"karate is back!"

[Daniel Sullivan]

I just mean it's a contest with rules, a ring, gloves, a cup, a mouthpiece, a referee, time constraints, a mat, etc. None of that is in a a real fight. If there is an athletic contest out there that is close to a real fight it is definitely MMA. People get broken bones in football, too. That doesn't make it a fight. If you really read my earlier post you will see respect is given to all.

Technically, it is a fight. It just is not a street fight or the same as true self defense (admitting that there is a good deal of crossover with regards to specific techniques).

Football does not qualify as a fight. The goal in MMA is to KO, submit, or out fight your opponent and win on points or by decision or whatever they call it in MMA. All of the skills used are specifically fighting skills. All skills in football are geared towards the movement of the ball; either facilitating it or preventing it. The fact that it is physically demanding is about the only commonality that it has with MMA.

Daniel

 

[sempai little1]

I'm new here and I will admit I didn't read all the posts (there is just too much to catch up on).
But I am going to toss my two cents in anyway.
Karate and continuous may not be street fighting but the basic applications are there. I have been lucky enough to compete at a high level in both styles of fighting.....and it kinda hurt. .
But when I was confronted on the street my skills that I trained in the dojo came in pretty darn handy. I had control and did only what needed to be done in the situation to make the ..... (insert your choice of word here) back away.
I think the only real difference between street fighting and "traditional" fighting is the respect level for your opponent and the control over your abilities and emotions.
"traditional" fighters, I think, could make great street fighters.
That being said, I have been training in Karate for several years and would not suggest someone with out proper training test my theory.
Remember I'm new here so be kind to me if you disagree. You can be mean when I figure you guys out. Then we can drop the gloves. (I say confidently sitting behind my computer screen.
Your friend,
Sempai Little1:wavey:

 

[Silentwarrior702]

I'm new here and I will admit I didn't read all the posts (there is just too much to catch up on).
But I am going to toss my two cents in anyway.
Karate and continuous may not be street fighting but the basic applications are there. I have been lucky enough to compete at a high level in both styles of fighting.....and it kinda hurt. .
But when I was confronted on the street my skills that I trained in the dojo came in pretty darn handy. I had control and did only what needed to be done in the situation to make the ..... (insert your choice of word here) back away.
I think the only real difference between street fighting and "traditional" fighting is the respect level for your opponent and the control over your abilities and emotions.
"traditional" fighters, I think, could make great street fighters.
That being said, I have been training in Karate for several years and would not suggest someone with out proper training test my theory.
Remember I'm new here so be kind to me if you disagree. You can be mean when I figure you guys out. Then we can drop the gloves. (I say confidently sitting behind my computer screen.
Your friend,
Sempai Little1:wavey:

I never said anything about streetfighting or traditional fighters being able to make great street fighters. I was talking about how it is able to work in MMA. MMA is a sport there are set rules so it is not a street fight.

 

[Tez3]

Tez, I'm usually right there with you in all things MMA, but I think that trying to tie modern MMA to pancrase is tenuous. While the idea of fighting at multiple ranges in competition isn't new, modern MMA is a relatively well defined ruleset that... yes... started with the UFC.

It was in the early 2000's when the UFC applied to the Nevada Gaming Commission to hold a sanctioned event and it was approved using rules that had been developed loosely in, IIRC, New Jersey. These rules and this sanctioned event SAVED MMA as a sport. And, like it or not, the Ultimate Fighter as a reality series on free TV, was largely responsible for the strong international growth of the sport in it's modern form.

I know that there were organizations like Pride and the Pancrase events, as well as Vale Tudo outside of the USA, but if we're talking about the modern sport of MMA, we're talking about the UFC and the smaller promotions attempting to either compete with (and failing) or share in the popularity of the sport. King of the Cage, Pre-Zuffa WEC, Pride, K1 etc are making money largely because of the UFC.

Now, I'm not saying MMA was invented by the UFC. What I am saying is that MMA came about as a financially viable, well defined sport when the UFC applied for and was granted licensing in the state of Nevada to hold the first sanctioned event.

This is all from memory, so if I've got things mixed up, please let me know.

Am pretty sure I wasn't tying MMA to pancrase, I didn't mention it!
My point was that MMA doesn't equal UFC, there were MMA fights in Brazil before UFC and we had some early ones as well. UFC did the hyping up of it.

 

[jarrod]

i think it might be useful to point out the difference between MMA & vale tudo/NHB. early UFC was an NHB promotion, which gradually evolved into MMA in order to gain sanctioning. while the UFC isn't my favorite promotion, they did start modern MMA.

jf

 

[Domino]

I was happy to see Machida obtain his victory over Rashad Evans last night. I hope this will open the door for more traditional arts to get into MMA and do well. It's been far too long that traditional arts have been downgraded in the sport of MMA. Now we have four champion fighters in the sport which are doing extremley well. Those being Machida (Shotokan Karate),George Saint Pierre (Kyushokin Ki Karate), Anderson Silva (Muay Thai) and the phenomenol Cung Li (San Shao Kung Fu). All the best to them!

Getting back on topic, I totally agree, humble guy, trains very hard, still trains Shotokan and I hope he stays undefeated for some time !
Also, as part of tradition, drinks his own urine.

 

[Steve]

Am pretty sure I wasn't tying MMA to pancrase, I didn't mention it!
My point was that MMA doesn't equal UFC, there were MMA fights in Brazil before UFC and we had some early ones as well. UFC did the hyping up of it.

Your point was that MMA doesn't equal UFC. The truth is (and you can't change history), that MMA is entirely the creation of a few guys in New Jersey who initially put together what would become a comprehensive ruleset. This was picked up by Zuffa who had just purchased the UFC.

Prior to this, what existed was a blood sport putting on largely unsanctioned, NHB events. As I said, there was certainly plenty of this kind of thing. In the USA, the UFC floundered around for a while. In Japan, even before the first UFC, there were Pancrase events. Vale Tudo had been going on for decades in Brazil. But MMA hadn't even been invented.

In 2001, when the UFC held their first sanctioned event using unified rules, they created the sport of MMA. This sport has spread, largely through the popularity (like it or not) of TUF on free TV. Moving from PPV to free tv was the spark that the UFC needed to move it into mainstream consciousness. The growth of the sport nationwide, including the revival in popularity in the western world of organizations like Pride FC and K1 rests squarely on the success of the UFC.

Point being, prior to 2001, there were NHB events, but they weren't MMA. You, of all people, should understand this, as you continuously point out that MMA is a sport with rules. I agree... and prior to 2001, those rules were largely undefined. Since 2001, they are relatively consistent.

 

[Tez3]

Your point was that MMA doesn't equal UFC. The truth is (and you can't change history), that MMA is entirely the creation of a few guys in New Jersey who initially put together what would become a comprehensive ruleset. This was picked up by Zuffa who had just purchased the UFC.

Prior to this, what existed was a blood sport putting on largely unsanctioned, NHB events. As I said, there was certainly plenty of this kind of thing. In the USA, the UFC floundered around for a while. In Japan, even before the first UFC, there were Pancrase events. Vale Tudo had been going on for decades in Brazil. But MMA hadn't even been invented.

In 2001, when the UFC held their first sanctioned event using unified rules, they created the sport of MMA. This sport has spread, largely through the popularity (like it or not) of TUF on free TV. Moving from PPV to free tv was the spark that the UFC needed to move it into mainstream consciousness. The growth of the sport nationwide, including the revival in popularity in the western world of organizations like Pride FC and K1 rests squarely on the success of the UFC.

Point being, prior to 2001, there were NHB events, but they weren't MMA. You, of all people, should understand this, as you continuously point out that MMA is a sport with rules. I agree... and prior to 2001, those rules were largely undefined. Since 2001, they are relatively consistent.

My point usually is that people use 'UFC' to mean MMA which isn't correct whoever started it. There's no such style as UFC. MMA is the sport and UFC is the promotion.
You're very lucky if you get any MMA on freeview, we have to pay to everything.

This is probably very small on the world scene but in 1997 Lee Hasdell held the UKs first MMA fight night in Milton Keynes, followed by quite a few more. Ok who and where I hear you asking but it's true we were there. small but very good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Hasdell

Our club started training in MMA in 1999.

 

[Shinobi Teikiatsu]

K-krotty is back?

Also, guys, stop getting Tez all riled up.

 

[Tez3]

K-krotty is back?

Also, guys, stop getting Tez all riled up.

:lol: thank you kind sir!

 

[Shinobi Teikiatsu]

Afterall, we all know that MMA is lame. ;D

(Just kidding, you know I love you)

 

[Domino]

Go drink some urine dude

 

[Shinobi Teikiatsu]

I do. Because it's sterile and I like the taste

(kudos to whoever gets that)

 

[Steve]

My point usually is that people use 'UFC' to mean MMA which isn't correct whoever started it. There's no such style as UFC. MMA is the sport and UFC is the promotion.
You're very lucky if you get any MMA on freeview, we have to pay to everything.

This is probably very small on the world scene but in 1997 Lee Hasdell held the UKs first MMA fight night in Milton Keynes, followed by quite a few more. Ok who and where I hear you asking but it's true we were there. small but very good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Hasdell

Our club started training in MMA in 1999.

It's kind of like having a dickish brother. Try as you might to distance yourself from him, he'll always be a dick and he'll always be your brother.

In the same way, the UFC is inextricably tied to the founding of modern MMA, the growth of the sport internationally and the institutionalization of a common ruleset.

 

[mendozahoney]

I love karate in the movie and in demonstration...
learning it is a different story.

Good discipline though.

 

[chaos1551]

I do. Because it's sterile and I like the taste

(kudos to whoever gets that)

Dodgeball.

I love watching MMA fights. It's a sport. We do light contact in my Kenpo school, but I'm sure folks will be willing to step it up when my beginner's butt is tougher and not a spastic threat to them. I can't wait.

 

[xfighter88]

No! You're correct.

Silentwarrior, MMA fighters don't fight 'karate' nor do they fight any other style other than Mixed Martial Arts. It's what it says it is.

Most of the fighters I know have a TMA as a core style, traditional styles haven't been downgraded in MMA at all, what on earth do people think they are doing. . .playing hockey? No they are using tradtional styles of fighting only mixing them to produce all round skills.
Traditional styles used in MMA and please feel free to add..karate, TKD, TSD, Judo, MT, Aikido, juijitsu (both Japanese and Brazilian), CMAs.

You may want to extend the list of TMA people who have done well to include people like Bas Rutten etc.

Agreed, an alternate topic could be "traditional martial arts by themselves have been downgraded" and rightly so.

 

[sgtmac_46]

No! You're correct.

Silentwarrior, MMA fighters don't fight 'karate' nor do they fight any other style other than Mixed Martial Arts. It's what it says it is.

Most of the fighters I know have a TMA as a core style, traditional styles haven't been downgraded in MMA at all, what on earth do people think they are doing. . .playing hockey? No they are using tradtional styles of fighting only mixing them to produce all round skills.
Traditional styles used in MMA and please feel free to add..karate, TKD, TSD, Judo, MT, Aikido, juijitsu (both Japanese and Brazilian), CMAs.

You may want to extend the list of TMA people who have done well to include people like Bas Rutten etc.

Wrestling and Boxing.........

 

[sgtmac_46]

This gets back to my argument that the UFC is not MMA! UFC is only one promotion though admittedly a high profile one. Everything you have quoted is UFC!
There are a great many other promotions out there and there's a great many MMA fighters too!
The UFC is a promotion that MMA fighters go on, MMA has been around a lot longer than the UFC. Brazialn juijitsu likewise, I would suggest actually that BJJ was the saving of UFC, it would have run out of steam without it.

Even the sport and general rules of 'MMA' have been around for about 3,000 years, though the Greeks called it Pankration............but wrestling, boxing, kicking and submissions haven't really changed much.

 

[sgtmac_46]

It's pretty cool to see a talented mixed martial artist who's main style is Karate. Of course, Machida also trains Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling, and works with muay thai trainers occasionally.

I see Lyoto keeping his title for awhile, he's a very talented fighter.

I have to mention though, Georges St. Pierre hasn't trained Karate in 12 years.

Yeah, gonna bet that if Lyoto walked in sporting only his Karate skills, he wouldn't have fared so well...........just sayin'.........no offense to Karate, but lets not call this a repudiation or confirmation of anything since he's not solely demonstrating his Karate skills in the ring, but a whole host of varied 'MMA' disciplines.......with some Karate peppered in for flavor.

It's a lot like using Bas Rutten to validate Tae Kwon Do........yeah, he has a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, but also quite a lot more than that.