Kicks - Love 'em? Hate 'em?

[markjandrews]

Class is coming up at 11:30 this morning. My wife is taking a well-deserved break from parenthood; our son is goofing around in the yard (I peek out the window every 15" or so. He's 11 and pretty independent. Gotta get some food in that kid before he blows a gasket 'cause his blood sugar is too low, but I digress).

My teacher and I have been talking about my next belt, moving from orange to green. I'm in the "green" neighborhood, not quite at the doorstep of the "green" house. It'll come.

Lately I've been reviewing basic kicks. This part of a larger review of all techniques to date for white, yellow, orange and green. Brad, my teacher, likes to pour in teaching and practice, let them settle, and repeat until its clear everything required is known, known well, can be demonstrated on demand, and optional fine points have been addressed. And maybe just a little more review to be sure.

So, kicks. I am 6' even, 240+, pre-diabetic (under treatment w/physician). Gout/pseudo-gout sufferer, but no flare-ups in 10 months (also under treatment w/rheumatologist - sic). I find the mechanics of kicks HARD, even with practice. Before class today I will try the lot - front snap, front side, roundhouse, back (aka "mule"), inside crescent, outside crescent, slap & scoop. I am sure missed some basic kick, but the ones I remember will keep me busy until I whatever I missed comes to mind.

Lately I have tried doing a few of each type slowly, feeling what it is like to keep and lose balance through the motion of the kick. I've noticed that, habitually, I don't make full use of my hip joints. It is an interesting exercise to discover and extend the full range of motion of the "ball & socket" joint, and open my hips up. I think I could spend a year on this. Maybe I should. I tend to hurry, do a sloppy-fast kick, it looks awful, nothing martial or artistic in it all, and I get frustrated.

The old saw goes "Practice makes perfect," but the variation I like is "Perfect practice makes perfect. First do the technique correctly. Then, with time & care, add a little speed. If the technique falls apart, (I'm scolding myself) FIRST DO THE TECHNIQUE CORRECTLY." If necessary, break it down into parts. Examine each part. Put the parts back together. Don't think "putting the parts back together" has to be sequential or linear. Sometimes I think of a technique as having parts, and I may look at the first and last part. Just a way to keep the study fresh. I've got to apply this to all my kicks.

I started my martial arts study in September, 1997. I've dipped in and out of the 'arts since then, amidst family, work, life, etc. I started studying Hapkido 3 (maybe 4) years ago. I've gone from white belt to orange, and green is visible on the horizon. I've started looking at some purple belt techniques. It'll come.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

First and foremost, I salute you for putting in the time, thought and effort. That's a major portion of it right there and alone puts you above what many others are willing to commit to doing.


On a personal level, I can honestly do without kicks (for the most part). For several reasons. Now to be clear, I know how to do the various kicks, and I teach them. However, I come at everything in the martial arts from a self-defense perspective (so my viewpoint will differ from someone that is into competitions and other such sport related pursuits). I practice I hardly ever kick above knee height. First, I'm not in my 20's anymore and to be honest I'm not in my 30's and soon to be saying goodbye to my 40's. Secondly, for nearly a quarter century I've been wearing a duty belt that I figure is around 25lbs (Glock, spare mags, taser, spare cartridge, cuffs, 911 tool, radio, MTM ventilator, O.C. spray etc). That kinda wears on the lower back. Third, I conservatively estimate I've been in around a thousand uses-of-force and I honestly don't believe I've ever kicked anyone. I've knee spiked people, but not a 'martial-artsy' kick of any kind. Lastly, I don't like to be on one leg for any length of time so if I ever kick anyone in the head it's because his head is currently below his waist. My specialty runs towards things like locks and throws and cavity pressing so I'm want to maintain good balance to accomplish those things.

However, if you like kicking and wish to pursue good form and such then I think you're on a good path. Doing something slowly can allow you to really connect all the dots so-to-speak. What muscles are being used, staying on balance, using the hands properly to counter-balance etc. Keep in mind that not everyone's body type is adept at every physical pursuit, and that's okay. I've taught guys that were built like fire plugs. These guys were NEVER going to kick the top of the door jam. But taking you to the ground or pounding you to the body was right up their alley. So keep in mind what you can do well and what you can't (for whatever reason i.e. body type, prior injury etc) and pursue excellence in what you can and don't feel bad for what you can't do well.

 

[Transk53]

Class is coming up at 11:30 this morning. My wife is taking a well-deserved break from parenthood; our son is goofing around in the yard (I peek out the window every 15" or so. He's 11 and pretty independent. Gotta get some food in that kid before he blows a gasket 'cause his blood sugar is too low, but I digress).

My teacher and I have been talking about my next belt, moving from orange to green. I'm in the "green" neighborhood, not quite at the doorstep of the "green" house. It'll come.

Lately I've been reviewing basic kicks. This part of a larger review of all techniques to date for white, yellow, orange and green. Brad, my teacher, likes to pour in teaching and practice, let them settle, and repeat until its clear everything required is known, known well, can be demonstrated on demand, and optional fine points have been addressed. And maybe just a little more review to be sure.

So, kicks. I am 6' even, 240+, pre-diabetic (under treatment w/physician). Gout/pseudo-gout sufferer, but no flare-ups in 10 months (also under treatment w/rheumatologist - sic). I find the mechanics of kicks HARD, even with practice. Before class today I will try the lot - front snap, front side, roundhouse, back (aka "mule"), inside crescent, outside crescent, slap & scoop. I am sure missed some basic kick, but the ones I remember will keep me busy until I whatever I missed comes to mind.

Lately I have tried doing a few of each type slowly, feeling what it is like to keep and lose balance through the motion of the kick. I've noticed that, habitually, I don't make full use of my hip joints. It is an interesting exercise to discover and extend the full range of motion of the "ball & socket" joint, and open my hips up. I think I could spend a year on this. Maybe I should. I tend to hurry, do a sloppy-fast kick, it looks awful, nothing martial or artistic in it all, and I get frustrated.

The old saw goes "Practice makes perfect," but the variation I like is "Perfect practice makes perfect. First do the technique correctly. Then, with time & care, add a little speed. If the technique falls apart, (I'm scolding myself) FIRST DO THE TECHNIQUE CORRECTLY." If necessary, break it down into parts. Examine each part. Put the parts back together. Don't think "putting the parts back together" has to be sequential or linear. Sometimes I think of a technique as having parts, and I may look at the first and last part. Just a way to keep the study fresh. I've got to apply this to all my kicks.

I started my martial arts study in September, 1997. I've dipped in and out of the 'arts since then, amidst family, work, life, etc. I started studying Hapkido 3 (maybe 4) years ago. I've gone from white belt to orange, and green is visible on the horizon. I've started looking at some purple belt techniques. It'll come.

Welcome to the forum Have to say, what an opening post! Thanks for sharing because I can identify with some of the above, especially frustration, but also health as well. All I can say is keep going, as it is said "Its time will come" ​Best of luck

 

[markjandrews]

Expect a longer reply, but from what you've written, you must be an LEO, is that correct? It takes a great, all-encompassing heart to put yourself between complete strangers and harm. THANK YOU, SIR - R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

 

[markjandrews]

Thanks, in turn, for your kind words. The planets must be in alignment, well the planets and coffee, for me to say anything useful. May it happen again!

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Expect a longer reply, but from what you've written, you must be an LEO, is that correct? It takes a great, all-encompassing heart to put yourself between complete strangers and harm. THANK YOU, SIR - R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Yes sir and thank you.

 

[oftheherd1]

I continue to practice kicks for stamina, strength, balance, and stretch. But I agree with Kong Soo Do that kicks above the waist are not usually considered good for fighting. My GM told me that most GM considered kicks at waist level and below best if one had to defend himself. But since some Hapkido techniques teach use of kicks, you should learn them. Also, you can better learn how to defend against that which you know how to do.

But one of the first things I was taught about Hapkido was that we do whatever it takes for the individual to make a technique work. So practice how it works best for you. Never stop.

 

[Manny]

I am almost 47 years old, 6 feet and something and 257 pounds of pure rock and roll, I've been doing TKD since I was a teen but droped when married and returned in 2007. Now with a third dan hang in my waist I can tell you somethings about kicks. I really love kicks, they are strong and with a solid kick you can drop almost anyone, however been a taekwondoing I hate only kicking inside the dojang, I mean TKD as any other martial art sull be a mix up of techs but WTF TKD relies only in kicking, yeap the flashy/flamboyant ones that in my opinion are worthless in the street and I am not a kidie anymore trying to win olimpics so my kicks remain basic ones, I don't wana mess with kicks that put such an effort on my feet,ankles,kneees, etc. I am a truly beliver of a solid kick to the mid section and also I know that a high kick can be blocked or grabed and then the one that trew the kick go to the floor easily, the teens on the dojang I go like to nail the head but in several times I have blocked their kicks and they simply stumble to the mat.

I love to mix kicks with hand techs and even trows, grabs and sweaps.

Manny

 

[donnaTKD]

i train in muay thai and the kicks that do most "damage" are the ones to the mid section and the ones to the legs (thighs and knees) for me head kicks although they look great and do a bit damage in competition just aren't worth trying in the street --- you need time and space to get a head kick in and you'll be on one leg for a long time compared to a low kick which if admistered properly will have the other person in plenty of pain and you can use punches for your head shots

 

[Buka]

I don't kick much anymore. But for 35 years I loved kicks more than chocolate on a paid holiday.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I put a lot of emphasis on kicks early on because good kicking is very hard to develop.

The class I teach is more SD oriented than arty (for lack of a better term), so I don't emphasize kicks above waist level. I have students ranging from their teens to their sixties. I tell people to kick as high as they can comfortably and correctly kick. If the highest you can kick correctly is knee level, then don't kick higher until you're able.

I'm nearly fifty and can still kick at head level, so I do practice high kicks for the flexibility benefits and for fun, but I don't consider high kicks or fancy kicking (jump kicks, spinning kicks, etc.) to be an essential in a self defense class.

 

[Raymond]

Kicking should be an important part of a self defense curriculum. When I taught a youth program, the first kicks taught were front snap kick and side kick. Both were specifically targeted to the insteps, shins, groin and knees of an opponent. After that next came low round kicks to the legs. We have to remember that we need to give the most efficient and most effective techniques to someone early on so they can defend themselves right away. Legs tend to be longer and stronger than arms, and a weaker person can generate a lot of power to sensitive areas. Then as the students worked their way up the through the higher ranks, they would be expected to show higher and higher kicks. The emphasis was on being very proficient with a small core of kicks. Then as they worked higher, combination of hand and kick techniques were taught and expected.

 

[oftheherd1]

I put a lot of emphasis on kicks early on because good kicking is very hard to develop.

The class I teach is more SD oriented than arty (for lack of a better term), so I don't emphasize kicks above waist level. I have students ranging from their teens to their sixties. I tell people to kick as high as they can comfortably and correctly kick. If the highest you can kick correctly is knee level, then don't kick higher until you're able.

I'm nearly fifty and can still kick at head level, so I do practice high kicks for the flexibility benefits and for fun, but I don't consider high kicks or fancy kicking (jump kicks, spinning kicks, etc.) to be an essential in a self defense class.

Seems like sound teaching. But I'm just curious if you teach the spinning kick to the ankle or abdomen?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Seems like sound teaching. But I'm just curious if you teach the spinning kick to the ankle or abdomen?

To the abdomen (or if I'm training Hobbits, to the knee of their human opponents). The height of some kicks are, by nature, going to be higher or lower than others; a crouching spin kick will probably not be a head level kick.

Just for the record, I don't think that kicks that target above the waist are necessarily pointless or that they have no self defense applications, but as a general rule, I recommend foot/leg techniques to be waist level and below and hand techniques to be waist level and above.

 

[Raymond]

Andy Hug, the late Kyokushin karateka and kickboxer, used a low spinning kick to the knees and thighs very successfully.

Best Spinning KO Kicks Tribute (Andy Hug and others) - YouTube