Kenpo technique video clips. Any comments?

[The Kai]

I don't think your gonna want to get to technical on him

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Well Dave i think that would be better to say to some others,but if you go to my site then you will see what i'm about, and look at this whe Mr Parker
was still here it was not like it is today, but i don't see anyone saying anything about what the rest of Parkers right hand men,and what they did when he died,
and i want to say this i teach" American chinese kenpo" yes i know Parker kenpo, but i don't give rank in AK,only ackks. now who was the frist one to put the double bars on when Mr Parker passed ?? mmmm now who could that be?

For the record, I have been a vocal critic of the behavior of many of Mr. Parker's top guys after his passing. I have stated in the past quite clearly that I thought the behavior of several seniors was shameful, bothering Mrs. Parker to name them the next big cheese before the news of Mr. Parkers dance to the next life had even been made public. Many, upon NOT recieving blessings from the family to be the next "King", self-appointed themselves Monarch and started their own organizations to support their claims. Much of this done even before services were held. Many guys jumped from 4th to 8th, 9th, or 10th, with nothing in between but opportunity for self-advancement.

Their behavior was shameful. Using theirs to justify yours lacks honor at best.

I support each man in doing what floats his boat. The problem I have is with how you've elected to indicate rank/position within your respective organization. The double bars have been the Parker's Kenpo designation for 10th degree black for decades; indicators no other system used prior to Parker. There are a few who wear the red today who were long-time associates of Parker, some on good terms; some on uneven terms. In my mind, when you put on the bars, you are saying you are on par with not only Parker, but the senior 1st generation professors who came after, and wear the bars: Tatum, Planas, etc. Balls to do this, considering there are several 1st gen seniors who still refuse to wear them, and know significantly more about Parker kenpo in it's various incarnations than you will likely ever. Mr. Chapel wears a plain old black belt with no fancy colorations. The last couple of times I saw Mr. White, he was wearing a plain old black belt with no colors on it. The people who need to know who they are, do. Nobody else really matters.

Wearing double bars says to the world that you are on the same knowledge and skill playing field as the Parker's, Chapels, Whites, Tatums, Palanzo's, Trejos' & Planas' of the world, and from what I've seen of the videos on your website, it ain't so.

What I'm saying is basically this: If you want to teach ACKKS as a 10th founder in ACKKS, then design your own indicator of that status, instead of copying one that has an established meaning for a worldwide comunity. Wear a red belt. Wear a red & white or black paneled belt. Wear a gold belt with your name and phone number on it. But, out of respect for the men who were there in the trenches with the founder of kenpo in the US as its mostly known today, hold off on the red bars. Seniors who were with him before I was born in 1965 don't even do it out of respect for the man and his memory.

My opinion; you can take it or leave it.

Regards,

Dave Crouch, DC

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

For the record, I have been a vocal critic of the behavior of many of Mr. Parker's top guys after his passing. I have stated in the past quite clearly that I thought the behavior of several seniors was shameful, bothering Mrs. Parker to name them the next big cheese before the news of Mr. Parkers dance to the next life had even been made public. Many, upon NOT recieving blessings from the family to be the next "King", self-appointed themselves Monarch and started their own organizations to support their claims. Much of this done even before services were held. Many guys jumped from 4th to 8th, 9th, or 10th, with nothing in between but opportunity for self-advancement.

Their behavior was shameful. Using theirs to justify yours lacks honor at best.

I support each man in doing what floats his boat. The problem I have is with how you've elected to indicate rank/position within your respective organization. The double bars have been the Parker's Kenpo designation for 10th degree black for decades; indicators no other system used prior to Parker. There are a few who wear the red today who were long-time associates of Parker, some on good terms; some on uneven terms. In my mind, when you put on the bars, you are saying you are on par with not only Parker, but the senior 1st generation professors who came after, and wear the bars: Tatum, Planas, etc. Balls to do this, considering there are several 1st gen seniors who still refuse to wear them, and know significantly more about Parker kenpo in it's various incarnations than you will likely ever. Mr. Chapel wears a plain old black belt with no fancy colorations. The last couple of times I saw Mr. White, he was wearing a plain old black belt with no colors on it. The people who need to know who they are, do. Nobody else really matters.

Wearing double bars says to the world that you are on the same knowledge and skill playing field as the Parker's, Chapels, Whites, Tatums, Palanzo's, Trejos' & Planas' of the world, and from what I've seen of the videos on your website, it ain't so.

What I'm saying is basically this: If you want to teach ACKKS as a 10th founder in ACKKS, then design your own indicator of that status, instead of copying one that has an established meaning for a worldwide comunity. Wear a red belt. Wear a red & white or black paneled belt. Wear a gold belt with your name and phone number on it. But, out of respect for the men who were there in the trenches with the founder of kenpo in the US as its mostly known today, hold off on the red bars. Seniors who were with him before I was born in 1965 don't even do it out of respect for the man and his memory.

My opinion; you can take it or leave it.

Regards,

Dave Crouch, DC

C'mon Dave: All those other belts have meanings in other styles as well. And there are plenty of Kenpo/Kempo folks in lots of associations with 10th degrees wearing double red bars, red belts, plain black belts, lotsa red stripes, lotsa white stripes, gold borders, black borders, etc..

George has his own Kenpo curriculum and in America anybody can wear any belt they want.

It is up to the uninitiated and uninformed American consumer to exercise their G_d-given responsibility of Caveat Emptor when undertaking any course of instruction in our wonderful unregulated industry.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Yet the higher in rank you are the more signitures you have.
A shotokan looks more like a Shotokan stylist
A Kenpo man looks more Kenpo
Etc
Each system has its own take on basics, presentation of techniques
Allthough a high ranking Kenpoist might incorporate throws into his system he will perform, enter into and finish like a Kenpo Guy not so much a Judo Guy. Sure there will be similiarities in postures. by the same token there are similarties between a Airplane and a car!
BTW the techine in the red dragon video still suck

hey todd
what i am basically saying has nothing to do with what the guy looks like when he is practicing his art. it has everything to do with the fact that no matter what style you practice, this person can offer you something because of his vast knowledge. if that wasnt the case, people wouldnt be so curious to go and participate in seminars that these people hold. oftentimes a lot of these guys that have been martial artists for 35 or 40 years pick up stuff off of each other, and they are able to do it because as they get older their egos shrink (im not saying this is true of everyone).

 

[Doc]

Yet the higher in rank you are the more signitures you have.
A shotokan looks more like a Shotokan stylist
A Kenpo man looks more Kenpo
Etc
Each system has its own take on basics, presentation of techniques
Allthough a high ranking Kenpoist might incorporate throws into his system he will perform, enter into and finish like a Kenpo Guy not so much a Judo Guy. Sure there will be similiarities in postures. by the same token there are similarties between a Airplane and a car!
BTW the techine in the red dragon video still suck

I'm sorry but I believe the expression "SUCK" is my defacto copyright on MartialTalk, however if you use it in proper context - you may continue to utilize it.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

C'mon Dave: All those other belts have meanings in other styles as well. And there are plenty of Kenpo/Kempo folks in lots of associations with 10th degrees wearing double red bars, red belts, plain black belts, lotsa red stripes, lotsa white stripes, gold borders, black borders, etc..

George has his own Kenpo curriculum and in America anybody can wear any belt they want.

It is up to the uninitiated and uninformed American consumer to exercise their G_d-given responsibility of Caveat Emptor when undertaking any course of instruction in our wonderful unregulated industry.

You know, I'm usually with you on things Alan. This on, though...

Just cuz some guys pee in the pool, doesn't mean every Tom, Dick & Harry with a full bladder should avoid taking themselves out of the water and visiting the mens room.

I got me a 5th in CK, then worked with a bunch of guys from different kenpo sub-systems, BJJ, and some other things to put together an eclectic training program. Teaching my own thing, I still didn't go out and throw on a coupla bars. The black belts for the system had the name of the style written on them in red. The core team of co-developers had the same thing written on thiers, but in gold...our gift to our ego's to seperate us from the guys we taught. That's it. Writing. Why? Because bars would have communicated to the surrounding world that I held myself as an equal to the clever Hawaiian who started this whole movment. Not only would I not go there out of respect for the memory and life work of the man, I would like to think that the guys in my area who ARE near or at that level would have called me to task over it and beaten the crap outta me. That's how business used to be done.

But then again, maybe I'm just an old-fashioned romantic.

Regards,

Dave

 

[rmcrobertson]

I dunno--makes sense to me.

But then, I never understood why people would bother to lie in the first place--quite frankly, some of those who pull this stuff seem more than impressive enough for my taste, without all the fantasy.

 

[lonekimono10]

I don't know guy's everyone wants to talk about what the person has around his/her gi, peeing in a pool?? and tom, dick, and Harry (i went to school with them) LOL but anyway people will always have somethig to say about this person, that person,thats why when we go to a camp you don't see the UNDER BELTS hanging with the Blackbelts (unless family) .
It seems to me that the young people in the arts have something to say about peoples rank(and some young Blackbelts VERY YOUNG Blackbelts)
now thats something that should be adressed, but i don't see anyone having
a ***** about that??people say "oh look little joey got his blackbelt," but little joey is only 7 years old, whats up with that??no, no, people say thats ok but then they talk about the person who wears a 8th, 9th AND 10th
hope i made the point, now i have to go pee in my pool.

 

[The Kai]

1.) say all martial artists simply because when one has such a high level of skill, their teaching usually transcends stylistic boundries and offers all students something of substance to learn in their personal art.

2.)what i am basically saying has nothing to do with what the guy looks like when he is practicing his art. it has everything to do with the fact that no matter what style you practice, this person can offer you something because of his vast knowledge

Shawn
While I am in complete agreement about the second point, the first point I would still dispute. While a JudoKa might punch, he would strike differently for different reasons and of varing targets from that of say a Kenpo man

 

[BlackCatBonz]

hi todd
sure there might be differences in the way a judoka strikes in comparison to kempoka. but understanding the differences and seeing the way they might appraoch a situation is exactly the reason you would look at it. the only reason people refuse or hesitate to incorporate new knowledge is ego and comfort level.
doc has said that he has had his share of skeptics in his class and invites people to ask questions or put what he does to the test to find out for themselves. the people that discount it altogether are the ones who arent able to accept something outside of their comfort zone, its easier to pretend its not there rather than deal with it.
just like in medicine, there are many ways to skin a cat, or treat disease. all approaches do not work on all people, but there are a few proven ones that do work on all people.
i also stated that the person would be able to offer something of substance to apply to their "personal" art. while a person might study kempo or karate, it isnt exactly the same as another guy learning at the same school.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

I don't know guy's everyone wants to talk about what the person has around his/her gi, peeing in a pool?? and tom, dick, and Harry (i went to school with them) LOL 1. but anyway people will always have somethig to say about this person, that person,thats why when we go to a camp you don't see the UNDER BELTS hanging with the Blackbelts (unless family) .
It seems to me that the young people in the arts have something to say about peoples rank(and some young Blackbelts VERY YOUNG Blackbelts)
now thats something that should be adressed, but i don't see anyone having
a ***** about that??2. people say "oh look little joey got his blackbelt," but little joey is only 7 years old, whats up with that??no, no, people say thats ok but then they talk about the person who wears a 8th, 9th AND 10th
hope i made the point, now i have to go pee in my pool.

1. i think that a lot of people that have black belts and especially the ones that have high ranking black belts have egos that are way out of control. thats why the "underbelts" dont hang with them.......they make themselves unapproachable like they are a freaking rockstar. most guys on the street couldnt give a rats behind about someones martial art ranking, and will treat you like they would treat anyone else. as soon as the gi and belt come out, some guys want all kinds of respect bestowed upon them. i dont know if johnny 10th dan has acheived that rank legitimately, or just decided to wear it when he started quack-fu. you can ususally pick out those guys though......they are the ones walking around with their chests all puffed out thinking they are the shiznit. i dont think people should be worried about voicing an opinion, and they shouldnt have to worry if all things need to be settled on the mat. if you are a 10th dan, you should be the most approachable guy in a place, because you are advertising that you pretty much have all the tools.

2. i think people are laughing at the teacher that gave little joey his blackbelt. its obvious this teacher doesnt know squat, and if the teacher that gave little joey his shodan is an 8th, 9th, or 10th, people should be talking about him.....saying stay far away.

face it....people are opinionated. the frauds know who they are and some of them make a good buck at it.
i couldnt care less if i ever get above a shodan, the only person it should matter to is me........ive been wearing the same belt for the last 6 years and will probably continue to wear it if my gut allows it.

 

[The Kai]

.) say all martial artists simply because when one has such a high level of skill, their teaching usually transcends stylistic boundries and offers all students something of substance to learn in their personal art.
I'm sorry I understood your first post to have the all arts become one thingy, not so much all arts can learn from each other. Inso far as many ways to skin a cat, you are still skinning a cat. There are many ways to do kenpo, you are still doing kenpo-not joda, aikido or kung fu
So, doc is in a class (no offense to doc, but your name was cited)-he is running a vigerous program relating sl4 concepts. A young Tae kwon Do Black Belt demonstraates a jumping kick. Is it egitistical to say SL4 concepts have nothing to do with Jump kicks?

 

[BlackCatBonz]

well i cant and wont speak for doc......but id say its a fair guess on my part to say that the concepts he teaches would be applicable no matter what you're studying

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

You know, I'm usually with you on things Alan. This on, though...

Just cuz some guys pee in the pool, doesn't mean every Tom, Dick & Harry with a full bladder should avoid taking themselves out of the water and visiting the mens room.

I got me a 5th in CK, then worked with a bunch of guys from different kenpo sub-systems, BJJ, and some other things to put together an eclectic training program. Teaching my own thing, I still didn't go out and throw on a coupla bars. The black belts for the system had the name of the style written on them in red. The core team of co-developers had the same thing written on thiers, but in gold...our gift to our ego's to seperate us from the guys we taught. That's it. Writing. Why? Because bars would have communicated to the surrounding world that I held myself as an equal to the clever Hawaiian who started this whole movment. Not only would I not go there out of respect for the memory and life work of the man, I would like to think that the guys in my area who ARE near or at that level would have called me to task over it and beaten the crap outta me. That's how business used to be done.

But then again, maybe I'm just an old-fashioned romantic.

Regards,

Dave

You know, I do agree with you. I think the whole concept of advanced rank in Kenpo is way out of control. But, I treasure the freedom we have as Americans to engage in all sorts of puffery.

 

[The Kai]

well i cant and wont speak for doc......but id say its a fair guess on my part to say that the concepts he teaches would be applicable no matter what you're studying

Sure but they would be most appliciable and most effective studying SL4. Given enough time and enough force I could force a round peg into a square hole

 

[Goldendragon7]

I'm sorry but I believe the expression "SUCK" is my defacto copyright on MartialTalk, however if you use it in proper context - you may continue to utilize it.

Now you are starting to upset me, with all your claiming of "copyrights and exclusivity's" of rants etc. on Martial Talk! If you keep this up..... the GoldenDragon is going to be forced to challenge you to a meeting at Won Kok!!!! {at your expense}

:flammad:

 

[rmcrobertson]

OK, that's it. I'm trademarking Intellectual Pomposity.

From now on, nobody but me is allowed to cite Freud and medieval literature when we're discussing inward blocks. Without a low-priced licensing agreement, that is.

 

[The Kai]

That's just your Id talking!

 

[Goldendragon7]

I support each man in doing what floats his boat. The problem I have is with how you've elected to indicate rank/position within your respective organization.

The double bars have been the Parker's Kenpo designation for 10th degree black for decades (actually a Tom Kelly suggestion); indicators no other system used prior to Parker.


There are a few who wear the red today who are saying you are on par with not only Parker, but the senior 1st generation professors who came after.

Several 1st generation seniors still refuse to wear them, and know significantly more about Parker kenpo in it's various incarnations than you will likely ever.

Mr. Chapel wears a plain old black belt with no fancy colorations (actually wears rank on his uniform lapel). Mr. White, ususlly teaches wearing a plain old black belt with no colors on it (he does wear his 9th for offical functions and seminars). These people know who they are.

Wearing double bars says to the world that you are on the same knowledge and skill playing field as the Parker's, Chapels, Whites, Tatums, Palanzo's, Trejos' & Planas' of the world.

I'm saying basically this, If you want to teach whatever material you want to as a 10th Founder, then design your own indicator of that status, instead of copying one that has an established meaning for a worldwide comunity.

Wear a red belt, wear a red & white belt, wear a black paneled belt, wear a gold belt with your name and phone number on it, but out of respect for the men who were there in the trenches with the founder of kenpo in the US as its mostly known today, hold off on the double red bars.

Seniors who were with him before I was born in 1965 don't even do it out of respect for the man and his memory.

My opinion; you can take it or leave it. Regards, Dave Crouch, DC

Agreed
:asian:

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Sure but they would be most appliciable and most effective studying SL4. Given enough time and enough force I could force a round peg into a square hole

todd, i think you're missing the point. any sound principle is applicable to any art. you seem to want things in a tidy little package. in an earlier post you mentioned kicking......do people not kick in kempo?
i realize that the purpose of the techniques is to have a tidy package of technical movements, but their purpose is designed to teach the underlying principles, which should be applicable to any movement, whether you're studying judo, kempo, karate etc.