Lajust system

[Brian R. VanCise]

Only for your neighborhood rec. league with volunteer parent coaches. We've been the high-level soccer route. The equipment isn't so bad, but the instructional costs are. You're going to run into this in any activity at the higher levels, IMO.

Carl

Oh no doubt about it for elite level athletes, soccer travel leagues, etc. I know all about that trust me. However, where do those elite level athletes come from if not from the neighborhood recreation leagues, etc. You see in order to have a sport that has the highest level you also have to have multiple layers of lower level leagues that are user friendly and cost efficient so that you actually have a ground based movement. Look at American soccer for instance and how many years it has taken to become pretty good. We did not have a great movement and the superior athletes went to football, basketball, etc. in High School. It is a little better now but definitely not on the same level as Europe and the rest of the world. Having anyone who wants to compete have to by the lajsut system is ridiculous and really makes you wonder how much of a kickback they are getting. Corruption at its finest!

 

[Archtkd]

Bottom line is, if you want to play the game at a world class level, you gotta be willing to write a world class check.

Anybody that thinks for a moment that Michelle Kwan's parents spent $30 bucks on a pair of ice skates or Mary Lou Retton's parents spent $10 on a leotard and otherwise they had no expenses is seriously kidding themselves. Sticking with the Michelle Kwan angle I seem to recall reading that her parents once had 3 mortgages on their house and eventually ended up moving in with a brother or uncle or something so that they could fund her $100,000+ per year skating career.

Probably showing my age with those examples, but I can pretty much promise you that the parent of just about every Olympian in the past 30 years has spent 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars each year on costs associated with their kids sport. This doesn't mean that TKD needs to succumb to that level of insanity, but it really seems quite inevitable.

I am sure that there are a lot of skaters and gymnasts out there that are better than Michelle and Mary Lou were in their prime, but they will never get their shot because their parents can't afford the cost it will take to get them to that level of recognition.

This is why my people from Kenya stick to long distance running. If they can't afford the mucho dollar shoes they can do without them and still win at any major meet. Jokes aside, though, how are Taekwondoists from developing countries expected to ever afford the Unjust system?

 

[LaJust]

Daniel it is $595.00 and you need to have two of them plus the socks is around $40.00 per pair. It is alot when you consider that the normal cast is around $75.00 and you only need one. Every time somebodys grows they need a new one.

The cost of the LaJust Electronic Hogu in the USA is between $479-$499 depending on size and the better news is the new version being produced now (version 8) has reversable colors so it can be used for either Blue or Red so you do not need to have both! The version 8 Hogu will also eliminate the "wet punches" cheat and is even more durable than the current version (we test it daily with baseball bats which is a great stress reliever too!).

By the way, everyone at LaJust Sports America is a passionate supporter or practitioner of Taekwondo with our children in the sport too so we live and breath how the products work every week in our personal lives so we really do end up taking the job home with us!

 

[Archtkd]

The cost of the LaJust Electronic Hogu in the USA is between $479-$499 depending on size and the better news is the new version being produced now (version 8) has reversable colors so it can be used for either Blue or Red so you do not need to have both! The version 8 Hogu will also eliminate the "wet punches" cheat and is even more durable than the current version (we test it daily with baseball bats which is a great stress reliever too!).

By the way, everyone at LaJust Sports America is a passionate supporter or practitioner of Taekwondo with our children in the sport too so we live and breath how the products work every week in our personal lives so we really do end up taking the job home with us!

Whether you like the LaJust system or not. this is is a good effort of fair clarification. At least the company is paying attention to what customers and potential customers at MT and its fan base are saying.

 

[terryl965]

The cost of the LaJust Electronic Hogu in the USA is between $479-$499 depending on size and the better news is the new version being produced now (version 8) has reversable colors so it can be used for either Blue or Red so you do not need to have both! The version 8 Hogu will also eliminate the "wet punches" cheat and is even more durable than the current version (we test it daily with baseball bats which is a great stress reliever too!).

By the way, everyone at LaJust Sports America is a passionate supporter or practitioner of Taekwondo with our children in the sport too so we live and breath how the products work every week in our personal lives so we really do end up taking the job home with us!

Sorry $499 is so much better than $595, you see I am glad you are making progress and everything. So tell me this are they going to use the new version at National in Florida? If so can you throw the proper kick and have it scored? right now it needs to be a angle roundhouse and not the typical chambering type? I will wait and see your reply.....

 

[mango.man]

Hello LaJust Rep,

Can we please get socks that secure with Velcro so that zippers do not constantly break causing me to fork over another $45 time after time?

Oh and if there are prizes for making such excellent suggestions as the one above, please contact me via private message for where to send my complementary LaJust e-hogu set.

Oh here is another suggestion: Add some type of foam padding to the inside of the instep portion of the sock so that I do not have to pad my kid's foot and then try to get the sock on over the padding. If the padding is included in the sock, like the socks we all had to buy a couple of years ago that were only useful for 1 year before the mandatory socks were banned, than there is no need for any other padding. If possible, the padding should somehow be removable so that in the events where instep padding is mandatory, such as USAT events, we can put it in, but at WTF events where it is optional, we can take it out if we are more comfortable fighting without it like my kids is.

 

[Gorilla]

The cost of the LaJust Electronic Hogu in the USA is between $479-$499 depending on size and the better news is the new version being produced now (version 8) has reversable colors so it can be used for either Blue or Red so you do not need to have both! The version 8 Hogu will also eliminate the "wet punches" cheat and is even more durable than the current version (we test it daily with baseball bats which is a great stress reliever too!).

By the way, everyone at LaJust Sports America is a passionate supporter or practitioner of Taekwondo with our children in the sport too so we live and breath how the products work every week in our personal lives so we really do end up taking the job home with us!

I am very impressed that you came on this BBS. The Lajust system has taken a beating on this board.

My major complaint is that it is to thick and bulky. Takes the shock out of the game. The body shots don't hurt nearly as much as with other hogus and those who kick hard to the body don't get the impact. No shots to the backside is another issue! You have to change your game to fit the Hogu. The Hogu should have been designed to fit the game. The backside is a legal scoring area(why no sensors).

The DAEDO TRUE SCORE System seems to be a better system. We will use it in Spain in a few weeks. I would like to know your thoughts around what differentiates your product from the other EBP systems out there?

It is good to know that you are concerned about the sport and are involved.

Thanks for posting on the Board!

 

[taekwondodo]

The cost of the LaJust Electronic Hogu in the USA is between $479-$499 depending on size and the better news is the new version being produced now (version 8) has reversable colors so it can be used for either Blue or Red so you do not need to have both! The version 8 Hogu will also eliminate the "wet punches" cheat and is even more durable than the current version (we test it daily with baseball bats which is a great stress reliever too!).

By the way, everyone at LaJust Sports America is a passionate supporter or practitioner of Taekwondo with our children in the sport too so we live and breath how the products work every week in our personal lives so we really do end up taking the job home with us!

Hey you guys are brave posting here, but welcome to the board anyway.

I was wondering, which comes first at 2010 US OPEN.. my suggestion on the neutral hogu with the reversible blue/red and the main body is neutral in color OR this was in the works for a long time?

Here are few ideas on socks issue:

1. Another idea is that you can have electronic sensor USING the athletes own insteps WITHOUT using the socks.

2. If WTF INSIST on having the socks, make it adjustable..how?
now that idea is under construction. I am mocking up few and testing it with other kids using their insteps.

My husband, who is an EE and knows about programing said to incorporate a 30 seconds warning system that have a YELLOW warning light and turn RED when the time is up. This way, the center Ref can be able to see how much time they have left to manage the rings. He said it is not too hard program it into the system.

 

[LaJust]

Can we please get socks that secure with Velcro so that zippers do not constantly break causing me to fork over another $45 time after time?

Hi, I'm sorry if you have paid for multiple socks. If the zipper breaks AT ANY TIME we will replace them at no charge (even after the normal 3 month warranty they have) as that was a manufacturing defect that has since been corrected. I've overnighted replacement socks to people when they have competitions coming up. Just call or email us and we take care of it immediately at no cost to you.

Oh here is another suggestion: Add some type of foam padding to the inside of the instep portion of the sock so that I do not have to pad my kid's foot and then try to get the sock on over the padding. If the padding is included in the sock, like the socks we all had to buy a couple of years ago that were only useful for 1 year before the mandatory socks were banned, than there is no need for any other padding. If possible, the padding should somehow be removable so that in the events where instep padding is mandatory, such as USAT events, we can put it in, but at WTF events where it is optional, we can take it out if we are more comfortable fighting without it like my kids is.

I hear you! We have been working with the USAT, WTF and the production facilities in Korea to come up with a solution for this. I know it sounds like it should be simple but when you are dealing with the WTF and certification requirements of every part of our equipment and because it is only an issue in the USA it has been far more complex to get a new design made and approved than we ever expected. The good news is we see the light at the end of the tunnel and expect to have socks with padding for the under 13s once final approval has been given to us. We are still waiting on approval for our head gear and I've no timeframes on that.

 

[LaJust]

I am very impressed that you came on this BBS. The Lajust system has taken a beating on this board.

My major complaint is that it is to thick and bulky. Takes the shock out of the game. The body shots don't hurt nearly as much as with other hogus and those who kick hard to the body don't get the impact. No shots to the backside is another issue! You have to change your game to fit the Hogu. The Hogu should have been designed to fit the game. The backside is a legal scoring area(why no sensors).

The DAEDO TRUE SCORE System seems to be a better system. We will use it in Spain in a few weeks. I would like to know your thoughts around what differentiates your product from the other EBP systems out there?

It is good to know that you are concerned about the sport and are involved.

Thanks for posting on the Board!

I'm wearing my flame retardant underpants :xtrmshock and I love reading the interesting new names various posters have renamed our company name to

In case anyone is genuinely curious, LaJust was started over 20 years ago and "La" is the first name of the daughter of the inventor and "Just" is a shortened version of "Justice" representing the ultimate goal of making a system that reduces or eliminates "injustice" to competitors.

Of course, we know no system is perfect and right now you are only using half the system because our hand and head gear hasn't been approved by the WTF so the judges still have a lot of influence over the final scoring which we know is highly contentious. I'd only ask you hold your final judgements until you see the full (head and body) system being used.

Regarding the size and bulkiness of the equipment and the location of the scoring zones the answer isn't as simple as we'd like. LaJust has to work with the WTF and various subcommittees for approval of every part of our equipment and software and that can take years before you see the final approved product. Sometimes, people on those boards have their own agendas (hard to believe I know...) which influences approval and we have to modify our design to accomodate those viewpoints if we want the equipment approved. The increased padding was added to appease those who wanted more competitor protection especially for the kidney area and the scoring zone for the back was also mandated to get approval and I assume the same groups were likely responsible for the WTF rule change on valid scoring areas too. The people in those positions come and go and so these decisions may change over time as we submit new updates (or our competitors do) and get new judgements given. Technically, there is nothing that stops us making an incredibly thin Hogu and have it go all the way around the back. The biggest thing you can do if you want to see change is petition the WTF

As to our competitors, I don't wish to abuse this forum for advertising or bashing other companies (and I hope they would do the same) but I'm happy to discuss our technology and how it works.

 

[LaJust]

Hey you guys are brave posting here, but welcome to the board anyway.

I was wondering, which comes first at 2010 US OPEN.. my suggestion on the neutral hogu with the reversible blue/red and the main body is neutral in color OR this was in the works for a long time?

Thanks. Long time lurker, first time poster Time will tell if it is bravery or simply foolishness

As you can hopefully appreciate, it can take a long time to get things approved by the WTF and we generally refrain from public discussions on things until we are in the final stages of approval. The change in Electronic Hogu design to be a neutral color was an internal discussion that happened last year along with the first discussions on the need to change the socks for the US.

We expect to have the new (version 8) hogu in the US and Canada in about 8-10 weeks. Another discussion we have had is what we can do for our suporters who have made a commitment by purchasing our Hogus. Of course they will continue to work but we've designed an upgrade kit with the new electronics and new sensors and while we were considering making it available at our cost we have decided that just as we did previously with the upgraded receiver, the upgrade kit will also be available at no charge for existing US and Canada customers who purchased from www.lajustsports.com. Now if only Apple would follow our example and give me iPhone upgrades for free haha... :lfao:

My husband, who is an EE and knows about programing said to incorporate a 30 seconds warning system that have a YELLOW warning light and turn RED when the time is up. This way, the center Ref can be able to see how much time they have left to manage the rings. He said it is not too hard program it into the system.

Can you give me more detail on this suggestion and I'd be happy to send it to the development team in Korea.

 

[terryl965]

La Just let me ask you this can we get your real first name? I know it is small request but I am more at ease with a real name, second which sysytem will be at National in Orlando? Can you ever do anything about a straight forward kick, when will tey be able to be scored, you see now it needs to be like a scape and not a direct line to be scored? Last thing when has the back portion not been a scoring area? I was under the impression the back up to the spine is legal but yet no scensors to score these point, it leave alot of double and triple kicks not scoreable?

Once again thanks for coming on and answering all the question for us.:asian:

 

[Archtkd]

Thanks. Long time lurker, first time poster Time will tell if it is bravery or simply foolishness .

I wouldn't describe this as bravery or foolishness. I think it's good business sense. Very many companies have lost lots of business by failing to engage customers, potential customers and critics in a meaningful discussion -- in social media channels such as MT.

To follow up on another poster's query about the foot scoring. Shouldn't the EBP system be designed in way that allows for any part of the foot to score? that would include ball and blade of foot, which some people always assume cannot score in a WTF match. If I am wrong I stand to be corrected. Current WTF rules, in Article 11 - 2 say: "Delivering techniques using any part of the foot below the ankle bone," are valid techniques. In Article 12-2: The rules are: "Points shall be awarded when permitted techniques are delivered accurately and powerfully to the legal scoring area."

On another note, is the company trying to find ways make the EBP more affordable in developing countries. $495 is still a difficult sum in places like my homeland Kenya, where the annual GDP per capita is about $800. Yes, the government there does get involved in funding sports at the national team level, but lower down the ranks it's extremely difficult for individuals and even clubs find money to purchase basic equipment, leave alone EBPs.

 

[taekwondodo]

As you can hopefully appreciate, it can take a long time to get things approved by the WTF and we generally refrain from public discussions on things until we are in the final stages of approval. The change in Electronic Hogu design to be a neutral color was an internal discussion that happened last year along with the first discussions on the need to change the socks for the US.

We expect to have the new (version 8) hogu in the US and Canada in about 8-10 weeks. Another discussion we have had is what we can do for our suporters who have made a commitment by purchasing our Hogus. Of course they will continue to work but we've designed an upgrade kit with the new electronics and new sensors and while we were considering making it available at our cost we have decided that just as we did previously with the upgraded receiver, the upgrade kit will also be available at no charge for existing US and Canada customers who purchased from www.lajustsports.com. Now if only Apple would follow our example and give me iPhone upgrades for free haha... :lfao:



Can you give me more detail on this suggestion and I'd be happy to send it to the development team in Korea.

I am looking forward to "upgrade" my set. It is a good thing LaJust is doing because my system is only few weeks old.

As for enhancing the system. WTF have to understand that US and Canada is two totally different markets from the overseas market. Different culture with different wants and needs. Therefore, what ever is and well over there doesn't really = what is good for US/Canada customers. Some features is good for all but not for others.

Because of the different market demand, there should be a different socks with different features for those market. Feet sizes over seas measured differently than in the US so the socks has to adjust accordingly.

It is part of marketing and mfg process before products hit the market to that particular area. * I used to design KA small appliances that sells to the Europe and Asia market*


As for the 30 second light warning, my husband volunteered to operate the system in a ring at TX State Champ. and did discussed this with one of LaJust system. The LaJust rep stated that it was a good idea, but WTF has to approve.

Waita minute... WTF is a customer, USTA, Canada..etc is also customers. LaJust is the Manufacturer that produce this products. LaJust comes to WTF with an idea/product "hey..we got a products for you to use in the ring"..WTF involved with the designs..WTF approved the design for the ASIA TKD market.
Who own the products and design? LaJust company.

So with that said, why can't LaJust design a modified product for the Northern America market w/o going thru WTF? The only time we need to have WTF "approval" is when each country participate in the WTF sanctioned event such as US OPEN, World Champ, the Olympic..etc.

But for national events we can use the "modified" products that would fits our needs.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

The cost of the LaJust Electronic Hogu in the USA is between $479-$499 depending on size and the better news is the new version being produced now (version 8) has reversable colors so it can be used for either Blue or Red so you do not need to have both! The version 8 Hogu will also eliminate the "wet punches" cheat and is even more durable than the current version (we test it daily with baseball bats which is a great stress reliever too!).

What is a wet punch? And how is it a cheat? Is there a wet kick? And is that a cheat as well?

And welcome to MT!

Daniel

 

[ATC]

What is a wet punch? And how is it a cheat? Is there a wet kick? And is that a cheat as well?

And welcome to MT!

Daniel

Well from what I have been told. Early on with the LaJust system, some found out that if you wet your glove or even sock then it would score because of the water somehow. I also heard that they used foil to do the same thing. They would wrap foil under there sock and shin to help with scoring. There were a few other tricks as well. Now the judges look for this stuff.

 

[ATC]

This is also for LaJust. What about the issue with cell phones being the casue of some issues? I heard this was the case for a few matches at the the 2010 US Open.

 

[mango.man]

Last thing when has the back portion not been a scoring area? I was under the impression the back up to the spine is legal but yet no scensors to score these point, it leave alot of double and triple kicks not scoreable?

Once again thanks for coming on and answering all the question for us.:asian:

Terry, the last 2 revisions of the rules on wtf.org have described the legal scoring area of the trunk as being the areas covered by red and blue portions of the hogu.

That is foggy at best, but in the end I suppose it means that if the back is covered by red or blue on the hogu, than it is a legal scoring area but if it is not, such as with the lajust hogu, than it is not a legal scoring area.

There is nothing in the rules that I can see that describe the back as being a legal scoring area any longer. The only reference I see that must be covered with a red or blue portion of the hogu is the trunk from the armpit to the pelvis.

 

[terryl965]

You are right mango.man but let me print something for you that is told to all referees even the International ones,

The color area of the trunk protector is a legal attacking area; not the straps. This includes the flanks, but not the spine itself. The entire head, including the neck, is a legal attracking area.(foot techniques only)

When any part of the foot strikes within a permitted area, it is considered a valid technique, and may result in a point if other criteria are meet; the entire foot does not have to make contact.

If the above holds true than why is sensor only on part of the foot because by the rules every inch is scoreable? I know nobody can really answer this question but the system takes away from what is consider a legal area to kick and land kicks with.

 

[mango.man]

I am 100% with you on the sock sensor issue. I think it should cover the entire foot. I am guessing that doing that though, the sensors that would end up on the ball of the foot, would either wear out very quickly or cause a lack of balance / cause players to slip since a fighters weight is almost exclusively on the balls of their feet for the duration of the fight.

Reading directly from the rules on the WTF website, The head is clearly defined as "2) Head: The area above the collar bone" which is pretty clear and leaves no room for interpretation. Front, back, side, top, face etc it's all the head. Where there is room for interpretation is where the rules say that it will be regarded as a point when any part of the foot "touches" the head. because a touch to me means, regardless of power etc if my toe, comes in slight contact with any part of your head, I deserve 3 points. But we all know that does not happen.

The body however is not so clearly defined in the rules. "1) Trunk: Attack by fist and foot techniques on the areas covered by the trunk protector are permitted. However, such attacks shall not be made on the part of the spine." and further defined as "Trunk: As depicted in the following illustration, the area covered by the trunk protector between the armpit and the pelvis is the legal attacking area. Thus, trunk protector should be worn according to the rule on the size of trunk protector for each weight category and the physique of each contestant."

That my friend leaves a huge hole open for interpretation and, in my opinion, is what allows LaJust to get away with hogus that do not wrap around the back.