Knees - The Forgotten Kick

[dancingalone]

We all have knee strikes in our system, but they frequently don't get the attention they deserve since 1) they are not explicitly demonstrated in most patterns and 2) they are generally forbidden in free-sparring since kneeing works best in conjunction with a hold or a clinch. However, any of you who are MMA fans know how lethal knee strikes can be - just watch replays of the UFC match between Rich Franklin and Anderson Silva. Franklin was absolutely punished by Silva who used his long limbs to great effect, grabbing Franklin and pummeling his face and torso with knee after knee.

Anyone with tips for improving one's knee strikes? These days I find myself a bit stiff in the hip area and I just don't feel I get the same velocity raising either knee that I used to.

 

[terryl965]

We kick the muay thai arn guards while in the clinch, this seems to help let us really kick and loosen those hips.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Here is a tip that I use for all rear leg kicks and may help with Knee strikes.

The rear foot should be pointing as much in a forward direction as possible on the ball of the foot with the knee bent. Think of a sprinter positioned in "Starting Blocks" That pushes off with the rear foot. Contrast that with how you can observe many people do rear leg techniques. They often move their lead foot first - slightly forward to facilitate a weight shift onto that foot and due to a lengthening of the stance this requires them to use the muscles of the hips and abdomen to lift their rear leg.

Using the push off method, the first thing to move is the rear foot / leg. The lead foot simply adjsuts it's position and angle as neccessary to facilitate the action of the rear leg after the rear leg motion has begun.

Have a partner watch you to make sure the first thing that moves is the rear leg. The partner can also hold a large Kicking shield for the knee strikes.

Note also: This does not mean the muscles of the rear hip and abdomen are not used. They are. They just are used in conjunction with the push off. The elements of the technique - Chamber / extension etc. remain the same. You can still reposition your lead leg as neccessary for change of angle or distance.

 

[clfsean]

Actually they are explicitly demonstrated IME & IMO, but they may not be perceived as such, especially within the "new" forms (Taeguk/Palgwe), but in the old Pyong-ahns, any time a turn was made, the knee was driven up & emphasized as a knee lift or covering lift for the lower body.

I think maybe it's just perspective & training more than inclusion/exclusion.

The one thing is for certain, without using them in sparring, they will go by the wayside.

 

[dancingalone]

Actually they are explicitly demonstrated IME & IMO, but they may not be perceived as such, especially within the "new" forms (Taeguk/Palgwe), but in the old Pyong-ahns, any time a turn was made, the knee was driven up & emphasized as a knee lift or covering lift for the lower body.

I think maybe it's just perspective & training more than inclusion/exclusion.

The one thing is for certain, without using them in sparring, they will go by the wayside.

The way I learned it, a knee's explicitly demonstrated in Pyung Ahn #4, but nowhere else. I also didn't learn to raise my knee on turns, since the application my sensei preferred to teach usually dealt with throws and you obviously want to be grounded when throwing someone else. That said, Chun Sik Kim's interpretation of Tang Soo Do does contain a very characteristic knee raise precisely for the reason you mention.

 

[StuartA]

Not forgotton here.. we use them in regular 'Taditional' sparring as standard!

Train them on pads, focus mitts (doubled) and bags.


Stuart

 

[CDKJudoka]

We use knees a lot. Unfortunately not during regular sparring, but when the "old-skoolers" start sparring one another, we don't use the sparring rules set forth. We spar more like KK fighters than TKD fighters.

As for other knee strikes, isn't there a knee strike/block in Kum Gung Hyung?

 

[Manny]

Ohhh yes the knee is the best kick to use in close yeah, saddly all the sparring we do is WTF so we don't use or allow the use of the knees, I will teach the knee kick the next time I could give a class using the kicking shield.

Manny

 

[ATC]

We have many knee stikes in our SD classes. My Sabunim really likes to see knee stikes an elbow when doing SD.

 

[Miles]

Not forgotton here.. we use them in regular 'Taditional' sparring as standard!

Train them on pads, focus mitts (doubled) and bags.


Stuart

Like Stuart, we practice knees on shields and the hanging bag. I'm trying to picture how to do it with focus pads-even doubled would seem to be too little protection for the holder? Do you grab the holder's shoulders and pull down while performing the kick?

BTW, the knee kick is seen in Taeguek 7.

Off Topic Alert!!! How about elbows? We did a drill last night against the hanging bag using roundhouse elbow strikes-fun stuff!

 

[clfsean]

Every chambered punch is a rear elbow.

Taeguek 5 (I think) has elbows in it like Pyong-ahn 4 & 5 does (elbow smash into opposite hand after kicking).

Elbows are everywhere (more than that above) but the situation dictates rather or not they get to play.

 

[ATC]

Every chambered punch is a rear elbow.

Taeguek 5 (I think) has elbows in it like Pyong-ahn 4 & 5 does (elbow smash into opposite hand after kicking).

Elbows are everywhere (more than that above) but the situation dictates rather or not they get to play.

Taeguek 5 and 8 both have elbows.

 

[clfsean]

Taeguek 5 and 8 both have elbows.

I haven't worked with anybody doing #8 yet...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Every chambered punch is a rear elbow.

Taeguek 5 (I think) has elbows in it like Pyong-ahn 4 & 5 does (elbow smash into opposite hand after kicking).

Elbows are everywhere (more than that above) but the situation dictates rather or not they get to play.

And ever kick to the front should lead with the knee.
Sean

 

[clfsean]

And ever kick to the front should lead with the knee.
Sean

Step #1 of a kick is the knee comes up...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Step #1 of a kick is the knee comes up...

No, step one is to launch your body forward off the back leg like Mr. Weiss just stated, but bring the knee toward the target is a close second.
Sean

 

[clfsean]

No, step one is to launch your body forward off the back leg like Mr. Weiss just stated, but bring the knee toward the target is a close second.
Sean

No... not the way I was taught. The knee comes up & the body drives in & through from the hips. Body control is maintained throughout the strike.

It's semantics on the technique... the point was the knee drives up & out for the kick...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Launching foward isn't exactly being out of control, its just an efficiant method of tranfering body weight into your opponent. Stabilize your base on his face, as it were.
Sean

 

[sempai little1]

Knee first, body first....All I know is I took one to the chest at my first endurance grading and I thought I was going to die.
Your friend,
Sempai Little1 :wavey:

 

[StuartA]

I'm trying to picture how to do it with focus pads-even doubled would seem to be too little protection for the holder?

Not with decent pads and one on top of the other! yes, you can feel a good one.. but thats the conditioning effect of it cover lol.[/quote]

Do you grab the holder's shoulders and pull down while performing the kick?

Yes.. shoulders or around the neck.

Stuart

Ps. We use elbows too... a little more controlled during Trad sparring however