Krav Maga - worth the $$?

[Qwik]

Hi Everyone, I'm new here...glad to have finally found a forum where people are able to discuss MA in a fashion befitting adults without the "your style sucks NO YOUR STYLE SUCKS" nonsense I've found on most MA boards I've looked at..

Anyway, I've got not much experience in MA, and I've been looking for a style that was simple, clean, effective, no BS, real world scenario based, etc.

I found Krav Maga, and thought it looked perfect. After doing some research, though, I'm really on the fence...I really don't want to get burned by the "McDojo" effect. I've read a lot of posts in a lot of places bashing KM and saying how its just another fad MA, all marketing hype, and then I've read some things that make KM sound pretty good...so I'm having trouble deciding...

I know another thing that makes a big difference is the individual school where it's taught...I heard the one in NY is pretty good.
Does anyone know whether or not the school in SF is any good? (http://www.kravmaga-sf.com)

Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated...

 

[HKphooey]

First off, welcome to MT.

Second, you should be able to get some great feedback on possible schools. In any style, you can get the "MCDojo" effect.

Many people will discount what they do not fully understand and/or take the time to study. You can find fault/holes in any style.

Some of the belittling may come from the fear of losing students because KM is a style that weeds out the forms, belts and filler, and teaches the student to defend themselves in a short period of time.

I always recommend people figure out what they want from their training and then locate a style/school that fulfills those needs.

 

[seal]

Hi Everyone, I'm new here...glad to have finally found a forum where people are able to discuss MA in a fashion befitting adults without the "your style sucks NO YOUR STYLE SUCKS" nonsense I've found on most MA boards I've looked at..

Anyway, I've got not much experience in MA, and I've been looking for a style that was simple, clean, effective, no BS, real world scenario based, etc.

I found Krav Maga, and thought it looked perfect. After doing some research, though, I'm really on the fence...I really don't want to get burned by the "McDojo" effect. I've read a lot of posts in a lot of places bashing KM and saying how its just another fad MA, all marketing hype, and then I've read some things that make KM sound pretty good...so I'm having trouble deciding...

I know another thing that makes a big difference is the individual school where it's taught...I heard the one in NY is pretty good.
Does anyone know whether or not the school in SF is any good? (http://www.kravmaga-sf.com)

Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated...

I know it doesn't help you, but I don't know anything about the krav school you linked. The one in LA is apparently good (http://kravmaga.com/krav01.html). Where are you located, SF? And which NY school are you speaking of, there are multiple?

 

[Qwik]

I know it doesn't help you, but I don't know anything about the krav school you linked. The one in LA is apparently good (http://kravmaga.com/krav01.html). Where are you located, SF? And which NY school are you speaking of, there are multiple?

I'm located at the far north tip of the city...the nice thing about the school that I posted is that it's easy for me to get to....only about 10/11 blocks away I also heard that the LA school was one of the best...
As for NY, I didn't get the name of a specific school, just that the KM training this person had seen there had been pretty good (not very specific, I know ;p)

 

[evenflow1121]

First off, welcome to MT, I have two friends that practice Krav Maga (Contact Combat), and I train with them from time to time. Krav Maga like any other martial art is not the "ultimate martial art", a lot of how effective a fighter you will be will have to do with your training and your instructor. It is an effective martial art, but then again so is MMA, Kenpo, Kali, ect. If you have a passion for the style or very curious about it, why not give it a shot?

With respect to the whole McDojo deal, some of that is true, but not just for KM for just about any martial art. For example, when the whole grappling fever hit the U.S. a ton of Mc Dojo's were incorporating ineffective grappling techniques, but just to get people into their doors, like wise it is not surprising that a lot of people want to jump on the KM fad and say they teach KM when they do not. I think that what you should really be looking for are the techniques and sparring. The reason that KM gets such a bad rep is because a lot of times you will find that KM training is more of an aerobic work out than anything else, for example you train a lot with pad work, or on how to take out multiple attackers, some times they put music during training. Its quite different than what most people are exposed to, in the martial arts, none the less a good work out, and definately not a Mc Style, but its not for everyone. You may also want to check into Haganah if you are into Israeli Combat.

 

[seal]

The SF Krav school doesn't sound like a mcdojo. If I lived in SF, I'd certainly walk in for a class, just to try it out. It sounds like the proximity to your house is important or of utmost importance which is fine. Give it a shot.

It's interesting you're curious about a krav school ~3000 miles away, but there are a few krav schools in and out of the ny-metro area which are quite commendable. I would prefer to train in isreali martial arts schools (personally, kapap) officially tied to Israel but that's just me.

 

[MJS]

Hi Everyone, I'm new here...glad to have finally found a forum where people are able to discuss MA in a fashion befitting adults without the "your style sucks NO YOUR STYLE SUCKS" nonsense I've found on most MA boards I've looked at..

Anyway, I've got not much experience in MA, and I've been looking for a style that was simple, clean, effective, no BS, real world scenario based, etc.

I found Krav Maga, and thought it looked perfect. After doing some research, though, I'm really on the fence...I really don't want to get burned by the "McDojo" effect. I've read a lot of posts in a lot of places bashing KM and saying how its just another fad MA, all marketing hype, and then I've read some things that make KM sound pretty good...so I'm having trouble deciding...

I know another thing that makes a big difference is the individual school where it's taught...I heard the one in NY is pretty good.
Does anyone know whether or not the school in SF is any good? (http://www.kravmaga-sf.com)

Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated...

The school appears to be legit. Its listed on the kravmaga.com site, so I assume its affiliated with Darren Levine. KM has some great material, so IMO, I'd check it out. I'm sure you could take a trial class. Definately take advantage of that, as it'll give you a good idea as to what the classes will be like. Take some time to talk with the instructor(s), students, etc. and get info. about pricing, etc.

Good luck on your search! Let us know what you decide!

Mike

 

[Jonathan Randall]

The school appears to be legit. Its listed on the kravmaga.com site, so I assume its affiliated with Darren Levine. KM has some great material, so IMO, I'd check it out. I'm sure you could take a trial class. Definately take advantage of that, as it'll give you a good idea as to what the classes will be like. Take some time to talk with the instructor(s), students, etc. and get info. about pricing, etc.

Good luck on your search! Let us know what you decide!

Mike

Ditto on that great advice, Mike.

Yes, it's worth the money - if it is the RIGHT school and art for you. Only a visit and trial classes will tell you this. It is, however, a reputable system and organization.

 

[Carol]

Krav Maga tends to be expensive - I've seen it offered for upwards of $200/month. Not all schools are at this price point, but some are. That's not to say the art isn't worth it...if it is worth it to YOU that is what matters.

When you visit the school, ask a lot of questions about what your segments of training are going to be like...ESPECIALLY your first one. Find out how much Martial Arts you will actaully be doing vs. how much conditioning/aerobics you will be doing.

The main sticking point with me in some Krav Maga association schools is how they handle their beginner program. Some schools get you working on self defense straight away in your first segement. Other schools have first segment that is little more than a glorified kickboxing class with a couple hints of stuff to come. The coursework says you will be learning self defense but the class ends up in heavily lopsided cycles that end up looking like....13 minutes of kickboxing and 2 minutes of self defense, repeat four times, hour is up, class is over.

$200/month may be worth it for Krav Maga but it is A LOT to pay for kickboxing, and it is unlikely the tuition is reduced for earlier segments. Make sure you are paying for something with rigorous self defense from the beginning.

 

[seal]

Post the examples where krav is 200/month. It is a poor generalization, to say krav maga tends to be expensive.

 

[Qwik]

hey everyone, thanks for the great replies :]


I've decided I'm definately going to try it out...it is rather expensive which is why I wanted to be sure...$120 a mo.

I'll let you all know how it goes :]


Thanks again for the help!

 

[Qwik]

It's interesting you're curious about a krav school ~3000 miles away, but there are a few krav schools in and out of the ny-metro area which are quite commendable. I would prefer to train in isreali martial arts schools (personally, kapap) officially tied to Israel but that's just me.

Heh, I used to live in NY, that's why ;D

I was thinking about kapap, but I couldn't really find anything in the area...

 

[seal]

Heh, I used to live in NY, that's why ;D

I was thinking about kapap, but I couldn't really find anything in the area...

Oh. I live around the NYC area. I like David Kahn's school of krav because it's affiliated with Israel and, subsequently, their instructors continuously train with the Isreali instructors. Kapap is fantastic. Personally, (and this is my opinion), if I could train with any isreali martial arts instructor in the world, it'd be moni azik (co-founder of krav) (he teaches in Canada) and his best student, Major Avi Nardia. I think Avi is in LA now, but I really don't know -- he might have a school in SF All I know is he informed me he's planning on moving to NY to teach.

 

[Qwik]

Oh. I live around the NYC area. I like David Kahn's school of krav because it's affiliated with Israel and, subsequently, their instructors continuously train with the Isreali instructors. Kapap is fantastic. Personally, (and this is my opinion), if I could train with any isreali martial arts instructor in the world, it'd be moni azik (co-founder of krav) (he teaches in Canada) and his best student, Major Avi Nardia. I think Avi is in LA now, but I really don't know -- he might have a school in SF All I know is he informed me he's planning on moving to NY to teach.

Yeah, I'd loove to train with someone with closer ties to the roots of the art...doesn't seem to be available here though. Then again, there's only so much research you can do on the net. Perhaps someone at kmsf will know of someone.

 

[Qwik]

Krav Maga tends to be expensive - I've seen it offered for upwards of $200/month. Not all schools are at this price point, but some are. That's not to say the art isn't worth it...if it is worth it to YOU that is what matters.

When you visit the school, ask a lot of questions about what your segments of training are going to be like...ESPECIALLY your first one. Find out how much Martial Arts you will actaully be doing vs. how much conditioning/aerobics you will be doing.

The main sticking point with me in some Krav Maga association schools is how they handle their beginner program. Some schools get you working on self defense straight away in your first segement. Other schools have first segment that is little more than a glorified kickboxing class with a couple hints of stuff to come. The coursework says you will be learning self defense but the class ends up in heavily lopsided cycles that end up looking like....13 minutes of kickboxing and 2 minutes of self defense, repeat four times, hour is up, class is over.

$200/month may be worth it for Krav Maga but it is A LOT to pay for kickboxing, and it is unlikely the tuition is reduced for earlier segments. Make sure you are paying for something with rigorous self defense from the beginning.

That's actually really solid advice, thanks. It is quite expensive (another reason I feared mcdojo). I did hear a story about a training exercise they did in one of the advanced classes where they blindfolded the guy, and then had him defend himself against multiple attackers...but that was a "I have a friend whos also interested in krav who was talking to a guy on a bus who has a friend who" kinda deal, so you know how that goes....

 

[Qwik]

The school appears to be legit. Its listed on the kravmaga.com site, so I assume its affiliated with Darren Levine. KM has some great material, so IMO, I'd check it out. I'm sure you could take a trial class. Definately take advantage of that, as it'll give you a good idea as to what the classes will be like. Take some time to talk with the instructor(s), students, etc. and get info. about pricing, etc.

Good luck on your search! Let us know what you decide!

Mike

I dug around on the kravmaga.com site some...I read some posts by someone accusing Darren Levine of the mcdojo phenomenon...and as a photographer/designer, I can say that the photos on their site are very well done and cost quite a bit of money. That said, simply because a style is well marketed does not make it mcdojo. I really will have to decide after the first class.

I'll definately let you know how it goes :]

 

[Swordlady]

Post the examples where krav is 200/month. It is a poor generalization, to say krav maga tends to be expensive.

I don't know about $200/month, but I was also told that Krav Maga *does* tend to get pricey. One of my friends has been training in the LA Krav Maga National Training Center since March. I attended a class with him during my recent trip to LA. Very intense workout. Completely wore me out after just a half-hour (sad, isn't it?) I asked about the pricing afterwards, since I thought about taking it back in Philly. Classes over in LA run about $140/month, and the instructor said that was pretty much the norm in most all Krav Maga schools. Needless to say, that was WAY past my budget for MA training. Not to mention that the Philadelphia Krav Maga school (just 6 blocks away from my house) wasn't open when I returned home from LA. They never responded to my queries about the cost of training and class times.

Edited to add: And it looks like the school I was trying to contact is closed. Oh well...

 

[Haze]

Seems the SF center is a franchised deal out of the LA center.

The Krav Maga Official Training Center San Franicsco is a franchise studio and a member of Krav Maga Worldwide Enterprises, headquartered in Los Angeles since 1999 with more than 200 locations nationwide

Darren Levine is behind it all, I believe. He would not license this SF center if it was not up to his standards.

Nothing new though. MA instructors are certified in KM and then teach this self defense system. This has been going on for years. The special 10 week self defense course. Just longer and more money now.

 

[Carol]

That's actually really solid advice, thanks. It is quite expensive (another reason I feared mcdojo). I did hear a story about a training exercise they did in one of the advanced classes where they blindfolded the guy, and then had him defend himself against multiple attackers...but that was a "I have a friend whos also interested in krav who was talking to a guy on a bus who has a friend who" kinda deal, so you know how that goes....

Oh there is definitely some interesting stuff out there. A buddy of mine in another state is a Judo instructor and is on active duty with the Guard. He has been learning Krav Maga from some Israeli instructors that have retired from Special Ops duty and he loves it. He's the fellow paying about $200 a month. He may have more going on than your average bear and...considering what he does for work...I'd say he has a need for it.

It's not unusual for a good Martial Arts class in LA, SF or Boston to run upwards of $100/month...even in other styles. A Tae Kwon Do or Kenpo class may run the same amount.

It's a fair price for Krav Maga. It's a rotten price for aerobics.

I have an real issue with MA schools that won't teach martial arts for the first three or four months. I wouldn't put up with it in Kenpo, you shouldn't put up with it in KM. You are paying for self defense, not Sweatin' to the Oldies. You deserve to get the training you are promised. Just make sure you know exactly how your segments are going so you know exactly what it is you are paying for and exactly what it is you are supposed to get.

EDIT:
I have personally been in one of the schools associated with Mr. Levine. Very little self defense was taught in the first 3 months. I've heard other schools were much more vigorous. An association membership is NOT enough to guarantee a strong curriculum. ASK LOTS of questions.

Good luck with your training!

 

[MJS]

I dug around on the kravmaga.com site some...I read some posts by someone accusing Darren Levine of the mcdojo phenomenon...and as a photographer/designer, I can say that the photos on their site are very well done and cost quite a bit of money. That said, simply because a style is well marketed does not make it mcdojo. I really will have to decide after the first class.

If its the same thing I'm thinking of, I saw it as well. I think that the mcdojo lable gets put on due to the fact that everywhere you turn, someone is teaching KM. However, the same thing can be said about BJJ. When the UFC and the grappling craze hit, what happened? Every school around jetted to Cali. to learn the latest and greatest. Quite a few years ago, I attended a seminar with Darren and a few other Black Belts. I didn't see anything that sent up the mcdojo flag. As I said, you really need to check out the place and judge for yourself.

I'll definately let you know how it goes :]

Looking forward to it!!:ultracool

Mike