Loki in Motion

[Loki]

I put up a video of me doing a couple of gun defenses in the video section. We were pressed for time since the sun was comin' down so my form could have been better, but I think it came out nice. I brightened it up a bit and slowed it down so you can see what I'm doing better. Check it out!

 

[James Miller]

Where is it?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

In the video section: http://martialtalk.com/videos

 

[MisterMike]

Not bad. The first technique's left hand grip looked a little "awkward" just because of the side of the body the gun was on and where you're hand started from.

One thing that came to my mind would be to push the gun forward from you with your left forearm and grab with the right hand as you pivoted away from the line of fire. Gun technique son the body are always a little tricky as the barrel can get caught in your clothes.

The second technique was hard to see as far as how your left hand was holding the attackers arm while you were striking him. Also, keeping it by your ear while he's potentially squeezing off a few more rounds is gonna leave a little bit of ringing

Just from only looking at thes 2 techs, I think I can get the gist of the methodology. It seems Krav Maga uses a bit of strikes before taking away the firearm. Is that a fair assessment?

Thanks for sharing though I love gun disarms and have always wnated to see Krav MAga in motion, and I'll see if I can't post a vid of some of our style's.

:asian:

 

[Loki]

Not bad. The first technique's left hand grip looked a little "awkward" just because of the side of the body the gun was on and where you're hand started from.

"Awkward"? Maybe you could call it that, but why would it be more awkward than if the gun were behind my arm?

One thing that came to my mind would be to push the gun forward from you with your left forearm and grab with the right hand as you pivoted away from the line of fire. Gun technique son the body are always a little tricky as the barrel can get caught in your clothes.

I hate it when that happens. But I don't understand what you meant with the hand switching: If I do as you suggested, I'd be turning my body so that my right hand would be further away from the gun, making it harder to grab. And even so, how do I strike next?

The second technique was hard to see as far as how your left hand was holding the attackers arm while you were striking him. Also, keeping it by your ear while he's potentially squeezing off a few more rounds is gonna leave a little bit of ringing

I caught his wrist between my bicep and forearm, towards the elbow.
You're right that my ears could be ringing, but if the barrel is placed low then turning around than way is safer. If you're certain the barrel is high, then yeah, it's better to turn towards him with your left forearm raised, move out of the line of fire while pushing with the forearm and switching to a grab with the same hand. But if it's low, better to have your ears ringing than your innards bleeding.

Just from only looking at thes 2 techs, I think I can get the gist of the methodology. It seems Krav Maga uses a bit of strikes before taking away the firearm. Is that a fair assessment?

That's right. Stun the bastard and take his weapon.

 

[Mark L]

I liked the first one, not the second. Props for putting it up, though. :asian:

The first thing I do is to get out of the line of fire, then disarm. The first technique does this. I like the way you use your left shoulder against him to keep him where you want him. Since the shot wasn't full length, I couldn't see the legs, did you move against the attackers lead leg with your left? If so I like that alot, multiple simultaneous points of attack gives him more to think about while your disarming. I recognize that the issue of clothing entanglement is quite real, but you have no choice, you'll have to deal with it.

The second technique doesn't address the disarm until the end, a potentially fatal flaw. Getting out of the way looks OK, but your trusting that you can control the right arm with that trap while you tap away (and I'm a kempo guy, I like tapping away). You also haven't controlled the wrist, so you are subject to him re-targeting. Try it against a resisting opponent. Those strikes don't look all that powerful, although I realize it was just a demo. If you really want to strike before you disarm, I'd recommend something with more of an immediate, predictable reaction. Sticking your finger in his eye, punching or grabbing the windpipe, or a palm heel to the nose will almost certainly cause a flinch backwards, affording you with a window of opportunity to go for the disarm.

 

[MisterMike]

"Awkward"? Maybe you could call it that, but why would it be more awkward than if the gun were behind my arm?

I was referring to the position of your grip. If I can recall correctly, you lifted your hand up and grabbed, palm/fingertips away from you, which looked as though he could pull out of your grip easier. Hands-down "hold-ups" are difficult though, so you still got my props for pulling it off.

 

[Loki]

The second technique doesn't address the disarm until the end, a potentially fatal flaw. Getting out of the way looks OK, but your trusting that you can control the right arm with that trap while you tap away (and I'm a kempo guy, I like tapping away). You also haven't controlled the wrist, so you are subject to him re-targeting. Try it against a resisting opponent. Those strikes don't look all that powerful, although I realize it was just a demo. If you really want to strike before you disarm, I'd recommend something with more of an immediate, predictable reaction. Sticking your finger in his eye, punching or grabbing the windpipe, or a palm heel to the nose will almost certainly cause a flinch backwards, affording you with a window of opportunity to go for the disarm.

I lengthened the technique a bit, but still, after a punch to the face and a knee to the groin, the attacker will have much harder time resisting. The grip on the wrist seems weak, but trust me I've tried it. I'd have friend try to yank his hand out or react when he saw I was up to something, and I'd always end up with the gun. The arm is trapped near the wrist, and so long as you don't pass the elbow, he can't retarget.

I admit my technique is lacking in terms of transition from attack to grab with the same hand. I sometimes make the attack too short and thus weaken it. This said, I still believe a punch to the face is enough to stun him long enough to knee him in the nuts, which should keep him occupied long enough to disarm him.

I was referring to the position of your grip. If I can recall correctly, you lifted your hand up and grabbed, palm/fingertips away from you, which looked as though he could pull out of your grip easier. Hands-down "hold-ups" are difficult though, so you still got my props for pulling it off.

You're right, that does seem awkward, but given the position you're in, it's the quickest movement possible that both gets you out of the line of fire and gives you control over the weapon. And the grip is pretty solid from my experience.

Thanks for your support guys. I've already sent Bob three more techniques which should be posted when he gets around to it.

 

[Mark L]

Loki,
I looked at the video again, and while I still contend that the wrist isn't controlled, it looks like you do have the ability to prevent retargetting. I think we're on the same page about the strikes, demoing on a freind doesn''t convey what would happen if executed with intent. It looks to me like you're attacking the shoulder, side of theneck/head, groin, then spine before the disarm. My point was that seems a lot in practice, that's what you meant by lengthening, right?

Good stuff ...

 

[Loki]

Yeah, it might have been a bit much. The strikes were: punch to the face, knee to the groin X 2, elbow to the neck, kick to the head. It could have been punch, knee, disarm.

Give the lock with the bicep/forearm a try. Ask a friend to try to pull away. He'll probably get out eventually, though odds are against him for at least the first attempt. Then evaluate what would happen if right after the lock he took a punch to the face.

I myself will try the lock again, just to be sure.

 

[Mark L]

I do have a technique with the same type of trap, although it is not specifically against an opponent with a weapon. Additionally, the trap is such that the I have the attacking arm across my chest, so I can go against the elbow. Picture rotating your body clockwise while trapping a right cross with your right arm and driving your left forearm against the offenders tricep, the technique quickly follows with the left leg kicking out at the Achilles while the left hand pulls the shoulder back, then stomp stomp stomp. It works well, I'll slow it down next time and ask the bad guy to try escaping and see what happens.

 

[Loki]

I do have a technique with the same type of trap, although it is not specifically against an opponent with a weapon. Additionally, the trap is such that the I have the attacking arm across my chest, so I can go against the elbow. Picture rotating your body clockwise while trapping a right cross with your right arm and driving your left forearm against the offenders tricep, the technique quickly follows with the left leg kicking out at the Achilles while the left hand pulls the shoulder back, then stomp stomp stomp. It works well, I'll slow it down next time and ask the bad guy to try escaping and see what happens.

I'd have to see it to get a better understanding of how it works.

I tried the trap again, worked fine. The attacker can get loose eventually, but not before being punched, by which point escaping becomes harder.