last will and testament

Discussion in 'Modern Arnis' started by progressivetactics, Oct 2, 2003.

  1. I got about 32 calls in the last 36 hours from Master Carnes (see other posts).
    He has told me that he has obtained (a copy of) the last will and rights of Remy Presas. He is stating the signature of Remy is much different then any he had on his certificates, and because he is the guardian and keeper of the art, he denounces this article.

    Has anyone else heard of this article floating around? What is your make of it?

    I guess, from what he told me on the phone that REmy left the art to Dr. Schea. and had a board of directors like Jeff Delaney and others.

    Just curious if any of you have heard of this article, not particularly if you know about mr carnes...i think we have done that before.

    bb
     
  2. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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  3. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    He probably saw the draft of the will that Mr. Black prepared. The Presas family made the same mistake.


    As I said before there was about 30 of us on this board and in the will that I saw, all of the members had EQUAL power.
    :asian:
     
  4. stickarts

    stickarts Senior Master

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    Just a question. if it were a draft, still, why would there be a bogus looking signature on there?
     
  5. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    Because Kevin's wife signed were Remy's signature would go. This was done so Remy would know were it would go. For those who knew Remy more on the personal side, you should understand.
    :asian:
     
  6. stickarts

    stickarts Senior Master

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    thanks.
     
  7. Tapps

    Tapps Green Belt

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    ANOTHER "Keeper of the art"

    interesting.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Thanks for the feedback. Please don't anyone take offense to anything listed here. I have been very fortunate to have made some friends through Modern Arnis, and enjoy the art very much. The more I learn, the more I enjoy the art. As I become more involved, the more history I hear/learn/read, with a big part coming from Martial Talk (thanks everyone!). I am not trying to discredit any instructor or orginization, nor glorify any one orginization. Just writing what was typed on this document I recieved.

    With Master Carnes giving me stories much different then what I am used to, I can make many of my own assumptions, however; I would like to be informed prior to making them. I'm sure some of my questions on MT come off as ignorant to many of you seasoned veterans of Arnis,please forgive me. Again, I'm only a newbie trying to learn the art.


    I am a little confused by the document, but I haven't had much experience looking at these, so no surpise here! :)
    It is a "certified copy" from August 20, 2003, of Wake County. Why a copy was just made to be forward out, i'm not sure. Also, I think since this is the one on record from August at the county building, it would indicate that this is the 3rd of the 3 wills.

    The second decree of the will states
    I direct that my executor forma legal corporation to promote the art of Modern Arnis. I direct that the mission of this orginization will be to promote, teach, and repserve the art of Modern Arnis, which has been my lifes passion and work. The board will elect a chairman and co-chairman from its ranks at the annual meeting of the board, which will be held immediatly before or after the summer camp which is held yearly in MIchigan, or at another location to be chosen by the members by majority vote.
    The board members will consist of the following individuals: Brian Zawaliniski, charles gauss, Bruce Chiu, Jeff Delaney, Dan Anderson, Terry Wareham, Doug Pierre, Dr. Randy Schea, Al Garza, Timothy Hartman, Dave Hoffman, Larry Rocha, Brett Salafia, Ken Smith, James Ladis, J. RIchard Roy, Fred King, Besar Ancola, Lee Lowery,David Converse, Andrew Filardo, Michael Bates, David Ng, Roaln Rivera, Roland Dantes, Myelino Hofana, Kevin Black, Dr Charles Terry, Dieter Knutel, Garbielle Roloff.

    Additional rules, regulations and by-laws governing the exectuvie board and the orginization as a whole shall be promulgated upon the formation of the corporation.

    The tenth decree states: I nominate Dr Randy Schea, of Huston Texas, and David Hoffman as the co-executors o fmy estate to serve without bond. ..... Then it falls to Yvette Wong, if those 2 are unwilling or unable.

    This document was made on May 14th, 2000. As to the signature, I have no idea the authenticity of it, I wouldn't know a fake from real.

    As I read this, It appears that Remys wish was for Dr Schea and Mr Hoffman to make a corporation, with the group above all being share holders, and from the group a chair and co-chair to be nominated. Has anything like this been attempted? Was there a meeting with all these people to try to orginize? I know some of the people have started thier own orginizations, but from my intial feelings, I would think they would all be willing to help orginize this.

    I am not familiar with many of the peole on the list, are most of them high ranking Arnis players? What has happened to them?

    Again, sorry for the questions, im just trying to play catch up on history from as many sources as I can. I would hate to rely on Master Carnes as my primary source of information, as he is my entertainment. How come he wasnt listed as he is keeper of the art? Is that a legit title? I have seen his tapes from many many years ago, and he is/was a talented guy, Did Remy bestow a Keeper title on him? Did he do that for anyone else?

    bb
     
  9. DoxN4cer

    DoxN4cer Purple Belt

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    Interesting... Where did you come across the document? It sheds some light on the subject of the leadership of Modern Arnis and how it may have faultered, if it is truly authentic. Does it say anything in particular about the duties and powers of the executors, and precisely how the board is to convene?

    Floating somebody elses will around seem sort of dirty to me. Is a document like that considered public information? Perhaps some of the attorneys on the forum can comment on that.

    Tim Kashino
     
  10. I apologize if it is upseting or troubling, and I certainly don't want to cause grief or ill will. I'm sure we can have this post erased immediatly, if it is a problem. NO DISRESPECT INTENDED TO ANYONE.

    This document was sent to me by Master Carnes in California. He said he had a right to this, as he is the "keeper of the art", he said.

    There is not leadership guidelines other then what i listed.
    I admit, i felt a bit weird seeing document as well, but thought the Arnis part had some material worth discussing. The family and estate issues I would not list in public forum.

    bb
     
  11. Cruentus

    Cruentus Grandmaster

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    I am actually going to keep my mouth shut (for a change) for awhile on this one, and let others who were closer to the will post before I state my opinions. Some may not be able to for legal reasons, but others certainly can shed some light on this topic.

    As for Master Carnes; not sure where his title comes from, but I wouldn't rely on him as the sole "keeper of the art." I'll shy away from badmouthing someone who I don't know here, it is just that we ALL are the arts keepers.

    Also, you asked about the credentials of the folks listed. I will say this much, that the folks listed were all around at one time or another, and all played an administrative role whether to a small, or large degree. Some hosted camps, some wrote curiculum, some were Professors Attorney at one time, and some were just around to help when professor needed help with his affairs. THey demonstrated at one time or another the ability to administrate. So, the choice of Board members was a business/adminstrative decision rather then a skill/rank based decision. This is important to understand because from an outside perspective it might appear that these gentlemen listed were somehow "crowned" the next "kings" of Modern Arnis, when it had nothing to do with that. These people were simply designated to run the "corporation".

    I have said more then I planned, so now I'll let others give more insight on the matter before I post my opinions.

    Thank You,

    Paul Janulis
     
  12. Cruentus

    Cruentus Grandmaster

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    At an OP in view of your house...
    It does seem dirty to me, but in Progressive tactics defense, I don't blame him for posting it. I don't think Progressive was "dirty," in this case. If I were in his position, one of a fairly new practitioner in the art, and I came accross this document because it was sent to me by someone who claims to be of importance, I would certainly have a lot of questions myself. I don't blame him for posting the portion he posted, and asking those questions here. Especially considering he only posted what pertained to the art, not the personal matters of his estate.

    But I agree with you that it is sort of dirty to float someones will around if your not the executor, and if it isn't public information. I would blame this on Mr. Carnes, though, or perhaps, who ever let Mr. Carnes have a copy.

    Anyways, it will be interesting to see how this unfolds. I would like to hear what Mr. Hoffman has to say on the matter specifically, because he was not only executor, but he posted that he would devulge details when he could legally. I wonder if he can yet, considering that the "cat is out of the bag" now, so to speak.
     
  13. DoxN4cer

    DoxN4cer Purple Belt

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    Paul... I think you've read my intention incorrectly. I cannot and do not fault (nor should anyone else) Prog. Tactics for posting that information. It was very interesting, and it will be extrememly interesting to see what transpires from here.

    Exactly.


    Tim Kashino
     
  14. bloodwood

    bloodwood Guest

    It is a shame that this is the way we are seeing the Arnis contents of the will for the first time. If these were truly the Professor's wishes they should have been made known soon after his death. Maybe there wouldn't have been so much fragmentation of the art. But it's too late for that now, the lines in the sand have been drawn.

    If I remember correctly the Presas family put out a statement that their father died intestate. I can see why they made that statement as they are not stated in the document as part of the group of directors.
    Looking over this group that is named, I think if you put some of them together in the same room it would not be a pleasant picture.

    Why this document was withheld for so long just adds to the speculation as to what was supposed to happen. As far as posting the document, once the will is probated it is public record. Now whether this was a copy of the probated will or just a copy of one of the three that are out there remains to be seen. The only disrespect I see is to the one who had it and didn't probate it or at least make the part that involved Modern Arnis public.
    This should be interesting to watch as it starts to unfold.

    Bloodwood
     
  15. stickarts

    stickarts Senior Master

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    Modern arnis was never run as a structured organization and i am not sure how it could have become one even if this will was the intent of Prof. In the times i spoke with Prof., his mind seemed to constantly change about how he wanted it to continue but he seldom spoke about a board, but more about who "the successor" would be.
    I know the majority of the people listed in the will.
    Some of the folks listed in the will stepped back from the politics a long time ago, others have very different ideas about what direction the art should go in.
    I don't know how anyone can really know beyond the shadow of a doubt what was "intended" since there is so much confusion to try and sort out. Even people very close to the situation when prof. passed have given me very different pictures of what happened and how it happened.
    Although, I, and i am sure, many others would like to understand it all better, i think each has already determined their own course and thats not likely to change much as far as there being any great strides in unity being made.
    There are plenty of folks that know more about this subject than i do! This is just my take on it from my time with Prof. and the art.
     
  16. Dan Anderson

    Dan Anderson Master of Arts

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    Unfortunately, at this stage of the game, I don't think the will is going to really change anything. It will give some people room to say, "I told you so." and point fingers, though.
    Yours,
    Dan Anderson
     
  17. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    I suspect that this remark is dead-on.
     
  18. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    Well, I do not think it will change my attitude towards those people out there who are teaching and marketing Modern Arnis.

    Yet, the historian inside of me still wants to know.
    :asian:
     
  19. Dan Anderson

    Dan Anderson Master of Arts

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    It is. I do want to clarify one thing and this remark isn't made as a snotball toss off comment. A number of us have stepped forward and have gone on our own in spite of the lack of direction without an immediate will. Tim with WMAA, Kelly with WMAC, Dieter with IMAF, Philippines, Jeff with IMAF, Bram with CSSD/SC as well as myself with MA-80 have all done so. I very highly doubt any of us are going to change the paths we have chosen now. Two things we all have in common are the fact that we are students of the late Remy Presas and we have all have passion and conviction in what we are doing.

    I am definitely with Rich in the historian in me wants to know as well. We'll see.

    Yours,
    Dan Anderson
     
  20. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    Dan,

    Did you mean to say Dieter with the DAV and relations with IMAF Philipines? and Dr. Schea and the MOTTs with the IMAF? As well as Jeff and the other IMAF?

    (* Not a snotball comment, just asking before someone tries to make this something I believe it is not. *)
    :asian:
     

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