being "grip fighting" or trying to out-grapple a grappler, and I never even mentioned ground fighting like you are bringing up. If someone throws a punch and my strike intercepts it, but they don't retract it, they are giving me an opportunity to possibly grab and control while I continue to strike. That might be prolonged contact, but that is Wing Chun. A headlock applied from the side can be countered with a over the arm fak sau movement to the opponent's face for example, but that is more than a strike. Its applying pressure to their head while simultaneously trying to step into their stance and uproot them, disrupting their grab. If I were opponent facing and hit the head but my other hand is blocked from replacing with another punch, why not dissipate my original punch and grab the back of their neck on its route back in order to disrupt? My descriptions might be lacking, but my point is that Wing Chun gives you options.
Its reductionist to look at the WC forms and say "this is all just to move an obstruction and hit, nothing more" like you appear to be saying.
In a potentially dangerous self defense situation, I'm glad my wing chun (as I am learning it) has tools to sweep or throw if the opportunity is there, so I can possibly strike the back of the head on the way down or stomp on them before practicing my run-fu to get the heck out of there, not hang around and punch until they are knocked out. Have you ever knocked anyone out? I'd like to think I could if I needed to , but I don't want my entire training to fail just because I have to knock them out to succeed.