OP
- Thread Starter
- #41
I think "blunt" is good...and I am sorry you're in somewhat of a foul mood today.With that being said? Allow me a similarly direct reply:
The moment you said that you saw nothing of value in Royce's or by extension Rickson's grappling skills visavis self-defense and said that they're wholly removed in essence from actual self-defense? You made your position absolutely clear. Because your position is wholly the opposite of people like military specialists and warriors and special operatives in law enforcement in others the world over.Clearly,you have a position that is directly contrary to the U.S. Border Patrol,Special Forces, Delta and Navy Seal Operators and uniformed personnel in every branch of our military: US Army, US Air Force, US Marine Corps and US Coast Guard. In January 2002, the U.S. Army officially adopted Gracie Jiu-Jitsu as its foundation for hand-to-hand combat with the publication of a manual based almost entirely on the original program designed by Rorion Gracie.
http://gracieacademy.com/military.asp
So Chris,your opinion differs from some of the most lethal and experienced and seasoned real world practitioners of the very same SD and faaaarrr worse SD than you will ever eeeever face in your life.But the great thing is that not only can your opinion differ from theirs? That's your RIGHT and I respect your right to do so.Whether your opinion has a more airtight combat foundation or whether its anywhere near as valid under the circumstances that these elite warriors and law enforcement units find themselves operating and facing real intense issues is another matter entirely.
Your grasp of martial arts history is similarly suspect. Every army the world over practiced martial arts. The SPIRITUAL AND PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT ASPECTS became more pronounced with civilian martial arts training,aaaannnd the desire of various governments to remain in power conflicting with (at times) various civilian or nongovernmental groups wishing to maintain their liberty also profoundly affected the nongovernmental martial arts. I strongly suspect that the capoeiristas who defied Brazil and Portugal to such an extent that the Portuguese government entered negotiations with them about rewarding them specific autonomy similar to what the Native Americans and Amish (to a lesser degree) enjoy here in the USA would find your contentions laughable.The Shaolin Monastery warriors might find a guffaw or five to be had from your position too. The mavya--(who are the Indians who inherited some African martial arts once they travelled from Africa to India)--who are the "boxers" who gave rise to the word "mavya" which in turn is the ancient root for the word Muay (as in Muay Boran,Muay Thai,etc) along with the Muay Boran and Krabi Kabong warriors might find themselves joining in to chortle.The moro moros who came from many regions including India to what is now the Phillipines,combined their martial arts into what later became known as Kali might join in for a knee slapping yukk or two.
Martial arts came from war.The martial arts survived because they worked in war.They went through various refinements and sometimes were tragically lost as they entered the civilian realm...but all of them work for self defense.And all of them had to refine,develope,and adapt--that is to say functionally innovate--in order to be crafted in the first place and survive until the present day.Furthermore,your definition of chuan fa is faulty. chaun fa literally means MOUNTAIN FIST,and WUSHU means MILITARY ART or its rough equivalent.And to be clear? "fist method" is ALSO a MARTIAL ART. While we're on the subject,as far as boxing is concerned? I think that the Greeks and ancient Africans would have a word or two to say about that.
It seems as if you're making the classic mistake that many of the most ardent practitioners of what they think is RBSD make: they conflate athletic attributes with sport performance.They seem to be wholly unaware of the overwhelming fact and thousands of years of legendary history proclaiming the overwhelming imminence of high performance self-defense athletics. Whic segues into the following point: yes I know that my athletic ability oftentimes isn't something that my students share.I don't train them assuming that their clones of me.My response to you was more specific: you indicated that you would have succeeded in knifing me. I doubt that you would do such a thing,as I doubt that you have the experience skill and attributes to pull it off against me as most people don't have the requisite mix.That again is not arrogance on my part,as I could be wrong...but based upon what you just posted? Your (imo) horriffic misassessment of the Gracie's self-defense skill? Your highly flawed recollection of martial history? I gain confidence in my previous assessment being accurate.Btw,the speeds I gave are Olympic calibur elite and the fact that you've never been on the receiving end of an iaido sensei's draw speaks soooo many volumes about what you've NOT faced that I won't get into it.Suffice it to say that you've done soooo much damage to your previous contentions that now your position would have to be infinitely more sturdy than it currently is to UPGRADE to the condition of post-atomic Nagasaki.
And I'll go so far as to say that this is simply a case of people jumping on the bandwagon. 1993, you rarely saw any MA school teaching grappling/MMA/BJJ. Today....everyone offers it. Hell, I was on FB today, as saw a Bujinkan Ninjutsu guy teaching Marines. Yes, I've seen shows in which the military is doing grappling. Yes, this is important, but like I said, its merely the flavor of the month. Watch...when something 'new' comes out, everyone will put their old toys away in favor of the new ones. Amazing how many people make the claim of teaching military. Funny, because you'd figure that each respective branch would be doing the same thing, ie: Every Marine, anywhere in the US would be doing BJJ, yet you see JKD guys say they teach Marines, Ninjutsu guys saying it, everyone says it. Its all about marketing and Rorion is the king of marketing...LOL.
Regarding the grip...which to me is the main point...we partially agree. Basically you say that we should always enter with your recommended method. I disagree but I strongly agree that the variant that you propose is highly functional and desirable,as I use it myself.I don't think that my method is a desperation method and those persons who utilize my method--something which you acknowledge that you don't do--also agree.Recall...for clarity's sake...that my method encompasses yours,not the other way around. I have,in essence,twice the arsenal that you do and the videos that I've shown prove beyond a doubt that the approach works. Now you may not PREFER my approach,but IT'S FUNCTIONALITY is BEYOND DISPUTE. The special units,the highly skilled specialized practitioners,etc. use it daily against top flight full tilt boogie resistance...which is true and cool to say,but my own experience with it wholly guts your position.And since you don't use my method (which let us not forget also encompasses yours)? You're not in a position to offer from experience what it does and doesn't do; you offer an opinion which isn't girded by mat or street experience or both,whereas mine has all of them.And that's cool man. We can agree to disagree on that point and still be amicable towards one another. BUT...and here's a big "but"...I think that a person who has positions as strongly and articulately held as yours should be able to step up to the plate as it were and put his knife skills where his mouth (er,POSTS) are and show us the real deal. Or at least YOUR real deal.You're able to make direct empirical statements about my movements and draw opinions and inferences--however much I may agree or disagree with them,however much they may vary from or be in accordance with reality---because I put myself out there to be seen.Frankly I have the skill will resources and nuts to step up. When making points as insistent as yours are,sir,it would be much to your and our benefit for you to step up like I did. Put your knife where your mouth is. For instance...my position is that one of the major reasons to NOT do as you recommend in the way that you recommend is that you wholly ignore the almost 100% certainty that you'll get knocked and clocked by the other limb.In the S.T.A.B. video,this reality is repeatedly shown. My version provides a plethora of easy go-to (flow to) techs that happen organically very quickly and very effectively--including the one and only method that you champion--addresses the attacker(s) other limbs and deals with them. Have you fought a guy with a bottle,disarmed him,dealt with him,had his buddy rush you,dealt with him,and then dealt with his other homeboy who was rockin a bottle,disarmed him--only to have him pull a knife in the midst of you disarming his bottle? I have? I've had the same experience with an inebriated WOMAN. She took a swing with her bottle,I disarm her...ZING. Out comes the knife.And women tend to SLASH not STAB.Your inflexible method would get me you and others hurt and/or killed under those circumstance if we did as you recommended.Imo at any rate.My techs "win" under those circumstances,that's why I'm still here to post about it.
Like I said, each of the methods has its place. Of course, as I said, I think its also important to take into consideration, the size of the person. The guy in your clip, was, IMO, about your height, but clearly, you seem stronger. Were the bad guy, someone who was taller and stronger than you, it may not be as easy to move the guy, like you were in the clip.
No disrespect intended Ras. I think its safe to say that you and I have engaged in many good discussions, and are, for the most part, on the same page, when it comes to the way we train. Just throwing some other variables into the mix.