Keysi Fighting Method/Defence Lab

[jobo]

Like you came up with your 50% result?

That's not data, that's just an irrUtable fact, if you don't accept that then refute it with some data,

 

[pdg]

Right ok, so why are the bjj, folk claiming their is scientific evidence that bjj, improves your self defence,

You've bought in to tkw, and are assuming it has improved yourself defence abilitirs, it could just as easily have made you worse, with luck you will never find out

I'm not assuming it's improved or degraded any self defence abilities I may or may not have had previously.

I can say that if I'm put into a situation where I might get hit I now stand a better chance than before I started - I can say that because sparring.

 

[drop bear]

That's not data, that's just an irrUtable fact, if you don't accept that then refute it with some data,

Lol. That everyone refuted.

OK. So say I wanted to look at my coach using just data. (Now he is MMA not BJJ) I can.

And you will notice he has a greater than 50% success rate.

Anton Zafir - MMA Fighter Profile, Ranking - FightMatrix.com

Now say I wanted to get any information at all on defence lab. I can't.

And before I can look at works for self defence. I really need to start with works at all anywhere.

 

[drop bear]

to be consistent gains you need to gain consistently, the moment you don't gain then your gains are inconsistent??????

No the result just have to reflect the method. So if I lift weight and get stronger. I can say lifting weight makes me stronger.

If that happens for enough people then the result is consistent.

 

[veritasAequitas]

but self defence is the topic under discussion,or rather defence lab and their self defence program and why or why not bjj is better or not, arguing its better in competition is irrelevant, unless they will let you have a broken bottle or one of Those. Dl rings

You know those rings are just a con to get you buy **** right?

The techniques associated with them rely on pain response, which is very very unreliable.

 

[veritasAequitas]

You realize DL is based on faulty premise right?

If you turtle you are going to get uppercutted.
They train frames is because its an easy way to teach someone.
The very first day they use techniques to make you want to join defense lab.

Its called the 4 man box its the cornerstone of the training methodology.

Put a person in the middle , then put 4 people on each compass point with focus pads on.

The person in the middle may defend, no striking allowed.

The only way you can survive this drill is to frame.

 

[jobo]

I'm not assuming it's improved or degraded any self defence abilities I may or may not have had previously.

I can say that if I'm put into a situation where I might get hit I now stand a better chance than before I started - I can say that because sparring.

So you are assuming it's made your self defence capabilities better, ok maybe that a reasonable assumption, but a person who takes up nearly any sport, could reasonably make the same assumption, because of fitness, improveD reaction time, better ballance etc, so your no more certain than someone who plays ping,Pong of your increased ability ?

 

[jobo]

You know those rings are just a con to get you buy **** right?

The techniques associated with them rely on pain response, which is very very unreliable.

Arm bars rely on pain compliance and you seem very fond of those

 

[jobo]

You realize DL is based on faulty premise right?

If you turtle you are going to get uppercutted.
They train frames is because its an easy way to teach someone.
The very first day they use techniques to make you want to join defense lab.

Its called the 4 man box its the cornerstone of the training methodology.

Put a person in the middle , then put 4 people on each compass point with focus pads on.

The person in the middle may defend, no striking allowed.

The only way you can survive this drill is to frame.

Well no, your argument is based on a false premise, fighting 4people is extremely difficult, there's a very very high chance you will lose,if you canT escape then covering up to limit the damage is a reasonable strAtegy, if you tried to use bjj, on one of them, arm bar, choke hold, mount etc, then the other three will pummel, you,
Just the same as that vid you keep going on about.

Bjj, is A lot less than useless in those circumstances, if dl , is useless it's still better than bjj,As you limited the damage. Upper cuts are not a common punch in the untrained, as such they a) won't happen or b) will carry little power of they do, much better than a Hay maker, which most people can make work

 

[jobo]

Lol. That everyone refuted.

OK. So say I wanted to look at my coach using just data. (Now he is MMA not BJJ) I can.

And you will notice he has a greater than 50% success rate.

Anton Zafir - MMA Fighter Profile, Ranking - FightMatrix.com

Now say I wanted to get any information at all on defence lab. I can't.

And before I can look at works for self defence. I really need to start with works at all anywhere.

Perhaps a quick rehash is required, the claim your trying to support, bjj, is better than defence lab at SELF DEFENCE because of science.

So that needs you to provided the science you claim, in a self defence context.

We have established that bjj, competition is inadequate for that purpose, why do you think mma, is any better foR this,?

 

[drop bear]

Perhaps a quick rehash is required, the claim your trying to support, bjj, is better than defence lab at SELF DEFENCE because of science.

So that needs you to provided the science you claim, in a self defence context.

We have established that bjj, competition is inadequate for that purpose, why do you think mma, is any better foR this,?

Because before we can determine what works for self defence. We need to determine if it works at all anywhere. We can determine that with BJJ or MMA. then all we have to work out what self defence reflect circumstances in competition.

And we can gain a more accurate model.

From there we can start adding anecdotes and expert opinion.

Then we can take all that back to the lab and train those concepts live with resistance.

And have a real self defence system based on scientific method.

We can't start with what works for self defence. Shooting people with lazer beam eyes would be freaking awesome for self defence just a pitty it is not possible.

 

[jobo]

Because before we can determine what works for self defence. We need to determine if it works at all anywhere. We can determine that with BJJ or MMA. then all we have to work out what self defence reflect circumstances in competition.

And we can gain a more accurate model.

From there we can start adding anecdotes and expert opinion.

Then we can take all that back to the lab and train those concepts live with resistance.

And have a real self defence system based on scientific method.

We can't start with what works for self defence. Shooting people with lazer beam eyes would be freaking awesome for self defence just a pitty it is not possible.

So are you now saying the science that bjj,works in self defence DOESN't exist and you will have to go away and develop it ? Ok we can agree on that

 

[veritasAequitas]

Arm bars rely on pain compliance and you seem very fond of those

You break a person structure with the bar, you are relying on controlling or breaking the limb not pain.

You are also ignoring my points, all of the time and its becoming annoying.

They sell the rings and "defensive jewelery" to scam money out of you, pretty sure the UK laws say that using those is assault with an offensive weapon.

 

[drop bear]

So are you now saying the science that bjj,works in self defence DOESN't exist and you will have to go away and develop it ? Ok we can agree on that

Well no. Working at all is better than not working at all. So it is a lot further along the progression of working for self defence than DL.

DL needs to be developed further so it can reach the effectiveness of BJJ. Then both systems can use further developement.

You have your progressions out of order.

 

[jobo]

Well no. Working at all is better than not working at all. So it is a lot further along the progression of working for self defence than DL.

DL needs to be developed further so it can reach the effectiveness of BJJ. Then both systems can use further developement.

You have your progressions out of order.

For a moment there I though your started being rational.
Bjj, is proven, with a 50%success rate to work against other bjj,ers, wing chUnwill work against other wing chuners, fighting with a cardboard tube will work if your opponent can only use a card Board s tube. Saying it works in very limited circumstances with a heavily defIned rule set, is not a good indexation of its likely usefulness in self defence,

 

[veritasAequitas]

For a moment there I though your started being rational.
Bjj, is proven, with a 50%success rate to work against other bjj,ers, wing chUnwill work against other wing chuners, fighting with a cardboard tube will work if your opponent can only use a card Board s tube. Saying it works in very limited circumstances with a heavily defIned rule set, is not a good indexation of its likely usefulness in self defence,

You know the ground work of DL is a very very watered down version of BJJ right?

OR would you now no longer prefer DL now i point out that Andy norman is a purple belt under Rigan

 

[jobo]

You know the ground work of DL is a very very watered down version of BJJ right?

OR would you now no longer prefer DL now i point out that Andy norman is a purple belt under Rigan

Yo say watered down others might say modified for non no refereed fighting, u

 

[drop bear]

For a moment there I though your started being rational.
Bjj, is proven, with a 50%success rate to work against other bjj,ers, wing chUnwill work against other wing chuners, fighting with a cardboard tube will work if your opponent can only use a card Board s tube. Saying it works in very limited circumstances with a heavily defIned rule set, is not a good indexation of its likely usefulness in self defence,

Exept there is no evidence of DL working in any environment.

There is a 0% success rate of DL working anywhere. So even your incorrect conclusion of a 50% success is still 50% better.

And then we can go to individual BJJ competitors who have a much greater than 50%. DL still being at zero. Then we can find the competitor that compete in other styles like MMA and DL is still zero. We can even see on youtube BJJ working in self defence. And DL still is zero for evidence of anything.

Even the guy fighing with the cardboard tube has more evidence behind it than DL at this stage.

 

[jobo]

You break a person structure with the bar, you are relying on controlling or breaking the limb not pain.

You are also ignoring my points, all of the time and its becoming annoying.

They sell the rings and "defensive jewelery" to scam money out of you, pretty sure the UK laws say that using those is assault with an offensive weapon.

There no such thing in UK law as assault with an offensive weapon,, there is Wounding with a weapon, but that's any weapon, even aCard board tube, which will always have the legally specified defence of SELF defence.

If wearing them is carrying an offensive weapon, ( which is an offence) is debatable, but possibly so

 

[veritasAequitas]

Yo say watered down others might say modified for non no refereed fighting, u

The mount escape relies on pain response. Its watered down, you can escape a mount without doing that.

I dont know how many times i have to keep telling you I trained KFM/Defense lab FOR YEARS.

Find me one video of defense lab sparring or being used in a street fight , you wont.

I have provided BJJ, you provide defense lab, i can wait.