Kenpo technique video clips. Any comments?

[lonekimono10]

wow all this reading is making my eyes water .

"we do what we do because we do it"
but if we don't do it the same way as the other person(same style of course)
than thats when people will have something to say.
why?? look i don't give a rats *** what belt someone wears, because when it comes down to getting down(on the floor) you will know for sure.
now getting back to what this was all about, it was that kenpo clip, now we all know that it was really rocky and yes i will say this 5 swords was messed up
and that backbeaker was well we all now,but the man went to Tatum camps and picked this stuff up like i said i called him and we are going to get together(he has no teacher in kenpo)
let me ask everyone something,, if i was in a boat and i fell overboard and i only just learned how to swin, and a couple you guys were there would some one jump in and save me /help me??

 

[Doc]

Now you are starting to upset me, with all your claiming of "copyrights and exclusivity's" of rants etc. on Martial Talk! If you keep this up..... the GoldenDragon is going to be forced to challenge you to a meeting at Won Kok!!!! {at your expense}

:flammad:

Yeah right. You sneak into California, and sneak out, and won't even answer your dam phone. That "sucks."

 

[Doc]

well i cant and wont speak for doc......but id say its a fair guess on my part to say that the concepts he teaches would be applicable no matter what you're studying

I'd like to think you are correct sir. Most that visit me are NOT from Kenpo. Too many egos in Southern Cal or simply happy where they are. Either way, I interact and have helped students and instructors from Penjak Silat, W.A.R., Aikido. Jiujitsu, and Sanuces Ryu on an ongoing basis. Tae Kwon Do, Muey Tai, Bando, Capoeira, Shotokan, and Shorin Ryu, etc as well. I have a gentleman who stops into the school and sits for two night a week while on patrol until he gets a call for the last year, from a well known knife fighting system without fail. All of these have told me they have been helped by my instructioon and sharing of information. The only "Kenpo" visditor I have had has been Robert Temple from the BKF, who in his own words was, "Stunned." I am not looking to "fix" anyone, only share information with those genuinely interested. Through this I not only honor my promise to my teacher, but I maintian the integrity of what I teach with the "science" first and everything, and everyone else, second.

 

[KENPOJOE]

http://www.ackks.com/returning_thunder.avi

At least he has the "pose" down to go with those double bars.

Hi Folks!
I saw this thread go from Red Dragon Martial arts in New Jersey to Santa Clara and now to George Elmer...Since I know Mr. Elmer I felt I should write regarding him and my experiences with him.
I first saw Mr. Elmer on the "sportchannel" or "ESPN" network demonstrating a double stick form at Dominic Gacobee's Taj Mahal Tournament. I remembers the swift dynamic,explosive movements and placed a "mental bookmark" to try to find out who this person was at another date. Later, I would attend the New England UKS kenpo camp in Springfield,Massachusetts,sponsored by Mr. Steve Swereki [sp] featuring Bryan Hawkins,Tommy Burke,Howard Silva,Steven Sears as well as many others. This was the first time that I met george elmer. If you knew me at that time, you knew about my "perm" days [why I would opt to have pseudo "pubic hair" on my head I'll never know! :rofl: ] But,anyways, I watched george as he demonstrated his version of the techniques of ACKKS, Again, I saw him move with explosiveness and power and couldn't help but think for a brief moment "He moves like Mr. Parker..." He had formulated his own techniques based on his primary training in the Tracy and Parker systems, with his own unique slant on the actions with his own unique terminology. Simply stated, the man could do Kenpo and do it well and "make it work"! As he did his various techniques I would explain exactly what he was doing in EPAK terminology and could easily describe the technique and it's application. He told me at the time "Joe, you are the first person that has been able to explain what I do and how I do it!"

Since that time I've been a "twin son of a different mother" to George and helped him out in regards to the ACKKS as a style and organization. I've been asked to detail out techniques and for my opinion and viewpoint on various aspects over the years. It was on my recommendation that Mr. Elmer changed his patch so as to reflect his unique system and elements of the emblem are there throughout the design. The ACKKS crest was designed by Kristi Gualco & myself several years ago. I did this because I knew that the EPAK community would question Mr. Elmer on his art and format. I also mentioned to him that he should alter the sysmbol of HIS tenth in HIS art so as to differenciate himself from the EPAK format of rank, but to make it obvious that it indeed is from that influence and indirectly from that lineage.(as chuck sullivan of the IKCA did] As of that date he has not taken my advice and that is his perogative. American -Chinese Kenpo Karate is its own unique entity in the kenpo world and George Elmer is it's founder and creator. He has created techniques,terminology,sets and forms that are uniquely his creation. He acknowledges his foundation and gives credit to those sources. He has chosen to leave distinct footprint in the kenpo sand & realizes that there are those out there who would rather kick sand at him. ACKKS is a "work in progress" and as such will grow and evolve into it's own. It never ceases to amaze me how people are so free to state who should or shouldn't be a "founder". The basic premise of being a founder is to have "found" their own innovation and be proud enough of their accomplishment and claim it as such. Many times I personally have seen martial artists come up with their unique innovations or different slants on a given art, but give all the credit to someone else whose name is "more respected" or "well known" rather than accept the recognition for their own accomplishment. That is truly sad and it does a disservice to the creator of the idea. George Elmer has the "intestinal and testicular fortitude" to claim ACKKS as his own.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
ACKKS Technical advisor

 

[KENPOJOE]

Big gut, lotsa patches, double red bars, slappy strikes...looks like me, except I don't have patches or double red bars.

Hi Folks!
Alan, you think he wears alot of patches? HA! I am EMBLEM MAN! George is merely patch boy, my not so youthful sidekick! LOL!!!!!!!!
As far as a big bellies go, George is not all that fat in comparison to several individuals including myself, although, I do remember years ago when some low life scumbag created a "KENPOGUT" webpage that had Dennis conatser,George and myself pictured! I would still like to meet this individual to insure he had a lump in his throat that he used to go to the bathroom with!!! As far as the "slappy strikes", I've been hit by george and he can hit with the best and those are more like "Thunderclaps". As far as donning the double bars, that ws his personal decision, not mine.
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[michaeledward]

As an enjoyable aside ... I would like to refer my friends to Todd Weeks ... no doubt an upcoming Grand Poh-bah of all things Martial Arts ...

If you are familiar with ifilm ... ( www.ifilm.com ) ... go exploring to Viral Videos ... Todd Weeks .... Karate Man ..

It's a clever video.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

As an enjoyable aside ... I would like to refer my friends to Todd Weeks ... no doubt an upcoming Grand Poh-bah of all things Martial Arts ...

If you are familiar with ifilm ... ( www.ifilm.com ) ... go exploring to Viral Videos ... Todd Weeks .... Karate Man ..

It's a clever video.

That was um different in an artistic sort of way, but what of the poor kitty cats?

 

[KENPOJOE]

Now, keeping in mind my own background had some skeletons in the closet...

It's all about the red bars. Too many guys in kenpo walking around wearing the same rank Parker wore in his last days with us. Only a handful of men have the background to wear them...years of close training and relationship with the founder of American Kenpo. Even among the closest disciples, there are some who won't approach wearing a 10th. Like Clyde said once...if you're doing your own thing, wear your own thing. Wearing the Parker kenpo indicators places your self with Parker. Far cry.

Regards,

Dave

Hi Folks!
Dear Dave,
In regards to the "double bar" issue, if you research EPAK history, you'll find that the whole "bar" aspect was a fairly recent innovation that was initially a black belt thesis recomendation! I believe it was Tom Riskas, not Tom Kelly, who recommended the use of the bar as opposed to the 5 individual stripes and also recomended the use of the "titles" for each rank [junior instructor,etc...] and Mr Parker started wearing it at late 8th,early 9th degree, as well as impliment it in writing in the infinite insights series [circa 1980]. George Elmer is doing doing as clyde and others mention and "doing their own thing" with techniques,patches,etc...
I do not know if you knew Mr. Parker personally, but those who did and continue to teach his system or a slight variant because of their preferences are worthy to wear the tenth and history will applaud them or condemn them for that act. I remember when the IKKA officially recided to "retire" the tenth degree black belt and the title of "senior grandmaster of the martial arts" [a title Mr. Parker never used during his life], now, a decade and a half after Mr. Parker's death, there are several people that now wear the tenth and rightfully so! Those who know "who's who in the zoo" easily can tell you who they are, as well as those who are considered the "what the ..." folks.
As far as I know, George makes no delusions about trying to be "the next ed parker", he's just working on being himself.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[BlackCatBonz]

back onto the subject of this video........on this guys website he states that he is a "nidan" in american kenpo under bruce corrigan.
what happened here?

 

[Doc]

Hi Folks!
I saw this thread go from Red Dragon Martial arts in New Jersey to Santa Clara and now to George Elmer...Since I know Mr. Elmer I felt I should write regarding him and my experiences with him.
I first saw Mr. Elmer on the "sportchannel" or "ESPN" network demonstrating a double stick form at Dominic Gacobee's Taj Mahal Tournament. I remembers the swift dynamic,explosive movements and placed a "mental bookmark" to try to find out who this person was at another date. Later, I would attend the New England UKS kenpo camp in Springfield,Massachusetts,sponsored by Mr. Steve Swereki [sp] featuring Bryan Hawkins,Tommy Burke,Howard Silva,Steven Sears as well as many others. This was the first time that I met george elmer. If you knew me at that time, you knew about my "perm" days [why I would opt to have pseudo "pubic hair" on my head I'll never know! :rofl: ] But,anyways, I watched george as he demonstrated his version of the techniques of ACKKS, Again, I saw him move with explosiveness and power and couldn't help but think for a brief moment "He moves like Mr. Parker..." He had formulated his own techniques based on his primary training in the Tracy and Parker systems, with his own unique slant on the actions with his own unique terminology. Simply stated, the man could do Kenpo and do it well and "make it work"! As he did his various techniques I would explain exactly what he was doing in EPAK terminology and could easily describe the technique and it's application. He told me at the time "Joe, you are the first person that has been able to explain what I do and how I do it!"

Since that time I've been a "twin son of a different mother" to George and helped him out in regards to the ACKKS as a style and organization. I've been asked to detail out techniques and for my opinion and viewpoint on various aspects over the years. It was on my recommendation that Mr. Elmer changed his patch so as to reflect his unique system and elements of the emblem are there throughout the design. The ACKKS crest was designed by Kristi Gualco & myself several years ago. I did this because I knew that the EPAK community would question Mr. Elmer on his art and format. I also mentioned to him that he should alter the sysmbol of HIS tenth in HIS art so as to differenciate himself from the EPAK format of rank, but to make it obvious that it indeed is from that influence and indirectly from that lineage.(as chuck sullivan of the IKCA did] As of that date he has not taken my advice and that is his perogative. American -Chinese Kenpo Karate is its own unique entity in the kenpo world and George Elmer is it's founder and creator. He has created techniques,terminology,sets and forms that are uniquely his creation. He acknowledges his foundation and gives credit to those sources. He has chosen to leave distinct footprint in the kenpo sand & realizes that there are those out there who would rather kick sand at him. ACKKS is a "work in progress" and as such will grow and evolve into it's own. It never ceases to amaze me how people are so free to state who should or shouldn't be a "founder". The basic premise of being a founder is to have "found" their own innovation and be proud enough of their accomplishment and claim it as such. Many times I personally have seen martial artists come up with their unique innovations or different slants on a given art, but give all the credit to someone else whose name is "more respected" or "well known" rather than accept the recognition for their own accomplishment. That is truly sad and it does a disservice to the creator of the idea. George Elmer has the "intestinal and testicular fortitude" to claim ACKKS as his own.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
ACKKS Technical advisor

Well, considering you posted your lengthy endorsement under my quote for reasons unknown; for the record, I stand by my comment and what I meant it to be and further, I tend to formulate my own opinion about people in the arts exclusive of what you think and Mr. Elmer knows that and he also knows what I meant. I also stand by my comment that Tom Kelly envisioned and talked Mr. Parker into the 5th degree bar. Also for the record, no, you were not of some service.

 

[KENPOJOE]

Well, considering you posted your lengthy endorsement under my quote for reasons unknown; for the record, I stand by my comment and what I meant it to be and further, I tend to formulate my own opinion about people in the arts exclusive of what you think and Mr. Elmer knows that and he also knows what I meant. I also stand by my comment that Tom Kelly envisioned and talked Mr. Parker into the 5th degree bar. Also for the record, no, you were not of some service.

Dear Doc,
I posted the general reply regarding the thread only because you posted the link to Mr. Elmer's video and It's difficult to post every response on this thread in one post by quoting all the replies. If you take that as a personal affront it was not intended as one. I've read your posts and stand by the right that you are a wealth of information and a credit to the futher development of EPAK as a whole. You're certainly entitled to your opinion and agree with your right to do so, just as it is my right to have my opinions as well. But it is our "privilage" to be able to post on this board and I will always appreciate that privilage. As far as my not being of some service, well, that's your opinion.
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[Goldendragon7]

Yeah right. You sneak into California, and sneak out, and won't even answer your dam phone. That "sucks."

Hey! I apologized for that a while back! :asian: LOL .. :idunno: give me a break!

 

[MJS]

Lets try to return to the topic of the thread..Kenpo technique video clips. We can start a seperate thread for the discussion of rank in American Kenpo.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[dogboy]

I personally know Bruce Corrigan, and I remember this guy when he visited Bruce in Virginia around 1994 or so. He joined an association that Bruce headed up - and was issued a certificate of recognition in American Kenpo because that is what the guy claimed he was a Black Belt in. Bruce doesn't even teach American Kenpo. SHortly thereafter, Bruce stopped association with the organization because he saw what was happening with people like this. All you have to do is read the website, and you will see this guy is a collector who probably has never trained consistently with one single person for more than a few months. The rest of his stuff looks as bad as the Kenpo.

 

[The Kai]

todd, i think you're missing the point. any sound principle is applicable to any art. you seem to want things in a tidy little package. in an earlier post you mentioned kicking......do people not kick in kempo?
i realize that the purpose of the techniques is to have a tidy package of technical movements, but their purpose is designed to teach the underlying principles, which should be applicable to any movement, whether you're studying judo, kempo, karate etc.

While the underlying principles are the same, say the Fitting motion, it is done differently and for different reason between arts like Judo and Karate. So in a sense your are not transcending style but defining style

 

[Doc]

While the underlying principles are the same, say the Fitting motion, it is done differently and for different reason between arts like Judo and Karate. So in a sense your are not transcending style but defining style

If I may sir - I agree with you with the exception that I might say, "In a sense you are not transcending ARTS, but defining style." What do you think?

 

[Bill Lear]

"if i was in a boat and i fell overboard and i only just learned how to swim, and a couple you guys were there would some one jump in and save me / help me??"

That would depend on...

A. Do I have something to pull you out of the water with?

B. Do I know how to swim? :uhohh:

C. Are there sharks in the water? :anic:

D. Do I like you enough to wanna risk my life saving you? :idunno:

 

[BlackCatBonz]

If I may sir - I agree with you with the exception that I might say, "In a sense you are not transcending ARTS, but defining style." What do you think?

doc, the reason i stated that the principles transcend style is simply because any sound principle should be applicable to any style.
i guess maybe i have a much simpler outlook than others, because to me walking is walking.
i think the movements define the style. but no matter how hard you try, you cant change physics.

 

[Doc]

doc, the reason i stated that the principles transcend style is simply because any sound principle should be applicable to any style.
i guess maybe i have a much simpler outlook than others, because to me walking is walking.
i think the movements define the style. but no matter how hard you try, you cant change physics.

Agreed. My problem is most give lip service to the thngs you speak of, but have no idea in reality how to achieve same.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Agreed. My problem is most give lip service to the thngs you speak of, but have no idea in reality how to achieve same.

i totally agree with you there