Learning, how we gain knowledge in training and teaching

[Millennial Martial Artist]

Okay, I have a thread for those of you whom teach martial arts as well. As I started teaching martial arts, I realized that I was very nervous about being in front of others. All of a sudden, what I said became the habits of my students. However, as I was teaching, I started realizing how much more I was learning. I started having to put my applications into words, and be able to explain them in a sense that my students could understand. However, by doing that, I was gaining a better understanding of the application of moves and techniques I was trying to teach. I started seeing new ways to apply moves, and different scenarios that actually seemed effective. My instructor gave me his thesis to read through and edit, which you can see here:Knowledge, One of the Necessary Tools of a Leader: A Mastership Thesis by Master Travis Dillow. Overall, I think in my position, once I started teaching, I actually started learning more than in the 3 years that I was not acting as an instructor. For those of you teachers out there, or those who started trying to show your friends your style, how did your understanding of your martial arts or material deepen when you started teaching someone else?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Okay, I have a thread for those of you whom teach martial arts as well. As I started teaching martial arts, I realized that I was very nervous about being in front of others. All of a sudden, what I said became the habits of my students. However, as I was teaching, I started realizing how much more I was learning. I started having to put my applications into words, and be able to explain them in a sense that my students could understand. However, by doing that, I was gaining a better understanding of the application of moves and techniques I was trying to teach. I started seeing new ways to apply moves, and different scenarios that actually seemed effective. My instructor gave me his thesis to read through and edit, which you can see here:Knowledge, One of the Necessary Tools of a Leader: A Mastership Thesis by Master Travis Dillow. Overall, I think in my position, once I started teaching, I actually started learning more than in the 3 years that I was not acting as an instructor. For those of you teachers out there, or those who started trying to show your friends your style, how did your understanding of your martial arts or material deepen when you started teaching someone else?

Here is how my learning deepened.

1. I actually tried to use the techniques that I was training. I think this is more important than teaching and should come before teaching. Unless the school only does forms.
2. I gain tons of knowledge through #1 and I had to spend time understanding what was going on and why some things worked and why some things didn't work. Analysis is the second most important thing because it will help you understand variations and practical use of techniques that you specifically weren't taught but understood because you did #1 and #2
3. What is the best way to communicate what took you #1 and #2 to understand to someone who hasn't been through #1 and #2. How can I explain it to a student. Do they need to know all of the information or part of the information. Some things will confuse a student, which is why many teachers just flat out say "Do it exactly like this." It's faster for a student to learn how to do the technique without really understanding it. #1 and #2 is the context in which techniques can be done.
4. Now to your question: Teaching required me to have #1, #2, and #3 in order to put things in context and to show realistic application demonstration of how the technique will work. For example, when I teach technique application, I only use "modern" styles of attacking to explain it. The chances that an everyday person gives you a hammer fist to the top of your head are very slim. So I would need to change the martial art hammer fist into a modern day type of attack that an everyday type person would do to the top of the head. For example, women are more likely to get those types of attacks than men, so that's the context in which I explain the technique. I rarely do application demonstrations that show a Jow Ga technique vs a Jow Ga technique. What are the odds that I would get into a street fight with a person that does Jow Ga? Even in sparring, a student is most likely to use the general kicks and punches until they learn to trust the Jow Ga techniques and make an effort to fight with those techniques. With teaching I don't have the luxury of just having a theory. I have to be certain as much as possible which requires me to dig deeper in techniques more than I would if I was just a student or someone who can use kung fu.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

While I don't teach Martial Arts, I do teach Swimming so can provide a little insight there. The biggest issues I've had is in trying to explain to my students things which come completely naturally to me. For example, I learnt to swim from the age of 3, and can't even remember having to learn how to stand up from a floating position in the water. It's something I've always done. However, other people find this very hard and when I teach them how to do it, I have to think carefully about each separate movement and break it down in an easily understandable manner.

So instead of just saying "stand up" to my students, I have to say "lift your head, look at your toes, then bend your knees and place your feet on the ground". I'm sure when it comes down to things like teaching the various kicks, they require the teacher to break down the skill just as much. If you are wondering how hard this is, try and teach someone how to stand up:

1. get your partner to lie down on their back on the floor
2. instruct your partner what to do in order to stand up
3. the student must obey your instructions implicitly, and you can't just say "stand up"
4. the teacher isn't allowed to use any hand gestures or demonstrate what to do. verbal instruction only

It sounds silly but it really makes you think about what your body is doing, and how to then effectively communicate that to the student.

 

[marques]

I felt very much the same.
Another advantage of teaching is we get motivated to master even what we don't like or what doesn't suit our style or body type. If there is no other reason, at least we want to know everything to better serve our students.

 

[thanson02]

Okay, I have a thread for those of you whom teach martial arts as well. As I started teaching martial arts, I realized that I was very nervous about being in front of others. All of a sudden, what I said became the habits of my students. However, as I was teaching, I started realizing how much more I was learning. I started having to put my applications into words, and be able to explain them in a sense that my students could understand. However, by doing that, I was gaining a better understanding of the application of moves and techniques I was trying to teach. I started seeing new ways to apply moves, and different scenarios that actually seemed effective. My instructor gave me his thesis to read through and edit, which you can see here:Knowledge, One of the Necessary Tools of a Leader: A Mastership Thesis by Master Travis Dillow. Overall, I think in my position, once I started teaching, I actually started learning more than in the 3 years that I was not acting as an instructor. For those of you teachers out there, or those who started trying to show your friends your style, how did your understanding of your martial arts or material deepen when you started teaching someone else?

It deepened quite a bit for me. As a student, I just did what my Instructors told me. It was working for them, so obviously it should work for me was my attitude at that time. If something they showed me didn't work, then I would break it down and analyze it until it made sense in my head. The process ended up being about 50-50.

When I started teaching, I had to explain why stuff worked, which some if it I understood better than others, usually the stuff I ended up analyzing before I taught was the stuff that was easier to explain. I also realized that my way of approaching training was not the same as others. Perhaps I just ended up around a lot of people who just over thought things too much, but I would explain what I was doing and show it to people so they could see how it worked and a lot of times I felt like I was talking to brick walls. They honestly just did not understand what I was talking about. I got better as time went on and so did my students.

I will say this though. What really hammered out my personal understanding of our application programs at least, was developing lesson plans to make sure that the students were getting all the information they need so they could succeed as well. When you start organizing the information, giving context in application, the gaps and holes in your understanding become very blatant. Wanting to dive into get a deeper understanding of what you're doing also becomes much stronger, at least it was for me. I can't give much insight beyond this point because I'm still in the middle of this process.

It sounds like to me though that you're on the right path. Keep up the good work. I'm sure many of us would love to hear how you keep progressing towards mastery. [emoji4]

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[Buka]

I have a lot of thoughts on teaching. Here's a few of them...

We are all seduced by that first Martial teaching experience. Being part of a rank and file system, connected by costume and culture, differentiated by colored accoutrements designating rank and experience, there we are, right up front, bowing them in, teaching them Martial Arts. Suddenly, one feels not only relevant, but pretty cool. Don't let it go to your head.

I would imagine every instructors teaching style will change over the course of time as their knowledge and experience deepen. Let's hope so anyway. And everyone has a slightly different way of teaching, (a personal style if you will)

I'm generalizing here, so bear with me and don't take it as personal, it's not directed to anyone, anywhere. I tend to think of some younger instructors as "counters". They show/explain a technique, then count out the cadence for the students to perform said technique. Once they have a few more years experience under their belt, they turn into "talkers", over explaining every damn thing. And keep in mind....the more you are talking the more a whole lot of your students in class are thinking "shut up and let's go."

Sometimes, some develop into the "Robocop" guy. That's an instructor that molds all his students into synchronized robots, all moving exactly the same, all fighting exactly the same, all thinking exactly the same.

And some people are just natural born teachers.

As an instructor, never be hesitant to answer "I don't know, or I'm not sure" Then go find the answer. The more your students know you are both honest, and know yourself, the more they'll trust and develop into good Martial Artists

My wife is as knowledgeable a martial Artist as I know. But can't teach for squat. She is an analytical thinker and perfectionist trapped within a strong Type A personality. She's a fairly good drill instructor, but a terrible teacher. Even I would have quit the Arts had she been my teacher.

Your job as an instructor isn't just to teach movement, your Art, or how to fight, it is to inspire. Not all of your students are going to love the arts as much as you do, not all of them are going to train their whole life like you are...or think you are. You have to help them all you can in the time you have - which you don't know how long that is going in. Don't be a drone, don't be boring, let your love and excitement for the Arts shine through. They'll pick up on it, most of them, anyway.

Your job is to teach.....but also to teach your students the difference between what they are now and what they can be. Then take them there. Push them. I believe any instructor that doesn't push his students both physically and mentally is doing them a disservice

What I teach my beginners is fairly simple." Keep your hands up, knees bent, and chin down at all times. Everything else we'll work on as we go."

And, as it applies to this thread, I teach them - "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Keep your head up. Look before you turn. Keep your hands up. Don't retreat in a straight line. Balance is the key, get your stance right. Breathe before you pass out.

Teaching the kids does wonders for my own karate. About the only drawback is I tend to do my kata slowly even when I am not demonstrating. But I'm kind of slow anyway.

 

[Millennial Martial Artist]

It deepened quite a bit for me. As a student, I just did what my Instructors told me. It was working for them, so obviously it should work for me was my attitude at that time. If something they showed me didn't work, then I would break it down and analyze it until it made sense in my head. The process ended up being about 50-50.

When I started teaching, I had to explain why stuff worked, which some if it I understood better than others, usually the stuff I ended up analyzing before I taught was the stuff that was easier to explain. I also realized that my way of approaching training was not the same as others. Perhaps I just ended up around a lot of people who just over thought things too much, but I would explain what I was doing and show it to people so they could see how it worked and a lot of times I felt like I was talking to brick walls. They honestly just did not understand what I was talking about. I got better as time went on and so did my students.

I will say this though. What really hammered out my personal understanding of our application programs at least, was developing lesson plans to make sure that the students were getting all the information they need so they could succeed as well. When you start organizing the information, giving context in application, the gaps and holes in your understanding become very blatant. Wanting to dive into get a deeper understanding of what you're doing also becomes much stronger, at least it was for me. I can't give much insight beyond this point because I'm still in the middle of this process.

It sounds like to me though that you're on the right path. Keep up the good work. I'm sure many of us would love to hear how you keep progressing towards mastery. [emoji4]

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

Great to read, And thank you for your insight! I'm still a fair 18-20 years away from earning mastery though, but I do love the thought of that! I can think back to when I was like 15, and my first instructor started having me develop our "class plans" and at first it was the most droll thing, and biggest waste of my time I thought. That is, until I hit a point to where I floundered in classes cuz I didn't even have an outline for plans. And I have also found that the more I do teach things, the more I am required to think about application of it. Someone will ask me an off-the-wall question, and it requires me to think on my feet a lot. Very nice to connect with people like you coming from similar positions!

 

[Millennial Martial Artist]

Keep your head up. Look before you turn. Keep your hands up. Don't retreat in a straight line. Balance is the key, get your stance right. Breathe before you pass out.

Teaching the kids does wonders for my own karate. About the only drawback is I tend to do my kata slowly even when I am not demonstrating. But I'm kind of slow anyway.

I'm in the same boat, it definitely helps my overall technique I think! However, my own poomsae/kata/form does suffer some, because I get so hyperfocused on being an instructor, I tend to forget that I am also a student, and I'm a learning how important it is to always be learning! The best instructors learn just as much from their students as their students learn from them!

 

[Millennial Martial Artist]

I have a lot of thoughts on teaching. Here's a few of them...

We are all seduced by that first Martial teaching experience. Being part of a rank and file system, connected by costume and culture, differentiated by colored accoutrements designating rank and experience, there we are, right up front, bowing them in, teaching them Martial Arts. Suddenly, one feels not only relevant, but pretty cool. Don't let it go to your head.

I would imagine every instructors teaching style will change over the course of time as their knowledge and experience deepen. Let's hope so anyway. And everyone has a slightly different way of teaching, (a personal style if you will)

I'm generalizing here, so bear with me and don't take it as personal, it's not directed to anyone, anywhere. I tend to think of some younger instructors as "counters". They show/explain a technique, then count out the cadence for the students to perform said technique. Once they have a few more years experience under their belt, they turn into "talkers", over explaining every damn thing. And keep in mind....the more you are talking the more a whole lot of your students in class are thinking "shut up and let's go."

Sometimes, some develop into the "Robocop" guy. That's an instructor that molds all his students into synchronized robots, all moving exactly the same, all fighting exactly the same, all thinking exactly the same.

And some people are just natural born teachers.

As an instructor, never be hesitant to answer "I don't know, or I'm not sure" Then go find the answer. The more your students know you are both honest, and know yourself, the more they'll trust and develop into good Martial Artists

My wife is as knowledgeable a martial Artist as I know. But can't teach for squat. She is an analytical thinker and perfectionist trapped within a strong Type A personality. She's a fairly good drill instructor, but a terrible teacher. Even I would have quit the Arts had she been my teacher.

Your job as an instructor isn't just to teach movement, your Art, or how to fight, it is to inspire. Not all of your students are going to love the arts as much as you do, not all of them are going to train their whole life like you are...or think you are. You have to help them all you can in the time you have - which you don't know how long that is going in. Don't be a drone, don't be boring, let your love and excitement for the Arts shine through. They'll pick up on it, most of them, anyway.

Your job is to teach.....but also to teach your students the difference between what they are now and what they can be. Then take them there. Push them. I believe any instructor that doesn't push his students both physically and mentally is doing them a disservice

What I teach my beginners is fairly simple." Keep your hands up, knees bent, and chin down at all times. Everything else we'll work on as we go."

And, as it applies to this thread, I teach them - "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

To be honest, you are very right! Being 22, I think I am in that "talker" stage as an instructor, and have made huge progress in moving away from that. I got to a point of thinking that I had to explain every detail to make sure I wasn't missing anything, and just like you said, students were ready to get moving (I actually had a couple of students bring up "what does this have to do with class?/Why are we talking about this?" oh my...) Your point on not being afraid to say "I don't know," was a huge game-changer. I gained a lot of respect when I told some of my students (especially the ones older than me training), that I didn't know, but would find out right away. But I word for word, your points are so accurate. A great instructor shouldn't teach movement, they should spark inspiration. I truly believe that the best martial artists find a way to share their passion, and the rest just comes to them. Thank you very much for your reply, it gave me a lot to think about! And even my instructor now is getting me more into the mindset of "keep it simple. Give em what they have to know, the rest will come as we go." mindset. Brilliant thoughts here mate!

 

[Millennial Martial Artist]

While I don't teach Martial Arts, I do teach Swimming so can provide a little insight there. The biggest issues I've had is in trying to explain to my students things which come completely naturally to me. For example, I learnt to swim from the age of 3, and can't even remember having to learn how to stand up from a floating position in the water. It's something I've always done. However, other people find this very hard and when I teach them how to do it, I have to think carefully about each separate movement and break it down in an easily understandable manner.

So instead of just saying "stand up" to my students, I have to say "lift your head, look at your toes, then bend your knees and place your feet on the ground". I'm sure when it comes down to things like teaching the various kicks, they require the teacher to break down the skill just as much. If you are wondering how hard this is, try and teach someone how to stand up:

1. get your partner to lie down on their back on the floor
2. instruct your partner what to do in order to stand up
3. the student must obey your instructions implicitly, and you can't just say "stand up"
4. the teacher isn't allowed to use any hand gestures or demonstrate what to do. verbal instruction only

It sounds silly but it really makes you think about what your body is doing, and how to then effectively communicate that to the student.

I love it! That sounds like a great way to get the understanding of "breaking it down," and if you don't mind, I will be trying this with all of our junior instructors and other training instructors in our next instructor's class! I think this will be fun and give them something fun to try!!

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I love it! That sounds like a great way to get the understanding of "breaking it down," and if you don't mind, I will be trying this with all of our junior instructors and other training instructors in our next instructor's class! I think this will be fun and give them something fun to try!!

Please do, I'd be interested how they get on with it. Glad I could help

 

[JP3]

To paraphrase Bill's statement from another thread, the first step in learning anything is showing up. Showing up leads to exposure, and exposure leads to learning if for no other reason than diffusion. It seeps in.

That being said, people are mimics and parrots. They mimic what they see, and parrot what has been told to them. No problem with that, as long as they are seeing and hearing Good things. Buka's comments above spell out the stages of becoming a teacher for me quite well. I can look back on the/my early TKD days and I almost laughed out loud at "Counter," and "Talker," as I can very easily recall That Guy on the mat, trying to "Do It." I also remember the first time up in front of the class, FACING the class, with everyone bowing to me. It Was heady stuff, Buka, you're exactly right! It was certainly very, very cool. I didn't know at that time that the position of respect at the front comes with a very light feeling of accomplishment, and then, a couple years down the road, as that feeling is becoming so "usual" that it is fading, there was, all along, an almost hidden, yet crushing burden of responsibility. I've been at the front, facing lots of people for quite some time, and I have to admit, I was sort of glad when, first in the Muay Thai gym) I got involved with groups that didn't do that... the separation of teacher and student by such an obvious visual demarcation. He vs. Us. I vs. Them.

In our/my present avocation of instructing judo/Tomiki aikido, I've found that my personal style of instruction meshes with the Tomiki pedagoguey almost effortlessly (definition below, it's not a word typically in useage, though you've most likely heard it before -- we talk about it quite a bit).

Pedagogy: (noun) the method and practice of teaching, especially as an academic subject or theoretical concept. "the relationship between applied linguistics and language -- pedagogy."

(From like Definition.com or something like that. Came right up on google.)

First, I was introduced to the phrase, "Circle Up..." to start class my first day in a Tomiki dojo back in the day. That was different, as anyone who understands that class (Karate, Judo, BJJ, TKD, HKD etc etc etc) starts with "Line up!" Depending on dojo, and the teacher's thoughts on it, everyone gets in a circle facing inwards, sometimes everyone grasps hands with the persons to their left & right, and Rei is called, and class begins. Personally, I'm a fan now of the contact... as people have an unconscious barrier to touching other people, they want their own personal space, etc. Since there is so much touching, blending, atemi (there are strikes, atemi, but most of what I teach anymore aren't sharp, impactful things [though there are obvious openings for those and I DO point them out and they are worked on], the hard-style guys would be wondering exactly what effect they are supposed to have. Any judoka, BJJ person, Chinese wrestling, Sambo or fill in the other style of grappling art form that understands off-balancing would get it in a second. Anyway, I digress.... apologies.

Buka, I think you'd agree with me. A good teacher almost has to go through the stages (i.e. Counter, Talker... philosopher, whatever) in order to become sufficiently rounded to know what is needed, when it is needed. Some things Are suited for the counting method, sure. Some things need to be talked about, sure. I'd offer that the time for counting is at the very beginning of both stages, beginner student AND teacher. Counting is like training wheels, and it gives both people a framework in which to learn, not fall down and skin a knee or bust a head. Talking, and I am specifically meaning talking "at length" on some concept or other, in my opinion, should be done in the dojo, but off of the mat. The mat is a participant in training, and it's not there just to hold people up while they're shooting the breeze. Respect the time on the mat, as for most folks, it is there and only there that you can actually DO the art you're learning. Maximizing the movement-time, therefore getting the reps in, is what the mat is about. Those chairs over there off to the side and front of the school are for discussing things that take more than 20-30 seconds to utter, either question or correction.

My first adult aikido instructor, Ray, worked nights int he hospital. Sometimes, he'd come in to teach after being up for a full day, nd be operating on a pot of coffee and no food. For some reason, sometimes, he'd get excited about something someone had done (or perhaps disgusted would be the right word but he didn't let anyone know that, good guy that he was) and he'd set about eplaining what, how, when the whatever was not done right, and "fix" it, maybe talking for 20 to 45 minutes of class. I asked him about it once, and he really had no idea he'd been talking that long (I asked him off the mat, away from anyone else, btw). Not having a clue, he didn't think it was that long. So, I went and got one of the senior ranks, brought him in, nd asked him "How long did Ray talk about the oshitaioshi off-balance on Monday? He wants to know."

A: "I think it was at least a half-hour." Then I got another one, "Well, I glanced up at the clock a few minutes in... then again when he opened class back up again, and it was 40 minutes later." Ray was stunned. It' was obviously the coffee buzz and lack of sleep, but he should have known better. As Buka said, the lower ranks who literally understood nothing of what he was talking about were standing around, staring glassy-eyed at him, us, the walls... the floor... the door. Not good. I grant you, it was Great information, but completely the wrong time for it.

Give people knowledge in short, easily digestible "bites," if you will. Say short little catch phrases, whatever they are for the style you're involved in teaching. Some of mine are: Stand up straight, natural. You're not at parade rest. Get your weight off your heels. Unbendable arms don't mean locked, locked arms get broken. The body moves as a unit, that's where your power is, it's not in your arms, I don't care if you Do have 25-inch biceps. Move your whole body. Foot and hand timing, land both at the same time (that's not a kicking comment, btw... I can see my old TKD bretheren going "WTF?" and not about the federation, either) Hands are worthless if they are at your sides. Hands in front of you. Stop going backwards, backwards is where the dead people moved.

Say those things, and keep saying those things. Ray used to say, "Keep pouring water on the rock. Sooner or later it'll crack open and the water will get inside." Trying to practice perfectly leads to really good technique, and if a flaw creeps in, I've found that it takes nearly 3 times as long to unlearn the flaw and replace it with the correct method, so you've got to be on the ball with folks. But, you've also got to understand that those same people you are trying to instill perfect technique in aren't perfect, and neither are you. Perfect is the enemy of good enough, and you've got to be able to recognize Good Enough.

I could go on for a long time, but I sense that the readership is sitting around, staring glassy-eyed at the screen, me, the walls... the floor... the door. So, I'll stop.