Kosho E Lessons

[Kacey]

BTW, the only name I see posted on this thread thus far is Carol Kaur.

My full name - Karen Cohn - is in my profile.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

seems to me, danjo......you thought there was nothing wrong with video learning, up until the time you went to study under john bishop.
I've been pretty clear with my opinions towards martial arts video courses that will have a student replicate the techniques on a given video and then send them in for grading. I personally think it's a load.

For someone with an advanced learning degree, you seem to have difficulty in accepting the fact that not all martial arts are taught in an a+b=c technique fashion.
from what i gather, Bruce Juchnik isn't going to grade anyone......it's merely a supplement to someone's existing training.

You constantly look for excuses to bash kosho.....all without ever taking the time to hit a class......that's about as close minded as it gets.

 

[Danjo]

BTW, the only name I see posted on this thread thus far is Carol Kaur.

When you click on the user profile, my real name comes right on up there.---Dan Weston

 

[Danjo]

I'm problably going to kick myself for breaking my own rule and getting into this. First of all what changing stories are you talking about danjo?

Oh the various versions of how Juchnik trained in prison. First it was that he actually trained. Then, after tons of law enforcement personel came out and said that it wouldn't happen, it became, "Well they talked and he used hand gestures." etc. in order to convey the marterial needed to grant Grandmaster status to Juchnik.

Second I know the person posting for elessons and it ain't Gary Brewer. You seem to be the one flinging mud and making accusations.

While I am very sorry to falsely accuse anyone of being Gary Brewer, I actually did not. Re-read the post.

Third If someone wants to pay 21 bucks for some exposure to Hanshi Juchnik its pretty cheap compared to the price I'ved paid over the years.

No doubt.

If the moderators want to ban someone it should be you.

I never suggested that someone get banned, merely that they post elsewhere if they are unwilling to identify themselves. People should stand behind their comments.

 

[Danjo]

seems to me, danjo......you thought there was nothing wrong with video learning, up until the time you went to study under john bishop.

Sure I did. I thought it was silly for a long time before training with him. I simply had no other option. Go back and re-read my posts on the subject.

I've been pretty clear with my opinions towards martial arts video courses that will have a student replicate the techniques on a given video and then send them in for grading. I personally think it's a load.

Then we're in agreement.

For someone with an advanced learning degree, you seem to have difficulty in accepting the fact that not all martial arts are taught in an a+b=c technique fashion.

Huh? What does that have to do with video training?

from what I gather, Bruce Juchnik isn't going to grade anyone......it's merely a supplement to someone's existing training.

Well that's good and should be made explicit on the website, no?

You constantly look for excuses to bash kosho.....all without ever taking the time to hit a class......that's about as close minded as it gets.

Shawn,

the only things I have trouble with are silly stories of how people trained. Stories like, "I learned everything I needed to know to be a grand master sitting in prison." or "I got my black belt in Kempo from some unknown guy in and unknown style that looked a lot like Samurai sword fighting and I thought he got it from a book, but it was actually a complete system, and he couldn't have got it from a book bcause he couldn't read etc." are to me funny.

The only stuff I've seen Juchnik demonstrate on the Kosho tape I have is escrima which he seems to do quite well.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Concerning bans:

KoshoELessons / GracieELessons / Martial Arts E Center are the same person, or at the very least coming from the same PC.
KoshoELessons / GracieELessons were banned for violating our spam and multiple account policies.
Martial Arts E Center signed up within a day of the other 2 accounts being banned.

Our rules are very clear:
* Members are permitted a maximum of one account per person, regardless of how many organizations you represent. If you choose to ignore this important restriction, all your accounts will be disabled.
* No Advertising except in the advertising forums
* Members must provide full real name and real location in their profiles.
* Incomplete or obviously false accounts will be disabled at staff discretion.

All 3 accounts have different names, but trace back to the same computer.

This individual can provide a photocopy of a government issued ID, and a photo of them holding it and a copy of a recent newspaper, date on paper and ID clearly visible. We will reconsider upon receipt.

Harsh? Maybe. But they have already ignored the rules, spammed, and falsified information. MartialTalk does not welcome such behavior.

 

[Andrew Green]

My thoughts on E-learning and martial arts:

I don't see how videos and pictures on the Net are any different then books and DVD's, which are accepted.

Marketing is always geared towards maximizing profits, regardless of the quality of the material, some times it is deceptive and that is not good. But sadly it is almost an "accepted" fact in our society.

Like Dvd's and books people can put internet learning to good use, or get a greatly inflated view of themselves for reading it, doing things once solo and thinking they are a master. All depends on how they approach it.

Of course internet publishing is cheaper, and even has less quality control on content then books and DVD's. And I think the market has been soured by far too many "Become uber-deadly and get a black belt, instructors certificate and license to kill from the comfort of your own home" scams. But I can definately see the potential.

Doc got mentioned, so I assume you are of his style, if not fill in some other big name guy. But suppose some top guy from your branch created a e-learning program. Put a bunch of videos, training articles, pictures, explanations, the works. All online and available cheaper then a DVD set. Not only that, they updated regullarly, answering questions in words, video, or whatever best suited the question, where available to provide feedback on videos you submit to them, etc. Would you be interested?

I think there is potential in the idea.

Is the stuff on this site good? I got no idea, probably never will be able to answer that.

 

[kelly keltner]

Oh the various versions of how Juchnik trained in prison. First it was that he actually trained. Then, after tons of law enforcement personel came out and said that it wouldn't happen, it became, "Well they talked and he used hand gestures." etc. in order to convey the marterial needed to grant Grandmaster status to Juchnik.



While I am very sorry to falsely accuse anyone of being Gary Brewer, I actually did not. Re-read the post.




No doubt.



I never suggested that someone get banned, merely that they post elsewhere if they are unwilling to identify themselves. People should stand behind their comments.

The changing parts of the story are all part of the same story. Sorry been around that particular art for 14 years. I know some of the Law enforcement personell that back the story up. Sorry I wasn't there, I wasn't there, you were not there, and the multiple law enforcement officers you quote were not there. So let's say at this point it's an unprovable assertion one way or another. however the multiple parts of the story are all part of the same story. My understanding is that both techniques were part of the way he learned in prison. The story has been presented that way for as long as I have been associated with that art. Whether it's true or not who knows, but to say that it has changed recently because of what somebody said on matialtalk is untrue.

kk

 

[Danjo]

My thoughts on E-learning and martial arts:

I don't see how videos and pictures on the Net are any different then books and DVD's, which are accepted.

Accepted as supplements to live training, but not instead of it. They need to say that on their webpage if that's how they mean it.

Marketing is always geared towards maximizing profits, regardless of the quality of the material, some times it is deceptive and that is not good. But sadly it is almost an "accepted" fact in our society.

Like Dvd's and books people can put internet learning to good use, or get a greatly inflated view of themselves for reading it, doing things once solo and thinking they are a master. All depends on how they approach it.

Couldn't agree more.

Of course internet publishing is cheaper, and even has less quality control on content then books and DVD's. And I think the market has been soured by far too many "Become uber-deadly and get a black belt, instructors certificate and license to kill from the comfort of your own home" scams. But I can definately see the potential.

Again, see above.

Doc got mentioned, so I assume you are of his style, if not fill in some other big name guy. But suppose some top guy from your branch created a e-learning program. Put a bunch of videos, training articles, pictures, explanations, the works. All online and available cheaper then a DVD set. Not only that, they updated regullarly, answering questions in words, video, or whatever best suited the question, where available to provide feedback on videos you submit to them, etc. Would you be interested?

Nope, I'm not of his style, but I somehow don't think SL4 would be likely to show up on the internet like this. And if someone in any of the Kajukenbo world tried this, they'd be ridiculed to scorn.

I think there is potential in the idea.
Is the stuff on this site good? I got no idea, probably never will be able to answer that.

Well, whatever the material is like, the way it's being advertised is hokey in my opinion. They should come out and say, "We don't give rank, and this is only a supplement to live, supervised training, not a replacement for it."

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Accepted as supplements to live training, but not instead of it. They need to say that on their webpage if that's how they mean it.



Couldn't agree more.



Again, see above.




Nope, I'm not of his style, but I somehow don't think SL4 would be likely to show up on the internet like this. And if someone in any of the Kajukenbo world tried this, they'd be ridiculed to scorn.



Well, whatever the material is like, the way it's being advertised is hokey in my opinion. They should come out and say, "We don't give rank, and this is only a supplement to live, supervised training, not a replacement for it."

i agree 100% with you on this.
as far as the other comment I made, to which you replied about what it has to do with video training......instead of having a set technique such as 5 swords, you work a principle such as moving to an angle, and you work it in many different scenarios.....so the need to get a technique performed verbatim is not as important as presenting the application of the principle.

 

[KenpoDave]

What do you guys think of Tatum's "Tip of the Week?"

Or "On the Mat?"

They look like E-Lessons to me. Of course, they are free, and that is a difference.

I'll say it again. We are headed this way. What is happening now is the crawling before the walking.

Once there was rec.martial-arts. Now there's...this.

It's all good. If it's not, it will be remembered in the same breath with Roman Ancho and Al Farnsworth.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

What do you guys think of Tatum's "Tip of the Week?"

Or "On the Mat?"

They look like E-Lessons to me. Of course, they are free, and that is a difference.

I'll say it again. We are headed this way. What is happening now is the crawling before the walking.

Once there was rec.martial-arts. Now there's...this.

It's all good. If it's not, it will be remembered in the same breath with Roman Ancho and Al Farnsworth.

Dave, I don't think it's a terrible idea......especially for students of kosho ryu.
I'm sure many students will take advantage of it.
I imagine if Al Tracy did something similar, plenty of students would sign up just to see the grandmasters viewpoint on the material.

 

[Monadnock]

When senior martial artists come out with video supplimentals then that has its benefits. It is the same as DVD and VHS (which just about every style is doing), and can be better than magazine photos.

If all people can gripe about is the missing disclaimer, well, that's a bit of a stretch. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[MJS]

Just as a side note folks:

Lately, there has been an increase of posts, which give off the appearance of spam. Rather than get into a non-productive, heated debate with people whom you feel may not offer anything productive, telling them to leave, etc., please use the RTM. Its that little red triangle that can be found on everyones post. It generates a ticket that is looked at by the moderation team. From that point, we can take any necessary action.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation regarding this matter.

Mike Slosek
MT Supermod

 

[Danjo]

When senior martial artists come out with video supplimentals then that has its benefits. It is the same as DVD and VHS (which just about every style is doing), and can be better than magazine photos.

If all people can gripe about is the missing disclaimer, well, that's a bit of a stretch. Stupid is as stupid does.

It wasn't about missing a disclaimer. The site is misleading and we didn't know that they weren't going to issue rank until they came on and said so. They also don't say that it is merely supplemental on the page. re-read the order of this thread and pass me a box of chocolates Forest.

 

[J-Man]

I went to the site in question and it answers all of that on the FAQ page. Maybe it was just added...I don't know.

After reading the posts on this thread, it seems to me that this whole thing started with an attack on Bruce Juchnik...not whether you can achieve a certain belt color or if it is supplemental or not. Personally, I think that stuff is common sense. But I guess it depends on what your priorities are...(I am probably going to regret posting this and getting involved)...

 

[Monadnock]

It wasn't about missing a disclaimer. The site is misleading and we didn't know that they weren't going to issue rank until they came on and said so. They also don't say that it is merely supplemental on the page. re-read the order of this thread and pass me a box of chocolates Forest.

I did not find any statements of rank offerings, so I did not find it misleading. Lessons do not equate to rank. I've been in the software industry for about a decade, and online learning has always been supplemental. I would be more concerned with Intentional misleading, vs. ignorance.

"Assumtion is the mother of all F-ups."

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Concerning bans:

KoshoELessons / GracieELessons / Martial Arts E Center are the same person, or at the very least coming from the same PC.
KoshoELessons / GracieELessons were banned for violating our spam and multiple account policies.
Martial Arts E Center signed up within a day of the other 2 accounts being banned.

Our rules are very clear:
* Members are permitted a maximum of one account per person, regardless of how many organizations you represent. If you choose to ignore this important restriction, all your accounts will be disabled.
* No Advertising except in the advertising forums
* Members must provide full real name and real location in their profiles.
* Incomplete or obviously false accounts will be disabled at staff discretion.

All 3 accounts have different names, but trace back to the same computer.

This individual can provide a photocopy of a government issued ID, and a photo of them holding it and a copy of a recent newspaper, date on paper and ID clearly visible. We will reconsider upon receipt.

Harsh? Maybe. But they have already ignored the rules, spammed, and falsified information. MartialTalk does not welcome such behavior.

So someone came here under fake ID's and using multiple accounts to push these programs, was caught and banned, then signed up again to continue pushing it?

Says alot about the morals of the person doing the promotion in my opinion.
Also seems to say alot about the quality of the program, if one must hide behind false names and fake information.
They signed up and agreed that they had read the rules and would follow them. If they signed it and didn't read it, then they are a fool. If they read it and decided not to follow them, then they are a troll. I wouldn't waste a dime on any crap trolls and spammers push.

What was the reply when you asked for proof of ID?




As to the video training stuff. Reference maybe. But as a primary means of instruction in a martial art or self defense system, forget it.

 

[Danjo]

I went to the site in question and it answers all of that on the FAQ page. Maybe it was just added...I don't know.

After reading the posts on this thread, it seems to me that this whole thing started with an attack on Bruce Juchnik...not whether you can achieve a certain belt color or if it is supplemental or not. Personally, I think that stuff is common sense. But I guess it depends on what your priorities are...(I am probably going to regret posting this and getting involved)...

Yep,this whole thing was added since I started this thread:

"

Can I earn a belt just by using Kosho E Lessons?​

Kosho E Lessons is not about achieving rank and is certainly not a mail order belt program. The purpose of Kosho E Lessons is knowledge...to supplement your training and to provide you with information you would otherwise not have immediate access to. As with any reputable school, rank determination is based on proper technical skills and time. Simply viewing and learning the lessons online is not enough to advance in belt rank. Rank advancement takes a great deal of time, effort, and commitment under a qualified instructor.

Is Kosho E Lessons all I need to become a good Martial Artist?​

Kosho ELessons provides you with a great deal of information that can help you to become a good martial artist. However, it is our recommendation that you always work with a qualified instructor to insure you are applying the techniques safely and correctly. Also, regular practice with responsible partners and a qualified instructor will greatly increase your retention of the techniques and instruction."

 

[J-Man]

Yep,this whole thing was added since I started this thread:

"

Can I earn a belt just by using Kosho E Lessons?​

Kosho E Lessons is not about achieving rank and is certainly not a mail order belt program. The purpose of Kosho E Lessons is knowledge...to supplement your training and to provide you with information you would otherwise not have immediate access to. As with any reputable school, rank determination is based on proper technical skills and time. Simply viewing and learning the lessons online is not enough to advance in belt rank. Rank advancement takes a great deal of time, effort, and commitment under a qualified instructor.

Is Kosho E Lessons all I need to become a good Martial Artist?​

KoshoELessons provides you with a great deal of information that can help you to become a good martial artist. However, it is our recommendation that you always work with a qualified instructor to insure you are applying the techniques safely and correctly. Also, regular practice with responsible partners and a qualified instructor will greatly increase your retention of the techniques and instruction."

You're funny, Danjo...So does this mean you are ok with it then? Or can you not get past the Kosho or Bruce Juchnik thing? I noticed you said you trained at Ralph Gracie's a little...Ralph doesn't say anything about attaining rank or training with a qualified instructor on his products page (concerning his instructional dvd's). Personally, I think that is because most people know that already. As I stated earlier, it is common sense. Maybe you could bring those issues up to Ralph and see what he has to say...