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TonyM.
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- Thread Starter
- #21
of course Ki is not real and everyone practicing Ki/chi based arts should stop now.
Yes, but that is not where the burden of proof lies. It is impossible to disprove something that does not exist.mj-hi-yah said:
Do you also leave open the possibility that there is a world wide gag being played on you. Everytime you're not looking the Moon turns purple with bright pink polka dots. Everyone else knows this, we're just not telling you. Can you disprove it?
What I have experienced is a marked difference in the power generated in the strikes I can now throw as well as a measurable difference in the pain that resonates through my body when hit by a person who has learned to do so in the same relaxed state with proper angles. If I throw the same strike with the proper angles and do not concentrate on my own relaxation the strike is much less effective. The strike looks the same, but it's my thoughts that change. If it were simply a matter of body mechanics there would be no difference in the outcome. I have been on both ends of these strikes and have experienced the difference.Floating Egg said:
To achieve this state of relaxation for me requires real concentration. Do I atomically assume that this is me and others channeling our Ki? No, nor did I say so. I make no such definite assumption, nor do I deny the possibility of the existence of it aiding in the efficiency of our strikes. I am not a scientist and do not claim to be, but I'm interested in exploring this subject further and entertain thoughts on both sides - it is my personal choice to keep an open mind. :asian:
What I do know is that Ki is often described as an energy. Let's look for a moment at energy. Energy is the ability to do work, and it is found in many forms, including things such as heat, light, sound and motion. My work of striking is markedly improved when I concentrate on the work of striking through relaxation. When I do this work I know I am generating heat because my body will begin to sweat, and I am also aware that it involves motion, because I must move my body in a certain way in order to strike my target. When I involve my mind my work here becomes more effecient. I know what I've felt and I know the power I have learned to generate. I believe in a strong connection between the body and mind and I believe that the body and our health can be affected by our thoughts. So my thoughts help me to control my relaxation and improve the efficiency of my strikes, all of this involves my using energy, and I leave open the possibility that energy could be channeled more efficiently through our thoughts.
Andrew what are you talking about? Everyone knows the Moon is yellow because it's made of cheese! :uhyeah: While I'm certainly interested in and willing to look at any evidence on either side of this, I will also say that I know that my oven uses energy to bake a cake, but I don't need to know exactly how it works to enjoy the cake at a party! Our thoughts control our motions, our motions utilize energy, and when coupled with concentrated relaxation the power of my strikes have dramatically improved to the point where I have bent guys much bigger and stronger than me. To me this is remarkable. I'm a petite woman and have no other way of explaining how I could possibly make this happen. I'm not sure that I need to know in scientific detail just why this is, but that I can do this is what matters most to me, and while I don't feel burdened to prove why I remain open to the possibility of it being connected to Ki, I'd say keep an open mind until you've taken one or learned to throw one of these strikes. If anyone is interested PM me and I can give you the contact information for the person who taught me.
MJ :asian:
True. Has someone placed a claim that [whatever] must exist if you can't disprove it? I only see you quoting a claim that someone would remain open to the possability.
For example: Black holes have not been proven. We are far closer now than we used to be, though there are still functional alternatives (such as the proposal for dark-stars which push out dark energy, acting like black-holes until you get close enough... thus offering both an alternate explanation for gamma ray emissions, and for consolidating quantum physics and general relativity when discussing supermassive objects).
I'm still open to the possability that there are black holes. I'm open to the possabilty that there are vibrating quantum strings. Can you prove them? Should I dismiss the *possability* do to a lack of proof.
If we can move past proof, we can discuss *reasons* for suspecting. Why did people believe there might be black-holes when they were unproven? Why do they believe there are when it is unproven?
Of course, there are reasons on the other side as well. The number of things claimed to bt "chi" which can be explained though more mundane methods, the number of fakes, the number of claims which should be testable under control conditions but for which no successful testing has been recorded... But I suspect that there's a good deal of ego invested in your dismissal as well. It creates an "us" vs "them"... like grapplers saying that you always grapple and strikers saying grappling will get you killed for going to ground, energetic arts claim that arts without energy are incomplete, and arts without energy, claim it's superstitious mumbo-jumbo.
I assume that you are an athiest?
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TonyM.
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- Thread Starter
- #26
Aw, Andrew snitched! The blue meannies are gonna come for him now!
still learning
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Hello, KI is an inner power. How does one explain a mother who lifts a car up to save her child. How many times have we heard something similar to that.
There are people who have a strong inner sense of power. Most of us only use a small portion of our brains.
Akidoist? not all will learn the thru power of KI. For those who understand and are able to tap it? Knows it is there.
How do we explain something most of us who will never learn its' power. To believe it is the first step.
People who can predict the future, people who can find bodies for the police? How do we explain that?
Sometimes when there is no solid explanations doesn't mean it is not real!
KI has be around for century's. Why? Because it is there! Like a ghost to some and real for others. The computor KEYS were use to write this. Aloha
There are people who have a strong inner sense of power. Most of us only use a small portion of our brains.
Akidoist? not all will learn the thru power of KI. For those who understand and are able to tap it? Knows it is there.
How do we explain something most of us who will never learn its' power. To believe it is the first step.
People who can predict the future, people who can find bodies for the police? How do we explain that?
Sometimes when there is no solid explanations doesn't mean it is not real!
KI has be around for century's. Why? Because it is there! Like a ghost to some and real for others. The computor KEYS were use to write this. Aloha
Floating Egg
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That's an Urban Legend, which is why we've heard it so many times.
The idea that we use only a small portion of our brain is certainly an appealing idea and many people use it to explain their psychic beliefs. Unfortunately, it too is an Urban legend.
Those that have made predictions over the centuries have often presented their material in the vagueist possible way so that readers can make their own associations. Then there are people that claim they've predicted certain tragedies after the event has already taken place.
Many psychics bolster their claims by affliating themselves with police departments and these police departments have regularly denied association.
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
a mother is able to lift a car due to ANS response. not really an urban legend.
we do only use a small percentage of surface area of our brains, to say that we use the entire thing would be to say that we have no more room to develop new neural pathways which is essentially what happens when the brain learns something new. think RAM in a computer that would have an endless supply of bits to either turn on or off.
we do only use a small percentage of surface area of our brains, to say that we use the entire thing would be to say that we have no more room to develop new neural pathways which is essentially what happens when the brain learns something new. think RAM in a computer that would have an endless supply of bits to either turn on or off.
Floating Egg
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The specific story of a woman lifting a car off of her child is an Urban Legend. I wasn't addressing the possibility that the average women could lift a car due to the nature of still learning's question. I'm not sure I understand the relationship between the ANS and dramatically increased strength. I did a search on google for any studies related to this, but all I was able to find was stress response related information.
This particular myth, that we use a small percentage our brain stems from a number of different sources, usually taken out of context. One of the more popular claims is the 10% myth. While certain parts of the brain may be engaged by specific activities, during the course of a day we use most of our brain. All of this has been proven with functional magnetic resonance imaging and PET scans. Even without the use of these technologies, from an evolutionary standpoint using only a small portion of a hungry brain doesn't make much sense.
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
is google where you're getting your info? what are your qualifications?Floating Egg said:
Floating Egg
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Since this is text I am unable to judge the intent behind your first question, but I do find it curious. If I say that I obtained my information through written materials does that make my position more or less valid than if I used the Internet as a research tool?
As for your second question, if you're asking if I'm a neuroscientist because of my comment about brain use, then the answer is no. If you're asking if I'm a folklorist because of my comment about Urban Legends, then the answer is no. If you're asking if I'm an expert on anything and everything then the answer is no. The only qualification that I have that's relevent to this discussion is that I'm a skeptic that knows how to ask questions. If I'm lucky, I ocassionally find answers.
Han-Mi
Purple Belt
I have a certain control over my bodies energy that the average person doesn't. I don't know if it is Ki or just my adrenaline and energy reserves that I tap into, but It is something that I am able to switch on and off in an instant and it aids me in sparring, forms, breaking, fighting(sparring and fighting ARE 2 different things). After enough time in the martial arts you learn to control your energy, whether it is mystical or not, that is something I still haven't been able to decide on.
Hi Folks
In regards to Ki, Chi, Energy etc. Personally I dont believe that it is some mystical power. I believe it is merely the proper execution of techniquie at the opponets weakest moment. Now when I say execution of technique, I mean proper breathing, Excellent technique and numerous other factors all coming together at one moment.
Chi, Ki, energy is not in my opinion some mystical power that can stop a speeding bullet. Years ago I went to a seminar where this guy claimed to be able to moved ppl with his Chi and no physical contact. He showed some pretty interesting stuff but nothing I havent seen before. Then came the part where he was going to strike ppl andmove them with only his Chi. after several so call successful attempts I decided to volunteer. He told me to hold my breath and exhale when I felt his energy. Let me just cut this short and say I was not moved. He said that there are ppl out there that Chi does not work on.
What good is it if it doesnt work all the time? I will gladly volunteer anytime for someone to hit me with their energy provided they volunteer to allow me to hit them and see if their energy can stop my strike. Sounds fair to me.
In regards to Ki, Chi, Energy etc. Personally I dont believe that it is some mystical power. I believe it is merely the proper execution of techniquie at the opponets weakest moment. Now when I say execution of technique, I mean proper breathing, Excellent technique and numerous other factors all coming together at one moment.
Chi, Ki, energy is not in my opinion some mystical power that can stop a speeding bullet. Years ago I went to a seminar where this guy claimed to be able to moved ppl with his Chi and no physical contact. He showed some pretty interesting stuff but nothing I havent seen before. Then came the part where he was going to strike ppl andmove them with only his Chi. after several so call successful attempts I decided to volunteer. He told me to hold my breath and exhale when I felt his energy. Let me just cut this short and say I was not moved. He said that there are ppl out there that Chi does not work on.
What good is it if it doesnt work all the time? I will gladly volunteer anytime for someone to hit me with their energy provided they volunteer to allow me to hit them and see if their energy can stop my strike. Sounds fair to me.
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
PET scans demonstrate varying levels of activity, coded by te hardware as colors reflecting hieghtened or lowered activity. Idleing in neutral will still produce a color. PET scan technology is also not tract-specific. That is to say, some bunch of activity can be going on in one tract of neurons, while the remainder fo the group around it remain chillin'. Since the blood and energy flow through that particular part of the brain is not generally elevated, the tract activity may not show.Floating Egg said:
Besides...a self-declared skeptic using PET scan as a choice of evidence? The technology itself, and what it may or may not show, remains suspect in itself. The only brain cells not exhibiting signal would be dead ones. Don't mean their busy. Just alive.
ANS & Increased strength: Autonomic nervous system is subdivided into 2 main divisions: Sympathetic, and Parasympathetic. In "urban legend" terms, the sympathetic nervous system is the "flight or fight" system, while the parasympathetic is the "rest, relax and recuperate" nervous system. When the SNS gets kicked on, adrenals get tickled to release their little drug into the blood stream, which shunts blood away from the organs, and into the brain and extremities, and which causes a body-wide shift in energy metabolism. Cars off kids? Nah. Fist through a door you would have otherwise busted your hand on? All the time. An evolutionary necessity to survive the traumas and dramas of life in the serengeti.
Most folks about to demonstrate an act of "ki", get themselves ramped up for it...gettnig "psyche up" with an expectation also fires up the SNS division of the ANS, increasing adrenaline metabolism, etc. Not magic, but definitely the human body at it's most brilliant.
You know why drugs are so addicting? Because our nervous system has receptors that cherish hormones that resemble drug compounds. One of the most addicting in our bodies is adrenaline...it's why people literally become addicted to pathological states or emotions...gets them their fix. Also why meth is a bugger for people to quit...copies adrenaline.
Also have neuro-receptors that really like nicotene, mescaline, opium, and others.
Regards,
D.
Simply not an accurate statement. Brain cells being worked, like muscle cells being worked, consume sugar for energy (though the sugar in question is different). PET scans function by introducing and tracking sugar consumption. Spend time talking, and your language centers will work (along with the protion of your brain controlling your mouth), and therefore need more energy and consume sugar... showing up "brighter" on a PET scan.
That said, I doubt that any of the people who had their brain scanned for the experiement were simultaniously doing gymnastics, learning a new language, painting, creating new stories, meditating, dreaming, dealing with pain, having sex, playing a video game, learning to read brail, eating and sleeping.
Since different portions of the brain berform different functions, it's silly to assume that any brain would show as 100% active at any point.
I've got a friend who used to enjoy showing off by lifting the back of my car up. I've got actual video of a rather portly man lifting a helicoptor up enough for a trapped pilot to escape. Unless someone is claiming that a given woman hefted a car completely into the air, I have no difficulty believing that a adremeline-pumped woman lifted a portion of a car off the ground... and sufferred for it quite a bit a little later.
Sin
2nd Black Belt
Andrew Green said:
LMAO...I only ment it as a joke
lol - Yes, post count is too high for it not to be 
BUt it is how frightening how many don't mean it as a joke. Now where is my ice pack and advil?
BUt it is how frightening how many don't mean it as a joke. Now where is my ice pack and advil?
Sin
2nd Black Belt
::hands andrew advil & Ice pack::
If the DBZ aspect of Ki were possible, don't you think that everyone would use it, and it would be widely known.
If the DBZ aspect of Ki were possible, don't you think that everyone would use it, and it would be widely known.
Suntail
Yellow Belt
I believe in chi. If you don't, I don't care. In my personal opinion, I don't think that you can prove or disprove it with convential means, much less random nuero science. The fact that you don't use all of your brain is true, at least conventionally. It doesn't have anything to do with chi as I see it.
