Lethal Force

[MJS]

This is an incident that happened here in CT recently.

Now, as always with any story, we can only go on what the paper tells us, unless of course we were actually there or privy to first hand knowledge of what went down.

Now, it seems that anytime there is a shooting, people ask why the officer had to shoot to kill. Why couldn't they shoot the person in the arm or leg? AFAIK, when an LEO is faced with deadly force, center mass is the target, not the arm or leg.

So, my question is: Is what happened standard operating procedure, for an incident like this? Are less lethal options, ie: Taser, OC, etc., taken into consideration or is deadly force met with the same?

 

[Drac]

This is an incident that happened here in CT recently.

Now, as always with any story, we can only go on what the paper tells us, unless of course we were actually there or privy to first hand knowledge of what went down.

Now, it seems that anytime there is a shooting, people ask why the officer had to shoot to kill. Why couldn't they shoot the person in the arm or leg? AFAIK, when an LEO is faced with deadly force, center mass is the target, not the arm or leg.

You are correct..The State recently rewrote the gun qulifactions and made shots outside of the center mass not count...Beside aiming for an arm or leg when you are pumped up on adreneline could casue you to miss your target altogether and hit a spectator

Are less lethal options, ie: Taser, OC, etc., taken into consideration or is deadly force met with the same?

Yes..That's IF your department has issued them..OC does not work 90% of the time and sometimes only serves to make the suspect angrier...

 

[punisher73]

Now, it seems that anytime there is a shooting, people ask why the officer had to shoot to kill. Why couldn't they shoot the person in the arm or leg? AFAIK, when an LEO is faced with deadly force, center mass is the target, not the arm or leg.

So, my question is: Is what happened standard operating procedure, for an incident like this? Are less lethal options, ie: Taser, OC, etc., taken into consideration or is deadly force met with the same?

You can consider them, but if you are going to be put at risk you go with the justifiable option that leaves you the most safe. If the subject had a knife most LEO's are taught the 21ft. rule, which basically states that an armed subject can cover the distance between you and him in less time that you can draw your gun and fire. The range of a taser is 25 ft. So you are putting yourself at risk by attempting to close the distance to employ the taser, if you were to try and use OC you are going to be even closer.

It doesn't state what type of sexual assault, but knowing ahead of time that the suspect has commited two violent felonies and has also ran into another car and kept going, will also play into the force considerations. Then when he pulls a knife and refuses to drop it, you are probably not going to attempt a less than lethal response that is going to put you in harm's way knowing his violent history.

When I went through my Taser training, they emphasized over and over that the taser was NOT a replacement for lethal force situations. You could in certain circumstances where the person was isolated enough that you had officers in place that had cover/concealment with their firearms drawn on the subject, and you had an officer that could safely approach using cover/concealment to get close enough to deploy the taser.

In a perfect world, it would be great to be able to utilize a taser to immobilize a subject so you didn't have to resort to lethal force, but unfortunately the technology is quite here (Taser has a new shotgun round that is wireless that extends the range A LOT farther).

 

[jks9199]

OC works best on cops... and is least effective on violent suspects...

With that out of the way -- yes, this is standard.

You don't confront someone presenting a lethal threat with less-lethal force. It's that simple. A knife is a lethal threat, especially in the hands of suspect who has shown violent tendencies. There are rare circumstances involving lots of cops when you might pull it off (with someone ready to provide lethal force if less-lethal options fail) -- but generally, we meet force with at least equal force.

Officers learn to shoot to the center of the available mass; it's more like to hit the target, and -- more importantly -- more likely to stop the threat quickly and effectively. Yeah -- that often means stopped dead. Don't play with deadly weapons around cops if you don't want to end up dead.

 

[MJS]

You are correct..The State recently rewrote the gun qulifactions and made shots outside of the center mass not count...Beside aiming for an arm or leg when you are pumped up on adreneline could casue you to miss your target altogether and hit a spectator

Thanks for commenting Drac! This is what I figured. Additionally, it seems to me, that its hard enough to hit a target that may be moving, let alone something smaller than the chest.

Yes..That's IF your department has issued them..OC does not work 90% of the time and sometimes only serves to make the suspect angrier...

At the dept. where I dispatch for, these less lethal tools are available, however, its, AFAIK, not required for every cop to carry one. On a given shift, there may be 2-3 that carry a Taser.

 

[MJS]

You can consider them, but if you are going to be put at risk you go with the justifiable option that leaves you the most safe. If the subject had a knife most LEO's are taught the 21ft. rule, which basically states that an armed subject can cover the distance between you and him in less time that you can draw your gun and fire. The range of a taser is 25 ft. So you are putting yourself at risk by attempting to close the distance to employ the taser, if you were to try and use OC you are going to be even closer.

It doesn't state what type of sexual assault, but knowing ahead of time that the suspect has commited two violent felonies and has also ran into another car and kept going, will also play into the force considerations. Then when he pulls a knife and refuses to drop it, you are probably not going to attempt a less than lethal response that is going to put you in harm's way knowing his violent history.

When I went through my Taser training, they emphasized over and over that the taser was NOT a replacement for lethal force situations. You could in certain circumstances where the person was isolated enough that you had officers in place that had cover/concealment with their firearms drawn on the subject, and you had an officer that could safely approach using cover/concealment to get close enough to deploy the taser.

In a perfect world, it would be great to be able to utilize a taser to immobilize a subject so you didn't have to resort to lethal force, but unfortunately the technology is quite here (Taser has a new shotgun round that is wireless that extends the range A LOT farther).

Thank you for commenting as well. To focus on the first paragraph...the Surviving Edged Weapons video comes to mind. Its really amazing how quick the distance can be closed.

IMHO, the majority of people that are saying shoot the arm, leg, etc., have no idea what the job entails, have never walked in the shoes of a LEO, and are just overall pretty much clueless when it comes to issues like this.

 

[MJS]

OC works best on cops... and is least effective on violent suspects...

With that out of the way -- yes, this is standard.

You don't confront someone presenting a lethal threat with less-lethal force. It's that simple. A knife is a lethal threat, especially in the hands of suspect who has shown violent tendencies. There are rare circumstances involving lots of cops when you might pull it off (with someone ready to provide lethal force if less-lethal options fail) -- but generally, we meet force with at least equal force.

Officers learn to shoot to the center of the available mass; it's more like to hit the target, and -- more importantly -- more likely to stop the threat quickly and effectively. Yeah -- that often means stopped dead. Don't play with deadly weapons around cops if you don't want to end up dead.

Agreed 100%

 

[Drac]

OC works best on cops... and is least effective on violent suspects..

Yep..A fellow officer and his partner were struggleing with a large suspect..He decided to use his OC..He gave the code word to his partner and pulled the canister from his belt and pointed it in the direction of the suspect and sprayed HIMSELF full in the face..

 

[MJS]

Yep..A fellow officer and his partner were struggleing with a large suspect..He decided to use his OC..He gave the code word to his partner and pulled the canister from his belt and pointed it in the direction of the suspect and sprayed HIMSELF full in the face..

Well...that sucks!! I suppose thats one of the downfalls of that stuff...has the potential to not only effect the person its intended for, but anyone in the area as well.